Board Recommendation

[Air Torrent]

Hi,
Not sure if this is the best place but looking for advice on a new motherboard. Going with the 9800x3d chip and an xfx 9070xt Mercury OC GPU. I don't intend to do any overclocking. I had mostly decided to go with the b850 edge TI over the Tomahawk Max Wifi just due to the white layout and I like the debug option. Going up to the x870e versions though is there any real need for me to consider them or the Carbon models as there are some combo offer on newegg for them (and 64GB ram with the carbon but that seems overkill still at this time).
I will have 2 nvme drives and 1 sata III 2.5in ssd drive at most at any just backing up important data so I don't think I really benefit (and I never use external storage other then for a backup). I would use about 5 usb ports at any time, possibly a couple more if I get into flight sims and upgrade my joystick to a hotas and only 1 is usb C at this time on the back to my stereo amp and 1 on front panel to possibly use with a gaming headset.
I honestly think the b850 models are more then enough but just wouldn't mind some external advice.
Thanks!

 

[badboy2k]

Hi,
Not sure if this is the best place but looking for advice on a new motherboard. Going with the 9800x3d chip and an xfx 9070xt Mercury OC GPU. I don't intend to do any overclocking. I had mostly decided to go with the b850 edge TI over the Tomahawk Max Wifi just due to the white layout and I like the debug option. Going up to the x870e versions though is there any real need for me to consider them or the Carbon models as there are some combo offer on newegg for them (and 64GB ram with the carbon but that seems overkill still at this time).
I will have 2 nvme drives and 1 sata III 2.5in ssd drive at most at any just backing up important data so I don't think I really benefit (and I never use external storage other then for a backup). I would use about 5 usb ports at any time, possibly a couple more if I get into flight sims and upgrade my joystick to a hotas and only 1 is usb C at this time on the back to my stereo amp and 1 on front panel to possibly use with a gaming headset.
I honestly think the b850 models are more then enough but just wouldn't mind some external advice.
Thanks!

Personally I would only Go for a B Series board if your using a Ryzen 3 or Ryzen 5 as they are less of a Power Hog on the Processors and have a Much Lower TDP and Power Draw as them boards are really Meant for Lower Power Draw.

For a Ryzen 7 or Ryzen 9 its Better to go for the X Chipset boards as they have Much more in Relation to Power Delivery and as your CPU of Choice is also a X3D version they are much more Power Hungry and as the X chipsets board have much Better VRM's I would go for a x870e Board with that CPU you want as it would be under alot less stress them a B Series Board.

 

[Air Torrent]

Personally I would only Go for a B Series board if your using a Ryzen 3 or Ryzen 5 as they are less of a Power Hog on the Processors and have a Much Lower TDP and Power Draw as them boards are really Meant for Lower Power Draw.

For a Ryzen 7 or Ryzen 9 its Better to go for the X Chipset boards as they have Much more in Relation to Power Delivery and as your CPU of Choice is also a X3D version they are much more Power Hungry and as the X chipsets board have much Better VRM's I would go for a x870e Board with that CPU you want as it would be under alot less stress them a B Series Board.

Thanks I will have to do some more research on the power delivery and vrm of the boards.

 

[citay]

With AM5, I wouldn't say that the B-series boards should universally be reserved for lower-end CPUs anymore. It depends very much on the individual board model. There are very well-equipped B-series boards available from MSI, also in regards to the VRM, just with the cheaper chipset variant. Of course there's also low-end B-series boards which are quite cheaply built, but it didn't sound like you were considering those anyways.

Here's a comparison of the models, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...9O-y_6hv8sPs/edit?gid=110556017#gid=110556017
It's difficult to read, since it's so much information packed in tight tables, but if you know what things mean and what are the good and the cheap solutions, it's a good overview.

