5800X3D Undervolting / Negative C.O. Settings

bcbrowne57

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You can try this new beta bios:
which has additional vcore offset, PBO and curve optimizer:
View attachment 160331View attachment 160332View attachment 160333View attachment 160334View attachment 160335View attachment 160336
Note: However MSI people do not recommend to modify any settings regarding CPU overclocking!
Thank you! Think I'll wait till it appears on the regular support page, but am downloading it now just in case they change their minds. :)
 

bcbrowne57

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Well my patience ran out and I flashed the .AD3 BIOS today. After several hours of tinkering I think MSI is on the right track, but there are a few issues.

In my system, setting PBO is any position except "disabled" led to really high temps during testing; e.g. running Cinebench 23 multi-core, the CPU immediately shot up to 84C and peaked at 88. "Safe" perhaps, but I am not at all comfortable with that. And that was AFTER setting my Curve Optimization to nearly -30 on each core. The "Advanced" option for the PPT, TDC and EDC "PBO Limits" that should have allowed me to moderate the thermals is "manual" -- so I could lower the stock PPT and/or EDC -- but there is no "manual" in the menu here; only auto, "motherboard" and "disabled." My understanding is that either of the latter options will effectively RAISE the stock limits... not something I want with the CPU already throttling in the high 80s. FWIW the 1.2.0.6(c) BIOS DID have the ability to lower (but not raise) PPT, TDC and EDC individually.

Another possible option to lower the Package Power Limit -- under the CBS menu -- has zero apparent effect unless PBO is disabled.

Finally, the option to set max boost (above 4450/4550) IS THERE, but when I tried any setting (even 25 Mhz which is the lowest possible), the result was that the CPU did not boost AT ALL... stayed at 35-3600 Mhz at all times regardless of load. That's definitely a bug of some kind.

Bottom line is I'm still tweaking the settings to try and equal the performance I had with MSI's AGESA 1.2.0.6(c) BIOS plus PBO2 Tuner. Will continue testing tomorrow.
 

Astennu

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You can try this new beta bios:
which has additional vcore offset, PBO and curve optimizer:
View attachment 160331View attachment 160332View attachment 160333View attachment 160334View attachment 160335View attachment 160336
Note: However MSI people do not recommend to modify any settings regarding CPU overclocking!
Seems this bios file is now removed?
Was it giving problems? or did AMD ask to remove it?

Because i still dont see any harm in allowing undervolting. Would even be better to prolong the lifespan of the CPU since they are all thermal throtteling when running multi core workloads.
 

Astennu

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Except Asus motherboard owners all have voltage control right now. And have shown 20-40c difference in CPU temps. I'd rather have the option...
Exactly this. Temps are quite a bit lower if you undervolt it. And they still run stable.
And yes we know we can run in stability issues when we do that thats been the case since the dawn of tweaking.
 

Bloot

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bcbrowne57

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Well my patience ran out and I flashed the .AD3 BIOS today. After several hours of tinkering I think MSI is on the right track, but there are a few issues.

In my system, setting PBO is any position except "disabled" led to really high temps during testing; e.g. running Cinebench 23 multi-core, the CPU immediately shot up to 84C and peaked at 88. "Safe" perhaps, but I am not at all comfortable with that. And that was AFTER setting my Curve Optimization to nearly -30 on each core. The "Advanced" option for the PPT, TDC and EDC "PBO Limits" that should have allowed me to moderate the thermals is "manual" -- so I could lower the stock PPT and/or EDC -- but there is no "manual" in the menu here; only auto, "motherboard" and "disabled." My understanding is that either of the latter options will effectively RAISE the stock limits... not something I want with the CPU already throttling in the high 80s. FWIW the 1.2.0.6(c) BIOS DID have the ability to lower (but not raise) PPT, TDC and EDC individually.

Another possible option to lower the Package Power Limit -- under the CBS menu -- has zero apparent effect unless PBO is disabled.

