ALL fans won't start up at boot (randomly)

donie brasko

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I discovered this issue 4-5 months ago, I believe after CPU and cooler upgrade. Very rarely after bootup my CPU hits 100 degrees and system freezes with BSOD. I did not know why that happened for a long period of time, so I just keep restarting my PC after each BSOD and forget about that issue for 2-3 weeks. This happened like 6-7 times in 4-5 months, completely randomly, sometimes without BSOD, sometimes with error message "CPU overheat" after restart. My system works completely fine when that happened, like nothing were happened at all, just ALL fans were not spinning until 100degrees cooked up my CPU and the system freeze.

Today I finally realized that my PC is too quiet after boot-up, so I quickly checked CPU fans, and I was horrified, ALL FANS of my PC did not spinning: CPU, GPU, 4x case fans, all were dead. Motherboard was working just like everyday. The only thing is it was showing 00 instead of cpu-temp in led indicator on MB. I just made a video of all that stuff.

Motherboard: MSI MEG Z490 UNIFY (MS-7C71)
CPU: I7-10700K
GPU: GTX1080TI
RAM: DDR4 G.Skill F4-3200C16-8GVKB 4x8gb

What I did:
- disabled all sleep features
- disabled fast boot
- BIOS update to the latest version
- CMOS clear
- BIOS reset all settings

Currently I'm angry with myself that I didn't discover this earlier, because my CPU now is in a very bad shape, hitting 75 degrees when browsing with many tabs. What do I need to resolve this?
 
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citay

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I would unplug all fans and test them one by one. Check if it's running, and only go into the BIOS and check under HW Monitor if you can control the speed (PWM for 4-pin fans, DC for 3-pin fans).

What are your other components, especially CPU cooler and PSU? With a fan problem, those are more important than your exact RAM model number...
 

donie brasko

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I would unplug all fans and test them one by one. Check if it's running, and only go into the BIOS and check under HW Monitor if you can control the speed (PWM for 4-pin fans, DC for 3-pin fans).

What are your other components, especially CPU cooler and PSU? With a fan problem, those are more important than your exact RAM model number...
Thanks for your reply.

CPU cooler: Noctua nh-u12a
PSU: Raidmax Cobra RX-1200AE-B, 1200w.
Both CPU fans connected to PUMP_FAN1 slot on MB, because I can control them via PWM from that slot (in BIOS). I believe I can not do that via CPU_FAN slot, that's why I'm using PUMP one.
3 front Case fans: NZXT RF-AF12C-RB, they are 3-pins fans, connected to 4-pin extender cable that is connected to SYS_FAN4 slot.
1 back case fan is NOCTUA NF-S12B, connected to SYS_FAN2.
BIOS controlling their speed, never used an app for that, I manually added temp/speed curves for all of them (including CPU).
MSI afterburner is used for temp control.

Can 3x / 3-pins front case fans, that are wired to 4-pin cable and then to one slot at MB, casually turn off all _FAN slots on MB?
 

citay

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The CPU and PUMP fan headers can always be controlled via PWM too. With your mainboard, it offers PWM control on all (!) fan headers. On the CPU fan header, it will have an automatic detection, on the others you have to set it to PWM manually.



You are grouping too many fans to single headers and overloading them. Split them all up to seperate headers. Your board offers more than enough of them. Control the DC fans as DC and the PWM as PWM (because the latter can also be DC-controlled, i.e. via supply voltage, but then you lose the PWM advantages).
 

amirm200156102e1

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I have exactly the same problem. The motherboard is MSI Z490 Unify, sometimes the fans on the case and the cooler don’t start. It seems to me that at best it is a problem with the bios, at worst it is a hardware problem of the motherboard
 

zerijelly

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Noctua fan has minimum required starting voltage to start spinning.
The BIOS default has smart fan mode with different temperature and voltage preset.
When the system boot from shutting down, the system temperature too low may cause the temperature lower than 55 °C thus the voltage being output from the system would be around 1.56V and not reaching 4.56V.
Better confirm the minimum fan starting voltage of different fan used.
 

donie brasko

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The CPU and PUMP fan headers can always be controlled via PWM too. With your mainboard, it offers PWM control on all (!) fan headers. On the CPU fan header, it will have an automatic detection, on the others you have to set it to PWM manually.



You are grouping too many fans to single headers and overloading them. Split them all up to seperate headers. Your board offers more than enough of them. Control the DC fans as DC and the PWM as PWM (because the latter can also be DC-controlled, i.e. via supply voltage, but then you lose the PWM advantages).
Today this happened again, this time I unplugged 2 of 3 fans from the front, so overloading header is not a case. Now I'm curious what if I use program fans control, so after bootup it will determine fan pwm curves and take a full control of them. Maybe this will resolve this issue. The big frustration here is that this issue is not consistent, it happens rarely and I can't provoke it, today is almost a month from last time this happened.
 

donie brasko

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Noctua fan has minimum required starting voltage to start spinning.
The BIOS default has smart fan mode with different temperature and voltage preset.
When the system boot from shutting down, the system temperature too low may cause the temperature lower than 55 °C thus the voltage being output from the system would be around 1.56V and not reaching 4.56V.
Better confirm the minimum fan starting voltage of different fan used.
All fans are dead when this happens, I can not start them even with force spinning. They all PWM configured with curves, and from the first time I did this setup I never had any issues with them, before half a year ago this happened for the first time. They all starts spinning after boot and then after 4-5sec all of them just slowly stops, and by all I mean: CPU x2, 3x (now 1x) case front and 1x 140mm back.
 

donie brasko

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Today it happens again. No doubt this is a Mainboard issue. This time I tried to re-plug all fans while system is on, did not help. Fans are starting at boot and slowly stops, then never spins again until reboot. All this with "00" on MB screen. 00 error and dead fans are the only way I know something is wrong.