The VCore/VRM solutions can be read like this: Whenever you see things like "1H/1L" (or 1H/2L etc.), this means the board uses cheap discrete MOSFETs, one high-side MOSFET (for the 12V side coming from the PSU), one Low-side MOSFET (1.xxV side for the CPU) per VRM phase. Sometimes 1 Hi-side and 2 Lo-side to spread the thermal load more evenly. When you see DrMOS, that's Driver IC + Hi- & Lo-MOSFET in one package, for better efficiency. When you see SPS, that's a Smart Powerstage, basically a DrMOS with additional circuitry, so that's the best solution. Then there's different brands and models of each part, which also influence their quality and price, but any DrMOS and any SPS will beat a cheap solution of using discrete (separate) MOSFETs.

Regarding the VRM, once it uses powerstages and is fully heatsinked, it can deal with pretty much everything already. There are differences in efficiency and idle power draw etc. between different VRM solutions, but it's difficult to tell beforehand. Usually, go for a nice mid-range board that has all the features you're gonna use, and sells in large volumes. This will have the least chance of trouble of any kind. The more other users with that board, the better, because then any kind of issues will already have been experienced by others before, and they will also submit more tickets to MSI about BIOS bugs etc.

Most of the time, the B850 or X870 board will suffice. The X870E is more for power-users, with its higher number of PCIe lanes being better suited for is things like 10G LAN, video capture cards, stuff like that.

X870, B850 and B840 are one and the same chipset, the differences are only in what AMD make mandatory for the board partners to implement around it. By making USB 4 mandatory on X870/X870E, they have to use precious PCIe lanes for it. If I had to get an MSI AM5 board right now for myself, it would probably be the B850 Tomahawk Max WIFI. It uses 14x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for VCore, there isn't a CPU this can't cope with. I prefer the simpler solutions of B850 and X870, not the two daisy-chained chipsets on the X870E. So the latter, i would only recommend if you know you really need something only it offers.

 

[Air Torrent]

With AM5, I wouldn't say that the B-series boards should universally be reserved for lower-end CPUs anymore. It depends very much on the individual board model. There are very well-equipped B-series boards available from MSI, also in regards to the VRM, just with the cheaper chipset variant. Of course there's also low-end B-series boards which are quite cheaply built, but it didn't sound like you were considering those anyways.

Here's a comparison of the models, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...9O-y_6hv8sPs/edit?gid=110556017#gid=110556017
It's difficult to read, since it's so much information packed in tight tables, but if you know what things mean and what are the good and the cheap solutions, it's a good overview.

The VCore/VRM solutions can be read like this: Whenever you see things like "1H/1L" (or 1H/2L etc.), this means the board uses cheap discrete MOSFETs, one high-side MOSFET (for the 12V side coming from the PSU), one Low-side MOSFET (1.xxV side for the CPU) per VRM phase. Sometimes 1 Hi-side and 2 Lo-side to spread the thermal load more evenly. When you see DrMOS, that's Driver IC + Hi- & Lo-MOSFET in one package, for better efficiency. When you see SPS, that's a Smart Powerstage, basically a DrMOS with additional circuitry, so that's the best solution. Then there's different brands and models of each part, which also influence their quality and price, but any DrMOS and any SPS will beat a cheap solution of using discrete (separate) MOSFETs.

Regarding the VRM, once it uses powerstages and is fully heatsinked, it can deal with pretty much everything already. There are differences in efficiency and idle power draw etc. between different VRM solutions, but it's difficult to tell beforehand. Usually, go for a nice mid-range board that has all the features you're gonna use, and sells in large volumes. This will have the least chance of trouble of any kind. The more other users with that board, the better, because then any kind of issues will already have been experienced by others before, and they will also submit more tickets to MSI about BIOS bugs etc.

Most of the time, the B850 or X870 board will suffice. The X870E is more for power-users, with its higher number of PCIe lanes being better suited for is things like 10G LAN, video capture cards, stuff like that.

X870, B850 and B840 are one and the same chipset, the differences are only in what AMD make mandatory for the board partners to implement around it. By making USB 4 mandatory on X870/X870E, they have to use precious PCIe lanes for it. If I had to get an MSI AM5 board right now for myself, it would probably be the B850 Tomahawk Max WIFI. It uses 14x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for VCore, there isn't a CPU this can't cope with. I prefer the simpler solutions of B850 and X870, not the two daisy-chained chipsets on the X870E. So the latter, i would only recommend if you know you really need something only it offers.

