Topic: MSI P35 Neo-F (MS-7360): Computer randomly freezes while playing games (Read 1869 times)

Sebb · « **on:** 01-July-12, 19:44:30 »

Hi there,

I have reached the end of my technical knowledge right now and I'm not even sure if this area of the forum is appropriate. The problem:

While playing higher-end games like Crysis 2, Anno 1404, Mass Effect 2 etc. my computer randomly freezes and the last few milliseconds of sound are being looped on my speakers (kind of like a buzzing sound).
By "freezing" I mean that my computer becomes unresponsive to any action other than pressing the Reset-Button or holding down the Power-Up-Button (no reaction to Ctrl+Alt+Del, Alt+F4, Alt+Tab, no mouse movement... you get it).

There's no exact timing as to when these freezes occur. The fastest freeze happened after less than a minute of playing a game, slowes one (just today after switching to my newer case with better cooling) took about 2 hours.

This freeze only occurs while my System is under load. No freezes while browsing the web, using office programs, listening to music or watching videos.

System Specs:

Mainboard: MSI P35 Neo-F (MSI-7360)
CPU: Intel Core2Quad Q6600 @2.4GHz
RAM: 4x 1GB DDR2-800 Corsair XMS2
Graphics: Gainward GeForce GTX 560 Ti, 1GB GDDR5 VRAM
PSU: Antec High Current Gamer 620W (upgraded from Xilence XP600, 600W)
New CPU Cooler: Arctic Freezer 13 Pro (upgraded from OEM Intel Boxed Cooler)
New Case: Zalman Z9 Plus w/ 4x 120 mm Fans (Upgraded from a Case with only 1x 250mm side Fan)
2 Western Digital HDD (1x 2TB, 1x320 GB)
1 DVD Reader/Burner (unimportant for that error I guess)
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit
2 Screens: 1x 24" Asus VS248H and 1x 21" LG Flatron Wide W2240T

Since this error is bugging me for quite a while now and since this is not the first forum I'm trying to get help from, here's a list of steps i already took to get rid of it, obviously to no good use:

reinstalled games where the freeze occurred
updated all Drivers (including cleaning old versions in safe mode; also tried older drivers)
updated BIOS to v1.A0
Reinstalled Windows
bought new Case and CPU Cooler to improve Air Flow/Cooling
checked Seating of all components (took out, cleaned, reapplied thermal grease where neccessary, re-inserted)
cleaned old case of dust (obviously no problem in the new case, which is 2 days "old")
ran 7 sequences of Memtes86+ without any errors
ran Prime95 without any errors for about 45 Minutes
ran Furmark for 15 Minutes under full load (burn-in test) without any problems, even though my graphics card hit the 100°C frequency-cut level
ran Furmark and Prime95 simultaneously without any problems
took records of component temperatures and system voltages without noticing anything unusual (at least not after i switched to the newer PSU, which is about 1 Month old - yet didn't resolve the problem)
tested with cyclic removal of 1 RAM device to further rule out RAM malfunction
tested with only 2 RAM devices in dual channel mode (Slots 1 and 3)
tried to reduce RAM clock (800 MHz --> 667 MHz) to no avail
checked S.M.A.R.T. values of HDDs, no issues reported
tested without any background programs
raised/lowered voltages to RAM, CPU and Chipset in BIOS to increase logic circuit stability/decrease heat production

I need to mention: After I transferred my system to the new case, i was able to play longer than average compared to my old case. So I am guessing that improper cooling was part of the problem, yet improving cooling obviously didn't resolve it.

Since these freezes are really annoying and nobody could help me resolve this so far, I'm hoping to find some new ways of narrowing down the problem or even getting rid of it here.

Regards
Sebb

Wonkanoby · « **Reply #1 on:** 01-July-12, 20:24:59 »

do you own a house fan if you do remove case side and point it in

and see if this makes it stable

Sebb · « **Reply #2 on:** 01-July-12, 20:52:28 »

Unfotunately I don't.
But I think with my new case that has a significantly better air flow than the last one I can rule out heat problems.

