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Author Topic: R7 1700 w/ MSI Tomahawk & "3200mhz" RAM  (Read 1840 times)

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rjambiTopic starter

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R7 1700 w/ MSI Tomahawk & "3200mhz" RAM
« on: 29-July-17, 11:56:36 »

Specs:
Ryzen 7 1700
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16W) @ 2933Mhz 14 - 16 - 16 - 16 - 36 - 52 @ 1.36v
1050Ti
Asus 248qe 144hz LCD

I have the newest beta bios installed according to these forums (1.71) and I've also tried almost all of them with no luck. I say almost because I gave up on a few of the ones in between I tried at least 4 of the 7 beta bioses available with similar results so I decided to go back to the newest one and hope the next release allows me to get to 3200mhz. Although it seems I am not alone with this kit as many like myself are stuck at 2933Mhz. I booted one time at 3000 but it took 3 retries and has yet to be repeated. I am happy with the way my ram is handling the 14 CAS @ 2933. It shows the memory has the potential, but MSI remember... almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, we aint playin either.
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R7 1700 @ 4Ghz 
Corsair LPX 3200 @ 2933 14-16-16-16-36
GTX 1050 Ti
Samsung 850 EVO 250Gb
Win10 x64 CU

agouraki

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« Reply #1 on: 29-July-17, 12:41:00 »

try 1.5 bios,i got exactly the same  memory and it works at 3200 mhz with it,if i flash any newer BIOS strangely i cant go above 2993 either..... use XMP or msi memory try it.
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darkhawk

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« Reply #2 on: 29-July-17, 12:53:37 »

Specs:
Ryzen 7 1700
16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16W) @ 2933Mhz 14 - 16 - 16 - 16 - 36 - 52 @ 1.36v
1050Ti
Asus 248qe 144hz LCD

I have the newest beta bios installed according to these forums (1.71) and I've also tried almost all of them with no luck. I say almost because I gave up on a few of the ones in between I tried at least 4 of the 7 beta bioses available with similar results so I decided to go back to the newest one and hope the next release allows me to get to 3200mhz. Although it seems I am not alone with this kit as many like myself are stuck at 2933Mhz. I booted one time at 3000 but it took 3 retries and has yet to be repeated. I am happy with the way my ram is handling the 14 CAS @ 2933. It shows the memory has the potential, but MSI remember... almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, we aint playin either.

Threats are meaningless, especially ones like this, and especially here. It's meaningless. You might wanna go read this again : >>Please read and comply with the Forum Rules.<<

That being said, everyone is quite aware that AMD is still working on memory compatibility, and that it has been getting better over time. Most users with memory like yours have hit the same 3200 MHz wall like you, where they can't get 3200 MHz but can get 2933 MHz. It's a fairly common issue, and some users have seen success trying speeds higher than 3200 MHz.
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rjambiTopic starter

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« Reply #3 on: 30-July-17, 11:47:12 »

Threats? Could you explain to me what you are talking about?
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R7 1700 @ 4Ghz 
Corsair LPX 3200 @ 2933 14-16-16-16-36
GTX 1050 Ti
Samsung 850 EVO 250Gb
Win10 x64 CU

rjambiTopic starter

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« Reply #4 on: 30-July-17, 11:49:16 »

Yes they truly are meaningless, especially when non existent. The only threat I see after rereading my post several times, is the perceived one within your mind because it didn't exist in text. I said I was quite happy with how my ram was running.. what gives?
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R7 1700 @ 4Ghz 
Corsair LPX 3200 @ 2933 14-16-16-16-36
GTX 1050 Ti
Samsung 850 EVO 250Gb
Win10 x64 CU

darkhawk

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« Reply #5 on: 30-July-17, 12:27:01 »

almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, we aint playin either.
Take it how you want, it's is perceived as a threat. 

Adjust your attitude. Period.

You've been warned. Twice now.
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jm8780

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« Reply #6 on: 31-July-17, 12:44:05 »

Take it how you want, it's is perceived as a threat.

Adjust your attitude. Period.

You've been warned. Twice now.