Finally, the option to set max boost (above 4450/4550) IS THERE, but when I tried any setting (even 25 Mhz which is the lowest possible), the result was that the CPU did not boost AT ALL... stayed at 35-3600 Mhz at all times regardless of load. That's definitely a bug of some kind.

Bottom line is I'm still tweaking the settings to try and equal the performance I had with MSI's AGESA 1.2.0.6(c) BIOS plus PBO2 Tuner. Will continue testing tomorrow.
UPDATE: I eventually found a way to enable PBO without causing very high temps. Combining PBO "Enabled" with the aforementioned CO settings, plus a 0.1 Volt negative offset and LLC Mode 5 led to decent performance along with more reasonable temps: highs in low 80s during CB23 multi-core or Aida 64 System Stability Test. The remaining issues are (1) inability to raise the max boost frequency (even 4600 Mhz without any BCLK tomfoolery would be a psychological victory), and (2) inability to reduce PPT/TDC/EDC in order to further control temps.

I also found that I can't lower max PPT by using the PBO2 Tuner app, as some kind of bug causes the motherboard to report the PPT limit as "0 Watts." Ryzen Master also shows zero. According to my Aida 64 Sensor Panel, actual "CPU Package Power" usage is about 110 to 112W under high load, with a peak VCORE of about 1.17V. On AGESA 1.2.0.6(c) BIOS 7C35vAC, one can adjust (downwards only) the PPT/TDC/EDC values in the AMD Overclocking section. I lowered the PPT to 105W, which yielded a max of about 1.15V During CB23 multicore runs. This seemingly small difference gave me max temps in the high 70s AND slightly higher benchmark scores. This chip thrives on low voltage! On my 5600X, combining aggressive negative CO values with an undervolt (let alone PBO) would never have been stable... probably wouldn't even POST.

I may give the revised beta (".AD0" vs. AD3) a try within the next couple of days.
 
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citay

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Interesting that they went from .AD3 to .AD0 (not AD4) ... anyone know if that's normal? I may give it a try. About to update my earlier comments on AD3.
.AD0 will be the stable version of the .AD1, .AD2, .AD3... beta versions. I have explained that unusual beta BIOS version numbering of MSI here before.
 

bcbrowne57

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They updated with this one https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tb7FJsn3K82hU9muEKNBpFW95lUIp82y/view

I suppose it has all the options AD3 had (CO, PBO, SMT, Offset) but I don't know as I don't own this board.

Still X570 Unify only.
PSA: This x570 Unify BIOS (AD0) includes NO Curve Optimizer and NO PBO. It also lacks the ability to adjust PPT/TDC/EDC limits.

The only good news here is that the baseline CPU voltage appears to have been adjusted downward. Using PBO2 Tuner again, simply applying my curve optimizer settings has resulted in decent performance without excessive heat. I will stick with this for the time being, but if you own the X570 Unify and enjoy fine-tuning your system, you're better off sticking with the original AD3 beta.
 

Bloot

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PSA: This x570 Unify BIOS (AD0) includes NO Curve Optimizer and NO PBO. It also lacks the ability to adjust PPT/TDC/EDC limits.

The only good news here is that the baseline CPU voltage appears to have been adjusted downward. Using PBO2 Tuner again, simply applying my curve optimizer settings has resulted in decent performance without excessive heat. I will stick with this for the time being, but if you own the X570 Unify and enjoy fine-tuning your system, you're better off sticking with the original AD3 beta.
Why would they remove the AD3 bios with undervolt and all the useful stuff (SMT on/off, PBO)? Maybe they changed their mind and won't let undervolt, adjust SMT, PBO and CO in the end? I was about to switch boards but with the news of this beta bios I was hoping it was coming for my B550 tomahawk too...
 

bcbrowne57

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In retrospect, and with the benefit of citay's explanation above, I think the "AD0" BIOS is functionally identical to the final "AD" version that's on the MSI's official X570 Unify support page. We can only hope that MSI will offer us some of the AD3's capabilities (minus the rough edges) in the future.
 