Thank you for the great summarization of the VCore, I hadn't really dived into that at all (but will be now) other then having a brief glance at the phase configs. I mostly had watched some Laurents choice videos and figured the MSI options of the tomahawk or edge up were going to be well equipped.

 

[RemusM]

Personally I would only Go for a B Series board if your using a Ryzen 3 or Ryzen 5

For a Ryzen 7 or Ryzen 9 its Better to go for the X Chipset boards

I subscribe.
The bottom line: don't use a cheap board for a top CPU!
good luck

 

[citay]

This classification into B-series -> use only for low-end CPUs vs. X-series -> use for high-end CPUs doesn't make too much sense.
The bigger differences are hidden within the model lineup, not the chipset, so the focus should be on individual models.

MSI MAG B850 Tomahawk MAX WIFI;
14x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for VCore, 2x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for SOC, 1x 55A AOZ5516QI (DrMOS) for misc.

MSI X870E Gaming Plus WIFI:
14x 60A MP87661 (SPS) for VCore, 2x 60A MP87661 (SPS) for SOC, 1x 55A AOZ5516QI (DrMOS) for misc.

So this board, despite using an X870E, uses cheaper VRM components. Also cheaper audio chipset and such, at the same price of the B850 board.
Same with MSI PRO X870E-P WIFI, MSI PRO X870E-S Evo WIFI, MSI MAG X870E Gaming MAX WIFI.

The first board that has an equally good VRM to the B850 Tomahawk MAX WIFI is the X870E Tomahawk (Max) WIFI.
Finally that is back to:
14x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for VCore, 2x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for SOC, 1x 55A AOZ5516QI (DrMOS) for misc.

On AM4, the differences between boards with the different chipsets were more pronounced. Nowadays, they offer nice boards with a B-series chipset too, and pretty cheap X/Z-series boards (especially the -S models stood out negatively in recent times). So the chipset generalization is not that valid anymore. The only thing that is still universally true is to avoid the A-series boards whenever possible, unless it's an absolute low-end system.

 

[RemusM]

This classification into B-series -> use only for low-end CPUs vs. X-series -> use for high-end CPUs doesn't make too much sense.

It doesn't make sense for you.
It's not only about VRMs here.
It's mainly about the components quality.
On top of that you don't buy a cheap "B" motherboard for a CPU monster and a GPU monster. That's simply wrong!
In any case, no need to argue here.

 

[RemusM]

So the chipset generalization is not that valid anymore.

Read again (carefully this time) my posted messages.
I'm not talking about any "B" motherboard. I was talking about the cheap "B" motherboards!
And please tell us: how many wealthy german guys driving Trabant did you see in your entire life?

the MSI options of the tomahawk or edge up were going to be well equipped.

Yes, go for one of those!

 

[citay]

It doesn't make sense for you.
It's not only about VRMs here.
It's mainly about the components quality.

MSI MAG B850 Tomahawk MAX WIFI has similar or better components than the MSI X870E Gaming Plus WIFI, not worse. You only pay more for the chipsets on the X870E, so the board prices of those two end up being similar. So, I don't know which components you could mean here, other than the chipsets themselves, but that's also just a political choice of AMD, what features they want to allow or make mandatory for each chipset, when they are really the same inside.

On top of that you don't buy a cheap "B" motherboard for a CPU monster and a GPU monster. That's simply wrong!

Fully agree. But your quote was this:

This is exactly the generalization (B-series = Ryzen 3/5, X-series = 7/9) that's no longer that simple, considering there are good B-series board models which are better than some X-series board models.

If you had only made the following statement, I wouldn't have said anything, because it's 100% correct:

The bottom line: don't use a cheap board for a top CPU!

But taken as a whole, that post suggested that X-series boards were generally better still. And all I added was, we need to look at individual board models, regardless of the chipset.

 

[RemusM]

But your quote was this:

That's a partial quote and it's not my statement anyway.
This is the full one:

I subscribe.
The bottom line: don't use a cheap board for a top CPU!
good luck

You still did not respond to an important question.
And the reason is obvious.
Again: how many wealthy german guys driving Trabant did you see in your entire life?