Just a heads up Darkhawk - "Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades" is a common idiom.  It means that getting close to your target doesn't count except in those two situations.  He wasn't making a threat.
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kool64_64

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« Reply #7 on: 31-July-17, 12:54:40 »

Chances are your memory is of they Hynix variety. I'm noticing CAS 16 memory from many brands has been coming up as Hynix. AMD is notoriously bad at supporting higher speed Hynix memory. The issues you are having are not related to MSI or the motherboard. It's the AGESA microcode from AMD that's causing the issues. It's been getting significantly better even in the last two months since I've bought my board memory and CPU. If you really want the 3200 speed you may have to return( if you can) that memory and look into purchasing known Samsung B Die memory. Even then the speed is not 100% guaranteed past the officially supported by AMD speeds.
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Ryzen 5 1600X
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32 GB G.Skill 3200 CL 16 @2800
Gigabyte GTX 1070

wholderby9620

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« Reply #8 on: 02-August-17, 06:09:51 »

I'm with you OP.

I will never get another MSI board again and I say that with no malice but plenty of disappointment. It is crazy to still use the excuse of "Ryzen still has memory issues" when a microcode update was put out to give the board makers more control over the timings/settings for improved compatibility. Can anyone explain to me why my exact processor/LPX3200 spd memory works just fine on an Asus motherboard but still cant pass 2933 on MSI? I suspect it may be due to the fact that by the time the new microcode came out MSI had their best engineers start working on x299 etc. I don't see any effort on MSI's part to get this fixed and further proof is more than half of the added timings etc don't even have a description on them.

I am not attacking any moderator on here so don't take it that way. I am fully aware that you all do not work for MSI, but that is part of the fundamental issue here. Once i logged onto Asus's forums and saw an actual Asus engineer(or at least a "Sales Engineer") ask the forum's for feedback and give detailed updates while we are here downloading bios's without a clue to what they actually should improve lol. Never will i make this mistake again.
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legztec

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« Reply #9 on: 02-August-17, 10:05:23 »

I own a X370 krait gaming and corsair 3200 ([font=arial, helvetica, "Liberation Sans", sans-serif]CMK16GX4M2B3200C16[/font][/color][/url]) and have the exact same problem.
I chose MSI because in the QVL this memory was rated as working on 3200 but on the updated QVL its down to 2400???!

After reading this my next motherboard won't be MSI either. In fact my next purchase will be a videocard and i'll won't even consider MSI anymore.
I'll stick to Asus/Asrock in the future.
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justinkerber

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« Reply #10 on: 04-August-17, 04:06:59 »

I'm with you OP.

I will never get another MSI board again and I say that with no malice but plenty of disappointment. It is crazy to still use the excuse of "Ryzen still has memory issues" when a microcode update was put out to give the board makers more control over the timings/settings for improved compatibility.

I'm running a B350 Tomahawk, I don't post much anymore because it's super stable on BIOS 1.62 for me.  I have been running 3200 MHZ on this exact RAM for, like, the entire time...  I had to go to extraordinary lengths to get my ram to run stable, however.  I have my RAM overvolted to 1.5V because everyone who over clocks should know that no two pieces of silicon are the same.  That being said, my best friend bought the same board and is running the same RAM at 2933, however, he is unwilling to follow AMD's directives on how to get RAM to stably overclock to 3200MHZ.  I have spent days tweaking my bios and trying everything to get it to work flawless.  

Can anyone explain to me why my exact processor/LPX3200 spd memory works just fine on an Asus motherboard but still cant pass 2933 on MSI? I suspect it may be due to the fact that by the time the new microcode came out MSI had their best engineers start working on x299 etc. I don't see any effort on MSI's part to get this fixed and further proof is more than half of the added timings etc don't even have a description on them.

If you are rocking both motherboards and you know this from personal experience, then cool.  If that ASUS board is a B350, 100 buck motherboard, I could see that.  If it's their top of the line board... not so much.  The Tomahawk is cheap, that was my choice, I don't need more than 16 lanes for my 1080TI.  Mileage will vary, I got lucky.  There is something to the rush to get B350's to the market and there's some commentary that QC just wasn't there for them.  I've not experienced it, but I know someone who has.    

I am not attacking any moderator on here so don't take it that way. I am fully aware that you all do not work for MSI, but that is part of the fundamental issue here. Once i logged onto Asus's forums and saw an actual Asus engineer(or at least a "Sales Engineer") ask the forum's for feedback and give detailed updates while we are here downloading bios's without a clue to what they actually should improve lol. Never will i make this mistake again.

You're insulting some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure of talking to.  As I recall the moderators here are forum moderators, not hardware engineers.  They are enthusiasts, just like you and me.  This is a community and we back one another up, we test the BIOS updates and report back on our findings.  If you want detailed information, download a stable release. Don't download a BETA release.