Bloot

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They have released a bios with kombo strike (anybody knows what is this?) and offset voltage for the b550 gaming edge, it's basically the exact same board as my b550 tomahawk except they swapped one ethernet port for a wi-fi module, I can't believe they did not release it for the tomahawk too (I'm asking for these features since april lol).

I am tired of waiting and should have switched boards when I was about to do, and I think that's what I'll do this weekend.
 

Alan J T

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They have released a bios with kombo strike (anybody knows what is this?) and offset voltage for the b550 gaming edge, it's basically the exact same board as my b550 tomahawk except they swapped one ethernet port for a wi-fi module, I can't believe they did not release it for the tomahawk too (I'm asking for these features since april lol).

I am tired of waiting and should have switched boards when I was about to do, and I think that's what I'll do this weekend.
Following BIOS have been released for R7 5800X3D CPU Under volt
7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE WIFI
7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE MAX WIFI
7C91 MPG B550 GAMING EDGE WIFI
7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY-X
7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY
Avail form the MSI Moderator Bios site
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/msi-forum-moderator-tool-space-–-bios-software.374208/post-2131807
Code named KOMBO STRIKE Bios :unsure::unsure:
I have queried this

More BIOS for other boards will be released as they become Available
 
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Bloot

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Following BIOS have been released for R7 5800X3D CPU Under volt
7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE WIFI
7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE MAX WIFI
7C91 MPG B550 GAMING EDGE WIFI
7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY-X
7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY
Avail form the MSI Moderator Bios site
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/msi-forum-moderator-tool-space-–-bios-software.374208/post-2131807
Code named KOMBO STRIKE Bios :unsure::unsure:
I have queried this

More BIOS for other boards will be released as they become Available
Yeah I know they released it for the B550 Gaming Edge, it's not fair they did not release it for the Tomahawk too imho, becasue it's the exact same board, it would be so easy to release the bios for the two boards at the same time as they always have done (because I repeat again, they are the same board except for the extra lan on the tomahawk and the wi-fi on the gaming edge). But no, this time they only released it for one of them. I have the feeling of having an excellent cpu on a very good motherboard that does not let me fine tune it for better temps, and I've been waiting for this to change for more than 2 months, I think it's a reasonable amount of time waiting. I don't know when I would win the lottery, maybe next week or maybe i'd had to wait another couple of months, but I'm tired of waiting.

I already ordered another motherboard (from another vendor), this situation pushed me to do it. It's been a pleasure being part of this forums, keep up the good work here.

Thanks.
 

Astennu

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Following BIOS have been released for R7 5800X3D CPU Under volt
7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE WIFI
7C92 MPG B550I GAMING EDGE MAX WIFI
7C91 MPG B550 GAMING EDGE WIFI
7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY-X
7D13 MEG B550 UNIFY
Avail form the MSI Moderator Bios site
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/msi-forum-moderator-tool-space-–-bios-software.374208/post-2131807
Code named KOMBO STRIKE Bios :unsure::unsure:
I have queried this

More BIOS for other boards will be released as they become Available
I have tested the latest bios for the MSI B550 Gaming Edge Wifi that has UV options and the Kombo Strike feature.
But it cannot beat the 1.2.0.6C bios with BCLK OC. Where that old BIOS is stable the new one is not.
UV lowers performance because the CPU is not boosting that high anymore. Kombo Strike can offset that but overall the performance is still a lot lower.
With both stock you lose 2% performance with the new bios.

While the 1.2.0.6C bios is Stable up to 103.9 bclk the new one already crashes with 16 and 8T 3Dmark loads when running 103.68 BCLK.
I need Kombo Strike Mode 2 to match the stock performance of the 1.2.0.6C bios but then there is no OC Headroom left with the new one.
So im sad to say im switching back to the good old E7C91AMS.190 1.2.0.6C bios again.

You can find more info here:

This bios seems even less stable than the first 1.2.0.7 bios. Non of those could match the 1.2.0.6C in performance @ stock settings let alone with OC.
 
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