B760I edge wifi Bios freeze

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

Hello
I need some help with changing my fan speeds. right now they are running at 100%. when I go in to bios to change the sys fan from DC (default selection) to pwm the bios will freeze. I have tried to do this 3 times and the same result happens (bios freeze). I even tried to see if i can change the speed in the MSI center and it doesnt do anything after I select a curve I want. Will updating the Bois fix this issue?

 

[citay]

For sure it's the first thing that needs to be tried. Can you also list all your components including CPU and PSU model?

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

I actually found out what the issue was. It was caused by myself getting the fan headers mixed up. the sys_fan runs DC only for fans at 12v, the pump_fan runs PWM up to 36v and the cpu_fan is auto mode. I switched my pwm hub cable from sys fan to pump fan and now have control.

 

[citay]

It's all 12V, on DC control you can vary it from 0-12V, the thing about the PUMP_FAN header is, it can supply 3A (so, 12V * 3A = 36W). I don't know why the BIOS froze when you set PWM mode for SYS_FAN. Normally i recommend to put everything on the board's headers (also see my Guide: How to set up a fan curve in the BIOS), but since you only have three of them on your board, i see how a fan controller can come in handy.

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

yeah I think I am ok as my pwm hub runs power from sata and the 4 pin connector sends rpm data to the header. at least thats what noctua says it does when pluged in to sata as power. What do you think is best? this is my first itx build second build ever so I am not sure if this will damage my parts or not. I really didnt want to update the bios as i have heard horror story about doing that and my mobo has no flashback button.

 

[citay]

What BIOS version are you on now, and what's your CPU? If you have a true 13th/14th gen, for example a -K version, then your hand will be forced, you have to update the BIOS, otherwise it would be affected by buggy microcode in older BIOS versions. On an old BIOS with buggy microcode, affected CPU models slowly get grilled from spikes of excessive voltage, which eventually causes CPU degradation to the point of instability.

The BIOS update itself is not a real danger on 600/700-series, problems during that are extremely rare. So i would worry more about bugs in the old BIOS versions than about doing the update.

Also, i want to know your PSU etc. to see if it's all a good match or not.

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

im running a 13600k with bios A.60

 

[citay]

Yep, you have a true 13th gen Raptor Lake CPU, which is therefore affected by CPU degradation (which can lead to instability) when the BIOS is not updated. And BIOS vA6 definitely still contained the completely buggy Intel microcode which caused damaging voltage spikes. That BIOS is from even before the issues were first discovered, everything still seemed hunky-dory back then.

It's crucial that you update to the latest BIOS version, unless you want to see your CPU degrade in record time (normally it takes decades of operation for a CPU to degrade to a meaningful degree, but thanks to those old microcode bugs, it can happen in months sometimes).

Then, after the update, i would recommend to go by my guide to further optimize things for your CPU. On a B-series board, that can have some limitations though, you have to keep an eye on the performance if you optimize it according to step 2) of the guide. I also mention that in there, but beyond a certain point of optimization, you might start to drastically lose performance, and you might not be able to apply the usual countermeasure (disabling a certain BIOS setting), because a B-series board might not have that setting. Then you can only optimize it up to a certain point. But still better than the BIOS defaults.

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

ok i updated bios to the last one msi has published for this board. but now it seems like my cpu temp is higher than before and also in msi center my fans are not really responding to my curv i set. what did i do wrong. the update went flawless

 

[citay]

ok i updated bios to the last one msi has published for this board.

Good.

but now it seems like my cpu temp is higher than before

That is why i linked my guide, this will take care of it, it will even reverse it (making it run cooler than ever before).
The cause is here, Explained: How the new BIOS versions are causing higher temperatures.

So when you go through the two steps from my guide, you should have no problems anymore afterwards. The only thing about step 2), as i tried to touch on, is that you use a B-series chipset board with a K-series CPU, and this combination sometimes doesn't offer the BIOS setting called "IA CEP Support". Normally you have to set that to Disabled for the optimization in step 2) of the guide. But when you can't disable it, like it may be the case for your board+CPU combination, then you are restricted the optimizing down to Mode 10 or so, not much lower. Still, this will be much better than what the BIOS sets per default. Check out the guide and the other thread i just linked, you will see what i mean. Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

also in msi center my fans are not really responding to my curv i set.

I recommend setting the curves in the BIOS instead, you don't need MSI Center for it. See my Guide: How to set up a fan curve in the BIOS.