Everyone needs to have more patience.  Honestly, the platform is in it's infancy and there's a lot of tweaking and work that goes into stably running your RAM, your processor and such at max speeds.  The 1700 has a hard limit of 4 GHZ on water.  4.1+ can be run for a while but weird stuff starts happening.

If you wanted a more guaranteed memory overclock you should have gone with an 1700X or 1800X with a 300 dollar+ Motherboard.  They are the best possible chance to get the highest overclocks on all fronts.  
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wholderby9620

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« Reply #11 on: 04-August-17, 05:41:05 »

Your first two points are valid although I disagree to a certain extent. I am not saying "I bought 3200 memory and it NEEDS to work at 3200 or else this board is a failure". I am fully aware of no 2 pieces of silicon being the same, my issue is with the seemingly lack of effort(Since x299) by MSI to address this in any way shape or form. By "address" i dont mean FIX, i mean say anything in regards to whether we should expect compatibility or not. If anyone in the know came out and said "this will never work, sorry" then thats that and i wouldnt worry about it. Instead, we are waiting on the next bios to test and see if its the one to get it stable only to see nothing involving memory has changed.

 Like i said, i truly was not attacking the moderators here. I see the BS they deal with and I am truly grateful for all their hard work. My disappointment is not with them, as i stated already, it is with MSI.
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xfxp1384

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« Reply #12 on: 04-August-17, 09:53:29 »

@justinkerber
Quote
I'm running a B350 Tomahawk, I don't post much anymore because it's super stable on BIOS 1.62 for me.  I have been running 3200 MHZ on this exact RAM for, like, the entire time...  I had to go to extraordinary lengths to get my ram to run stable, however.  I have my RAM overvolted to 1.5V because everyone who over clocks should know that no two pieces of silicon are the same.  That being said, my best friend bought the same board and is running the same RAM at 2933, however, he is unwilling to follow AMD's directives on how to get RAM to stably overclock to 3200MHZ.  I have spent days tweaking my bios and trying everything to get it to work flawless.  

So basically you're saying that you're using the same ram as mine (version 5.39) and got 3200Mhz on the beta 1.62? Weird, I was able to boot w/ 3200Mhz at least once or twice on every single beta since 1.6x till 1.72, but not more than 3 times. So I got stuck with 2933 mhz for now. I know the older version (4.x if I memory serves right) can do 3200Mhz without an issue though. Ah I forgot that your voltage is 1.5v, I never tried it higher than 1.4v so far.
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CPU : AMD RYZEN R7 1700 3.7Ghz (1.18v, NB 0.9v)
M/B : MSI B350 TOMAHAWK (7A34), BIOS v1.91 Beta
RAM : Corsair Vengeance LPX 8Gb x 2, Dual Channel 3200 Mhz  
          (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16) (SK Hynix, M-die v5.39) @3200Mhz
VGA : EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 SC GAMING
SSD : SAMSUNG 830 PRO 256GB
HDD : Toshiba 3TB, 5TB and WD 1TB
PSU : Corsair RM750x

jm8780

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« Reply #13 on: 04-August-17, 13:56:43 »

Isn't 1.5v over the recommended max voltage for most DDR4?  I could swear that 1.4v was the max and anything more than that was not supposed to be for daily use.  Did I misread that memo?
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darkhawk

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« Reply #14 on: 04-August-17, 15:23:37 »

Isn't 1.5v over the recommended max voltage for most DDR4?  I could swear that 1.4v was the max and anything more than that was not supposed to be for daily use.  Did I misread that memo?

There isn't really a spec for DDR4. Most manufacturer's only spec the nominal voltage (1.35V or 1.3V) and don't give a maximum spec.

It's well known that DDR4 is fine at up to 1.5V. I wouldn't go any higher than that, personally.

I wouldn't generally even go up to that, I try to keep it at 1.45V max.
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jm8780

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« Reply #15 on: 05-August-17, 01:08:58 »

Hmmm - perhaps 1.45v and I can run stable at 3200.  Damn it, now I want to start messing around again.
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M/B: MSI XPower Gaming Titanium x370
CPU: Ryzen 1700 @ 3700MHz 
Cooling: Kraken X62
RAM: 16gb (8x2) TridentZ 3200 (14-14-14-34, 1T) 
Video Card: PowerColor RX480 8gb
PSU: VGA 850g Supernova Gold PSU 
Case: Anidees AI Crystal White
Samsung EVO 850 250GB
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Western Digital Black 500GB
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rjambiTopic starter

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« Reply #16 on: 05-August-17, 19:25:53 »