Tried to control fans via SpeedFan program on Windows 10, but there are no fan readings there.

Will contact the store where I bought this MB, but they will never give me another one MB at time this one will be repaired. So sadly my only way is to by a new one.

Is there any soultion? I desperately need advice here, don't know what to do now. I tried like 50 times in a row to boot/shutoff, all for triggerring this issue but without any luck. It happens rarely and I really can't understand what exactly can cause this.
 

Svet

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Do you have another CPU cooler to try? [if you think the CPU cooler change trigger that issue]
Have you tried to boot with board out of PC case placed over wooden table?
Re-flash the BIOS with flash button?
 

donie brasko

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Do you have another CPU cooler to try? [if you think the CPU cooler change trigger that issue]
Have you tried to boot with board out of PC case placed over wooden table?
Re-flash the BIOS with flash button?
Honestly, I think this is just a coincidence. Even if CPU fans are guilty, why the heck ALL fans connected to MB fails?
Dielectric stand is an idea and I was thinking about it, maybe some electricity is leaking on case at start up, but I really don't wanna pull all out of the case for a month or so.
Already tried re-flash and CMOS clear both.

BTW today it happened again. I ordered another MB and hopefully I can return this one by a guarantee.
 

Svet

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Dielectric stand is an idea and I was thinking about it, maybe some electricity is leaking on case at start up, but I really don't wanna pull all out of the case for a month or so.
Why for a month?
You have to take the board out from the PC case anyway since the other option is to RMA it.
Test it without PC case, and if still doesn't work send it back to reseller/MSI.
 

donie brasko

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Why for a month?
You have to take the board out from the PC case anyway since the other option is to RMA it.
Test it without PC case, and if still doesn't work send it back to reseller/MSI.
Maybe you're right. I really don't wanna mess up with cable management I did once, but here we are.
IMG_20210817_165716-min.jpg

And now I definitely know why there is power and reset buttons on MB.


P.S. I'm gonna record every single boot up every day, so I would have some more reliable evidence for retailer, if he tells me there is nothing wrong with it. In my country RMA process is nothing but luck.
 
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citay

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By the way, at the next opportunity, i would replace the PSU with something better. On the PSU tier list, your model is ranked as "Tier C • Recommended for cheap mid/low-end systems", and only as a "low-priority unit" at that. So it doesn't really match with your other components. Plus, for such a powerful unit, it's too inefficient. At 1200W i would only accept 80 PLUS Gold or better. edit: It's actually 80 PLUS Gold, but still not the best choice.

Not that you actually need 1200W, your graphics card pulls 250-300W tops, your 10700K maybe 250W tops too, then let's say another 50-80W for the rest including mainboard. Although CPU and GPU will never have the peak power consumption both at the same time (in games, the CPU will pull much less). Anyway, then you need to add some headroom. So with a quality 700, 750W PSU, you're good. If you want to have reserves for future upgrades, get a quality 850-1000W model. See here how to find a good model.
 
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donie brasko

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By the way, at the next opportunity, i would replace the PSU with something better. On the PSU tier list, your model is ranked as "Tier C • Recommended for cheap mid/low-end systems", and only as a "low-priority unit" at that. So it doesn't really match with your other components. Plus, for such a powerful unit, it's too inefficient. At 1200W i would only accept 80 PLUS Gold or better.

Not that you actually need 1200W, your graphics card pulls 250-300W tops, your 10700K maybe 250W tops too, then let's say another 50-80W for the rest including mainboard. Although CPU and GPU will never have the peak power consumption both at the same time (in games, the CPU will pull much less). Anyway, then you need to add some headroom. So with a quality 700, 750W PSU, you're good. If you want to have reserves for future upgrades, get a quality 850-1000W model. See here how to find a good model.
I'm in a little shock to see my PSU at the bottom of this tier list. I spent a lot of time for choosing it, watched many reviews and this was a decent PSU in my opinion. Thank you so much for this info.

And today is the third morning in a row when fans did stop spinning. I recorded entire process so now I'm ready for RMA. And with enough luck will change PSU as well.
 

citay

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Raidmax is known to use Andyson as the OEM for building their PSUs, which are known for being quite mediocre. Hiper also used Andyson as the OEM and they went out of business because of their bad PSUs. Only in the Andyson-branded units with 80 PLUS Platinum/Titanium, they actually delivered good designs. I have to admit, i mistook your PSU model for only having 80 PLUS Bronze, but it's actually 80 PLUS Gold. So it's not such as bad as i initially thought. Still, the PSU came out in 2015, and only with 2 years of warranty, which is extremely short for an 80 PLUS Gold model. That's a red flag, if you look at my recommendations on how to find a good model, https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?...-at-windows-10-blue-logo.365714/#post-2073403
 
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