Edit: And running both prime95 and Furmark (1920x1080p, 8xMSAA) simultaneously for 1.5 hours straight seems to confirm that, as Temps peaked at 98°C (GPU), 48°C (RAM), 52-59°C (Cores) while still working normally. Case had a steadily cool 32°C the whole time.

I know, 98°C at the GPU seems pretty high, but that temperature is only reached using FurMark. While playing, I never saw more than ~85°C.

NovJoe · « **Reply #3 on:** 02-July-12, 06:14:22 »

Have you run a chkdsk/f for your HDD?

Sebb · « **Reply #4 on:** 03-July-12, 03:05:52 »

Quote from: NovJoe on 02-July-12, 06:14:22

Have you run a chkdsk/f for your HDD?

Yep, no errors reported (and thus none repaired).

NovJoe · « **Reply #5 on:** 03-July-12, 07:16:32 »

I would suggest that you borrow another GPU to test out.

Sebb · « **Reply #6 on:** 03-July-12, 19:46:53 »

Well, I switched to my actual GPU just last fall after my old one died (GeForce 8800GT) where I had the same problems. I can sure try to find someone with a spare GPU, but I don't think that's the problem. Especially because it went through approx. 2 hours of FurMark without trouble...

NovJoe · « **Reply #7 on:** 05-July-12, 05:58:43 »

Ok, in this case, i still suspect overheating.

One way to test out is to remove your chassis's side panel and using a household fan to blow into the chassis area while you are playing the games. From there, monitor if it still crash or remains stable.

Sebb · « **Reply #8 on:** 05-July-12, 16:45:44 »

Any specific parts I should focus on?

Sebb · « **Reply #9 on:** 09-July-12, 21:24:11 »

I didn't have a household fan so I used a spare computer fan I found in one of my boxes (quite a noisy fellow, that's why I did not use it before), but it didn't resolve the problem.
I tried it in several positions (cooling the voltage regulators, RAMs, NB, SB, GPU) and it crashed every single time. Sometimes I could play for like 2 hours, next time my pc froze less than 5 minutes into the game.

xmad · « **Reply #10 on:** 09-July-12, 21:37:02 »

Do you have a different psu to try one with a few extra 12v amps? That one has 48a which should be barely enough, i think that vid card alone requires a minimum of 500watts. 42ish amps

Try one with a 60 amp rail or so if you can borrow one or something.

Sebb · « **Reply #11 on:** 10-July-12, 01:03:03 »

I just bought this PSU after a recommendation of a member of another forum.
And the data sheet of my GPU says that it needs 335W at max. 335W/12V ~=28A, so enough power should be available.
And I ran more demanding games with a way weaker PSU before without experiencing these troubles.

Plus, the crashes don't even occur under heavy load!
As I said, FurMark runs for hours without any problems, yet my PC freezes at, let's say, 69°C on my GPU, so pretty far away from being a power sink.

I added pictures of the HWMonitor and SpeedFan windows I took with my phone when the last crash occurred. Maybe one of you can see something I'm missing.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/804/imag0182v.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/imag0183l.jpg/

Thanks for all the help so far, I hope we can find this d****d error soon

xmad · « **Reply #12 on:** 10-July-12, 02:03:44 »

It really sounds like something is causing your gpu to muck up. First thought is the psu, could also just be the gpu going up...

Are you able to underclock the gpu and re-test?

Sebb · « **Reply #13 on:** 10-July-12, 02:14:37 »

I'm not familiar with over-/underclocking.

Can you explain how to do it?

Ex Forum Mod · « **Reply #14 on:** 10-July-12, 02:35:37 »

Download Afterburner utility for that. Not too difficult to set clock speeds with it.

Get from here:

http://downloads.guru3d.com/Afterburner-2.2.2-download-2562.html

Bernhard · « **Reply #15 on:** 10-July-12, 07:15:30 »

Quote

Try one with a 60 amp rail or so if you can borrow one or something.