Just a heads up Darkhawk - "Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades" is a common idiom.  It means that getting close to your target doesn't count except in those two situations.  He wasn't making a threat.
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R7 1700 @ 4Ghz 
Corsair LPX 3200 @ 2933 14-16-16-16-36
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darkhawk

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« Reply #17 on: 05-August-17, 22:39:44 »

You're really going to continue this after getting temporarily banned (not by me, surprisingly.....)?
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justinkerber

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« Reply #18 on: 06-August-17, 07:40:37 »

Isn't 1.5v over the recommended max voltage for most DDR4?  I could swear that 1.4v was the max and anything more than that was not supposed to be for daily use.  Did I misread that memo?
Direct from AMD this video is from their lead Engineer.  They tell you everything you need to know about how to push your RAM to it's limits.  It's a very good video.  Helped me push my system to it's limits, stably.  



1.5V on DDR4 is not bad.  I have been running the entire time on this now and it's rock solid.
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me

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« Reply #19 on: 11-August-17, 04:01:11 »

You're really going to continue this after getting temporarily banned (not by me, surprisingly.....)?

Something needs to be said here. 

darkhawk, you are being ridiculous. People don't need to be banned because you don't understand a popular saying from where they're from. Nobody was making threats, and a 10 second google search would tell you that.

I know you're a long time moderator, maybe even an MSI employee, but I'm archiving this thread, and contacting MSI. You're abusing your moderator powers and they need to know about it. 
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jm8780

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« Reply #20 on: 11-August-17, 13:09:19 »

While I agree that a ban of any length over that comment is heavy handed, A) darkhawk didn't ban him (though he seems not to disagree with it) and B) We don't know what other issues there may have been.  If that was the sole comment of concern and he got a temp ban, I'd expect that Darkhawn would have simply apologized for the misunderstanding and both parties could have moved on.  I can't imagine that's the case. There had to have been something else going on here.  

Then again perhaps we'll never know and, in the end, it won't matter.   

PS - The mods are just like us, enthusiasts.  System builders.  Overclockers.  Gamers.  They don't work for MSI and don't get paid. They do this because they want to, not because they have to.  They aren't perfect and they don't claim to be.  With the exception of this particular issue, they do a fantastic job of supporting our hobby.
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« Reply #21 on: 11-August-17, 13:14:13 »

While I agree that a ban of any length over that comment is heavy handed, A) darkhawk didn't ban him (though he seems not to disagree with it) and B) We don't know what other issues there may have been.  If that was the sole comment of concern and he got a temp ban, I'd expect that Darkhawn would have simply apologized for the misunderstanding and both parties could have moved on.  I can't imagine that's the case. There had to have been something else going on here.  

Then again perhaps we'll never know and, in the end, it won't matter.  

PS - The mods are just like us, enthusiasts.  System builders.  Overclockers.  Gamers.  They don't work for MSI and don't get paid. They do this because they want to, not because they have to.  They aren't perfect and they don't claim to be.  With the exception of this particular issue, they do a fantastic job of supporting our hobby.

I understand that the mods in most case are enthusiasts, but since darkhawk posts so many BIOS and other seemingly inside information, I didn't know if they were an MSI employee as well. I've already e-mailed MSI internally to let them know about it, because if people are acting unreasonably, they don't need to be moderators. 

I did misread that the first time, and thought that darkhawk did the ban, but regardless, they're on a power trip and not being reasonable. It happens a lot with forum moderators, and I've been guilty of it before too. Doesn't mean that we need to overlook it or let it go.
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badboy2k

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« Reply #22 on: 11-August-17, 13:36:04 »

I understand that the mods in most case are enthusiasts, but since darkhawk posts so many BIOS and other seemingly inside information, I didn't know if they were an MSI employee as well. I've already e-mailed MSI internally to let them know about it, because if people are acting unreasonably, they don't need to be moderators. I did misread that the first time, and thought that darkhawk did the ban, but regardless, they're on a power trip and not being reasonable. It happens a lot with forum moderators, and I've been guilty of it before too. Doesn't mean that we need to overlook it or let it go.

no moderator here works for MSI and we all are like jm8780 said enthusiasts who like to help out people who need help!

we do have the ability to get Beta BIOS versions as they are needed to help users so we have to be able to have them or it would be a constant string of us telling everyone to just contact MSI to get them which gets old very fast and its that way just to save time and make it more streamlined!