 

[citay]

I didn't see any Trabant in decades where I live. The second part of your quote is fully correct, but looking at the entire post, it gave the impression that you may be referring to B-series boards as a whole. So I thought I'd go into more detail why the individual model is important, and the chipset is secondary.

 

[RemusM]

MSI MAG B850 Tomahawk MAX WIFI;
14x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for VCore, 2x 80A MP87670 (SPS) for SOC, 1x 55A AOZ5516QI (DrMOS) for misc.

MSI X870E Gaming Plus WIFI:
14x 60A MP87661 (SPS) for VCore, 2x 60A MP87661 (SPS) for SOC, 1x 55A AOZ5516QI (DrMOS) for misc.

Do not compare the most expensive "B" board with the cheapest "X" board!
Because it's not correct and it's not what I said before.

233 bucks for "B" : https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-B850-TOMAHAWK-WIFI-Motherboard/dp/B0DPKVF29H?th=1
219 bucks for "X": https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-X870E-GAMING-PLUS-Motherboard/dp/B0F67B9XT7?th=1

 

[citay]

Yes, exactly. So why did you quote this again and subscribed to it, after I just had posted that it's not that simple anymore?

Personally I would only Go for a B Series board if your using a Ryzen 3 or Ryzen 5

For a Ryzen 7 or Ryzen 9 its Better to go for the X Chipset boards

 

[RemusM]

So why did you quote this again and subscribed to it, after I just had posted that it's not that simple anymore?

Because your approach is not correct.
Again: Do not compare the most expensive "B" board with the cheapest "X" board!
Most of the "B" boards are cheap and most of the "X" boards are expensive.
That's why - generally speaking - the "X" boards are better than "B" boards.
To show a rule exception is simply wrong.

 

[citay]

Because your approach is not correct.

I named four X-series boards which are worse than a B-series board in the VRM quality.

MSI MAG B850 Tomahawk MAX WIFI: 232 EUR

MSI X870E Gaming Plus WIFI: 227 EUR
MSI PRO X870E-P WIFI: 232 EUR
MSI PRO X870E-S Evo WIFI: 236 EUR
MSI MAG X870E Gaming MAX WIFI: 258 EUR

They are also worse in some other things, as mentioned, cheaper Realtek ALC897 than ALC4080 for example. The only plus is from the chipsets.

Why did I pick that particular B-series board? Because the OP was listing that specifically. Until he was told that any unspecific X-series board would probably be better.

 

[RemusM]

Why did I pick that particular B-series board? Because the OP was listing that specifically. Until he was told that any unspecific X-series board would probably be better.

the MSI options of the tomahawk or edge up were going to be well equipped.

Yes, go for one of those!

233 bucks for B-Tomahawk : https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-B850-TOMAHAWK-WIFI-Motherboard/dp/B0DPKVF29H?th=1
359 bucks for X-Edge: https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-X870E-EDGE-WIFI-Motherboard/dp/B0BSLKWC3R?th=1
This is the main question here!

 

[citay]

Well, I think he has plenty information to make a good choice now. In trying to explain to each other what we meant, I think it also made clear that Tomahawk/Edge/Carbon models can be a good choice regardless of the chipset, and some cheap PRO/Gaming models can be not such a good choice regardless of the chipset, when paired with a Ryzen 7/9 (similar for Intel 7/9).

 

[RemusM]

Well, I think he has plenty information to make a good choice now. In trying to explain to each other what we meant, I think it also made clear that Tomahawk/Edge/Carbon models can be a good choice regardless of the chipset, and some cheap PRO/Gaming models can be not such a good choice regardless of the chipset, when paired with a Ryzen 7/9 (similar for Intel 7/9).

I subscribe (this is the full quote now )

 

[Yearofthegoat]

B850 Tomahawk MAX here, running Ryzen 9 9900X overclocked, perfectly fine. B boards are NOT only for Ryzen 3 or 5 CPUs. The choice of motherboard comes down to components and features, not just some simplistic B=poor stupid rule. I chose the B850 because it has minimal PCIe lane-sharing vs the others. Means no compromises on nvme speeds, USB performance etc.