Lets be realistic. A system with a 560TI is recommended to have a around 31Amps under full load, a CX500 would be sufficient.
Have you monitored your CPU and memory utilisation ?
As suggested before, test the GPU in another computer to see if the behaviour is the same.

Ex Forum Mod · « **Reply #16 on:** 10-July-12, 08:37:56 »

Yup, I had P35 Neo-F & P45-Platinum with similar graphics and a Corsair TX450 was used on both of them with no power problems at all.

Sebb · « **Reply #17 on:** 10-July-12, 12:38:43 »

Quote from: Bernhard on 10-July-12, 07:15:30

Lets be realistic. A system with a 560TI is recommended to have a around 31Amps under full load, a CX500 would be sufficient.
Have you monitored your CPU and memory utilisation ?
As suggested before, test the GPU in another computer to see if the behaviour is the same.

Whew, I thought for a second there that my common sense had left me when I saw that 60-Amp-Post ^^

Yes, I monitored CPU and RAM usage, there is no recognizeable pattern to be seen and it almost never happens under full load.
I will see if a friend of mine can test my GPU on his computer, and I will test it underclocked right away.

Though one more question regarding that: Should I only underclock GPU Core Clock or both Core and RAM clock?

Ex Forum Mod · « **Reply #18 on:** 10-July-12, 23:36:48 »

Core clock, if no change them you can try the memory clock. Either way only do one or the other at a time or you will never know where the problem could be.

Sebb · « **Reply #19 on:** 11-July-12, 04:09:34 »

I lowered the core clock by 100 MHz (900-->800) yet still got a freeze - and my GPU fan was loud as hell. Was that enough/too much underclocking?
When I try the vRAM clock tomorrow, by what value should I reduce it? Afterburner shows me 2100 MHz at the moment.

Sebb · « **Reply #20 on:** 12-July-12, 23:16:50 »

I lowered RAM clock from 2100 MHz to 2000 MHz and was able to play a little longer (at least that's how it felt), but that might just have been a random anomaly because as I said, the freezes don't seem to be time-related. Plus, I did some breaks inbetween (pause, switch to desktop etc) though the game was still open in background.

Also, on a (probably) unrelated topic: I have connected a 120 mm fan to Sysfan1 on my mainboard that should be a PWM fan controller, yet I can't find an option to set it's default speed, meaning that fan runs at 100% all the time. Could anyone explain how to lower that fan's speed?

xmad · « **Reply #21 on:** 13-July-12, 20:16:57 »

Were you able to install the gpu into another computer to test it?

Sebb · « **Reply #22 on:** 15-July-12, 23:28:07 »

Not yet, and I won't be able to for at least a week. I'll get back here as soon as I could test it.
Any other suggestions I can try in the meantime?

Sebb · « **Reply #23 on:** 24-July-12, 01:20:46 »

Fortunately I found the warranty paper to my GPU and had it sent back for replacement, just in case.

After that I "cured" my older GPU (GeForce NX8800 GT) by baking it in the oven and I have had no crashes so far. I only did it today, so this might just be a coincidence, but I'll keep monitoring it and will report back when crashes occurr with my 8800 or when I have tested the replaced 560 Ti - whatever comes first.

Thanks for all the help!

xmad · « **Reply #24 on:** 24-July-12, 01:27:57 »

Keep our fingers crossed, let us know when you try out the repaired card.

Sebb · « **Reply #25 on:** 04-September-12, 15:44:55 »

Well well, let's see...

Yesterday I received my substitute graphics card and - of course - plugged it in ASAP. I've been playing some hours of Guild Wars 2 afterwards with no issues and today I'll give Crysis 2 another shot (pun pun).
As said, I still have to verify system integrity with high-end games, though the fact that before the substitution I was only able to play seconds of Guild Wars 2 before crashing leaves me confident that my issues have been resolved.

Yet I already miss the silence of my older GPU

Thanks everyone for the help!

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Author Topic: MSI P35 Neo-F (MS-7360): Computer randomly freezes while playing games (Read 1869 times)