so having access to Beta BIOS version means nothing and you are reading too much into that. i can understand you thinking its odd but your making assumptions of things that do not exist.
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OS: Windows7 professional SP1 64bit (OEM)
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70 (bios 1.17) AM3
Processor:AMD phenom IIx4 955 black edition 3.2GHz processor(Clock speed of 4GHz)
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« Reply #23 on: 11-August-17, 19:46:52 »

no moderator here works for MSI and we all are like jm8780 said enthusiasts who like to help out people who need help!

we do have the ability to get Beta BIOS versions as they are needed to help users so we have to be able to have them or it would be a constant string of us telling everyone to just contact MSI to get them which gets old very fast and its that way just to save time and make it more streamlined!

so having access to Beta BIOS version means nothing and you are reading too much into that. i can understand you thinking its odd but your making assumptions of things that do not exist.

I never said it was odd, and I made no assumptions. You're putting words in my mouth. If you re-read the entire thread, you'll see that I said:

I know you're a long time moderator, maybe even an MSI employee

I even stepped back and admitted that I misread the comment and thought that darkhawk did the ban. Never the less, they seem to support it, and are hinting that further action will happen if their authority is questioned. Someone like that shouldn't be a moderator, and that's the crux of the issue. You seem more concerned with semantics than the actual issue.

MSI has already been contacted. I'll let them decide how to handle it, because your forum moderators are banning people for irrational reasons. No resolution is going to come from this thread unless darkhawk gets the moderators responsible for the temp ban to apologize for the misunderstanding.
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justinkerber

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« Reply #24 on: 12-August-17, 19:33:47 »

I never said it was odd, and I made no assumptions. You're putting words in my mouth. If you re-read the entire thread, you'll see that I said:

I even stepped back and admitted that I misread the comment and thought that darkhawk did the ban. Never the less, they seem to support it, and are hinting that further action will happen if their authority is questioned. Someone like that shouldn't be a moderator, and that's the crux of the issue. You seem more concerned with semantics than the actual issue.

MSI has already been contacted. I'll let them decide how to handle it, because your forum moderators are banning people for irrational reasons. No resolution is going to come from this thread unless darkhawk gets the moderators responsible for the temp ban to apologize for the misunderstanding.
You have posted... what?  Like 5 times?  How can you make that kind of judgement call when you're not even active in working with the online community?

There are rules and regulations on any online forum.  When we violate those rules we get banned.  No one is exempt from that.  This thread no longer seems to care about anything related to getting a 1700 Ryzen and your memory to 3200Mhz... This thread should either be locked or simply deleted all together. 

The Moderators on this forum have been nothing but helpful to me and everyone else here.  The action you've taken is appalling.
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« Reply #25 on: 12-August-17, 21:44:22 »

There are rules and regulations on any online forum.  When we violate those rules we get banned.  No one is exempt from that.  

Nobody broke the rules. That's the point here. For some reason a mod took the idiom "horseshoes and hand grenades" out of context, and thought they were being threatened. Nobody was threatened. No rules were broken.

I'm just trying to stand up for someone who did nothing wrong. What's so appalling about that?

You're right though. This thread should be locked. There's nothing more productive that will come from it. I was just hoping that the mods would see how silly of a mistake they made, and at least apologize.
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darkhawk

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« Reply #26 on: 14-August-17, 00:17:37 »

Say what you want, think what you want.
We have rules. They were linked to reinforce what this community is about. If you don't like the rules, sorry, but they are what they are.
If you can't clearly explain yourself, you need to understand that others will see your 'text' as other things, much as I did. Whether you like it or not, that's how it is. I reinforced the rules. I did NOT ban him.

Another moderator felt that the excessive posting that followed by the user warranted a ban. The rules were linked, they were then broken further KNOWINGLY after having just had them linked to them, personally. What is not to understand here? We warned first (see my first post).
Even if that first post was taken incorrectly, continuing the argument about context doesn't further 1) the discussion to solving the problem, 2) Helping any other users with the problem 3) follow the rules and guidelines of the forum.

All it does is further your ego beyond what it clearly should be. 

The conversation could have simply continued with an explanation further of the technical problems, or discussions in reply to the text AFTER my rules and guidelines reinforcement. 

Instead, the user focused entirely on the rules and guidelines and continued a completely pointless conversation that resulted in further actions by other moderators that felt the user was out of control.

Simply put, we do our best here to work with users and provide the best support that we possibly can. This can be seen across the forum in many posts, going way out of our way to help users. Even when they are unruly and don't wish to follow the rules and guidelines that they fully accepted when they created accounts here.
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