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

ok i will do that, i did go back in to bios after I updated and no cpu cooler came up for the selection. do i have to manually select that?

 

[citay]

You can select it under OC somewhere, you can choose the "MSI Performance" setting there. That's the setting you choose when you have no idea what your cooling can deal with, because it sets the maximum values that should ever be allowed for any CPU. So then you can do a Cinebench run (creating full CPU load) and watch the temperatures in HWinfo, as i describe in the guide. You will quickly see if they get out of hand (approaching 100°C), then you have to set lower power limits according to the guide, until you can keep the temperatures away from the 90°C range under full load. Once this is done, you can go to step 2).

edit: I now added an explanation in my guide of where the setting is, if you don't get the cooler selection screen.

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

ok I will follow the guide. I selected the msi performance setting I hope thats fine with the B 700 type board as im not sure if that will OC the cpu or not and i dont think you can oc the cpu on these boards right? also right now my lite load is mode 18 auto not sure what that is. Edit: after selecting the Msi performance I ran r24 and after about 6 seconds in the multi cpu test the temp hit 100c and the total max power was 227.21w for the package (highest being VR in 280.00w) Odly enough just my cpu fan kicked in even though I have set my other fans to kick in based on cpu temp. I dont want to run r24 for any longer, what should I set the power limits too?

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

ok so I changed from the msi performance to the standard selection ( i forget what its called) only because I could not set the short or long power limits they are set to auto and i cant even select them. I re ran r24 and got a 100c max on the package after 9:59 (mid to high 80s~mid90s for the test) Max power on the package was 216.25w with a VR in max of 262.00w. though both PL1 and PL2 are 181w across all min/max. What should I do set the long draw to 125w? short draw to 180w?

 

[citay]

Ok, so like i thought, the default "MSI Performance" power limits of 253W are way too much for your cooling, i expected nothing else with a small-sized system. Unless you manage to fit a 360mm AIO water cooler somewhere and get enough airflow through its radiator, you will always tend to have worse cooling in small form factor systems compared to bigger ATX ones. Smaller cooler, less free space and less airflow through the system.

Even the 181W are too much, and it's very good that you haven't gotten an i7 or i9 for this, because they would have had to be put on a very tight leash. The i5 we can just about get under control without lowering the limits too much more. For setting individual power limits, you don't select anything, you just start to type the number you want (in Watts).

So for example, you can try 180W short / 160W long power limits, or 175W/150W. Having a large delta (181W->125W), like you can see on the Intel defaults sometimes, that was mainly used for getting better benchmark numbers in the launch reviews, if the benchmarks can finish in under a minute. Usually it's better to not have to resort to such a huge difference. Remember, this step 1) is only about protecting your cooling, so it's enough if you keep the temperatures from being in the 90°s.

Then in step 2), we work on lowering the mode for CPU Lite Load. Most of your questions should be answered in the guide. Basically, the more you can lower this mode (while keeping full performance and full stability, which you both have to check), the better and the more efficient the CPU will run.

Note down your baseline performance score in Cinebench Multi with the correct power limits for your system. If all goes to plan, the performance should actually increase a little once your lower the CPU Lite Load mode. With the small footnote that, on a B-series board, you may have the performance drop off a cliff below a certain mode, without being able to counteract it. This remains to be seen. But for example you can try Mode 12 right away, this should immediately improve things, and even on a B-series board shouldn't cost any performance.

 

[graham.bedar15c002e6]

I edited some of the bios settings, set a long short limit of 175w~150w with mode 12. performance was very good max temp of 86c, and a much better r24 score. i ran other tests on mode 13 and mode 11 and both had been poor vs mode 12. I may up the power long short by 5w but i think for now this issue is solved. thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and hold my hand through the process.

 

[citay]

You're welcome, always glad to help.

About Mode 13 being worse than Mode 12, that's as expected, every mode higher will worsen how the CPU runs, every mode lower will improve it, as long as it stays stable (and the vast majority of CPUs will still be stable in the double-digits). Then, as for Mode 11 being worse, it could be that this is already the point that this "IA CEP Support" function starts to kick in and is lowering performance. If that's the case, then Mode 12 is indeed the sweet spot for you. There's not even a need to do huge amounts of stability testing there, because this high of a mode should give no stability issues yet. I'd run a few tests regardless, but no need to go overboard. Power limits seem to be dialed in pretty well too. Good job.