Discussion: BIOS 7D91vH5 (Bad for 2DPC 1R @6600) - Z790 Tomahawk WiFi DDR5

rathaROG

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Hello, has anyone tried the latest 7D91vH5 ?

Beside the usual Windows activation problem [SOLVED], TestMem5 Extreme1@anta777 reported some errors on my PC while it had zero error with BIOS 7D91vH2 [SEE HERE].

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UPDATE: After I cleared and discharged the BIOS, TestMem5 showed no error, but during this test, I opened the front window of my PC's case for better air flow and the RAM only reached 56.5 °C. The error in the screenshot above could be also caused by the high temperature of the middle RAM sticks which hit 61.5 °C during the test.

1683367340894.png
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UPDATE II: 4th TEST - H5 is inconsistent for my [2DPC 1R] @6600

UPDATE III: BACK TO H4

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Please note that my PC has [2DPC 1R] 4x16GB G.SKILL F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS @6600 XMP.

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Which ram do you use? I‘m also still on H2 BIOS and have no problems with my system even the64gb gskill 6400 kit is running without errors on xmp profile. Is there any good reason to update to H5?
 
Which ram do you use?
Normal XMP profile @6600, 4x16GB G.SKILL F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS
You can read the full stories here:

Is there any good reason to update to H5?
I think the H4 is a must update. H5 you decide.
1683284103822.png


Quick update:
I cleared the BIOS & discharged, re-ran the memtest5 and the cycle 1 passed without any error, so I am confident to say that cycle 2 & 3 won't have any error. I will post the final result when it finishes. By the way, I am not sure if it's related, but this time, the front panel/window of my PC's case is opened so that it has better air flow, and the RAMs are max at 56.5 °C. In the OP, the front window was closed, the middle RAMs reached 61.5 °C.

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Oh, you have 4x 16 GB... that is always more problematic, it's usually much preferred to use 2x 32 GB if you want 64 GB total DDR5, see my RAM thread.

So 4x 16 GB DDR5-6600 is actually quite an achievement! A lot of times this won't be stable without manual intervention.
 
Oh, you have 4x 16 GB... that is always more problematic, it's usually much preferred to use 2x 32 GB if you want 64 GB total DDR5, see my RAM thread.

So 4x 16 GB DDR5-6600 is actually quite an achievement! A lot of times this won't be stable without manual intervention.

Yeah I actually didn't do enough research before building this PC... Anyway, the H2 was great. I did run the extreme test multiple times and no error.

In the OP, I was lazy and I didn't clear & discharge the BIOS.. Now retesting after I cleared BIOS & discharged... Cycle 2 passed without any error. I'm not sure if clearing & discharging BIOS are the must-do things every time we update the BIOS? Or I must keep all the RAMs under 60 °C so that my PC is stable with 4 sticks? 🤔

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Your RAM kits have an XMP profile with a high voltage anyway, so when you pack two such kits together next to each other, it's not ideal as far as the thermals go. Historically, the more high-performance RAM ICs were also more temperature sensitive, prompting the need for active RAM cooling on some high-end configurations with high DRAM Voltage.

If you check the very last paragraph of my RAM thread, about RAM and heat, you will see that there is a clear relation. Basically, the hotter the RAM, the higher the chance of errors, that's just the laws of physics and how the charge in the memory cells behaves. You can try to provoke this for testing by running something like Furmark on your GPU, or by holding a hair dryer towards the RAM (not too hot of course). If you can easily destabilize it like that, then it's quite temperature-sensitive and you will have to think of something.
 
Your RAM kits have an XMP profile with a high voltage anyway, so when you pack two such kits together next to each other, it's not ideal as far as the thermals go. Historically, the more high-performance RAM ICs were also more temperature sensitive, prompting the need for active RAM cooling on some high-end configurations with high DRAM Voltage.

If you check the very last paragraph of my RAM thread, about RAM and heat, you will see that there is a clear relation. Basically, the hotter the RAM, the higher the chance of errors, that's just the laws of physics and how the charge in the memory cells behaves. You can try to provoke this for testing by running something like Furmark on your GPU, or by holding a hair dryer towards the RAM (not too hot of course). If you can easily destabilize it like that, then it's quite temperature-sensitive and you will have to think of something.

Thanks for the info! Now I'm ordering a 60mm fan for the RAMs.

My case has 5x 140mm intake & 1x 140mm exhaust fans. All are PWM and I set the fan curves manually. The CPU has a water cooling kit with 3x PWM 120mm which can reach 3300 rpm. I'm sure the air flow is pretty good. Anyway, during the testmem5 test, the case intake fans were only spinning @1000 rpm or less as the CPU wasn't used much. It will be very interesting to run full stress test for both CPU & GPU especially during summer. :D

By the way, the test is completed with zero error.

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Sliiight imbalance. Or did you not count your 360mm AIO as exhaust? Can you show a photo of your system from the side?
It's 9 in total:
6x 140mm case fans (3 front in, 2 bottom in, 1 rear out)
3x 120mm fan, top out for 360mm water cooling radiator
 
Hi,
When i read your mother board data's sheet, i see that :
Max. overclocking frequency:
• 1DPC 1R Max speed up to 7200+ MHz
• 1DPC 2R Max speed up to 6600+ MHz
• 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 6400+ MHz
• 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 5600+ MHz

You have 2DPC 1R

That doesn't mean it won't work anymore. But that can be problematic

In your case, If it was stable in H4 might as well go back to H4. No ?
 
Hi,
When i read your mother board data's sheet, i see that :
Max. overclocking frequency:
• 1DPC 1R Max speed up to 7200+ MHz
• 1DPC 2R Max speed up to 6600+ MHz
• 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 6400+ MHz
• 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 5600+ MHz

You have 2DPC 1R

That doesn't mean it won't work anymore. But that can be problematic

In your case, If it was stable in H4 might as well go back to H4. No ?

Yeah you're right about "2DPC 1R" as my PC has 2 kits of 32GB G.SKILL F5-6600J3440G16GX2-TZ5RS. Each 16GB stick is single rank, so it's 2DPC 1R.

1683363917101.png


As you can see on the spec sheet on the product page, the max speed of 2DPC 1R is up to 6400+ MT meaning that "6400" is the guaranteed working speed according to MSI test lab if you have the right QVL kits, and the "+" sign means that the speed is not be limited and might be able to go higher.

For my PC, I actually didn't do enough research before building it as I hadn't built any PC for years, and that's why I bought 2 kits of 6600 32GB (2x16GB) just to max out the slots. However, my 4 sticks have been working great @6600 with the normal XMP profile without any other tweaking.

For the H5, after I cleared and discharged the BIOS, TestMem5 showed no error, but during this test, I opened the front window of my PC's case for better air flow and the RAM only reached 56.5 °C. The error in the OP could be also caused by the high temperature of the middle RAM sticks which hit 61.5 °C during the test.

1683366109160.png
 
As you can see on the spec sheet on the product page, the max speed of 2DPC 1R is up to 6400+ MT meaning that "6400" is the guaranteed working speed according to MSI test lab if you have the right QVL kits, and the "+" sign means that the speed is not be limited and might be able to go higher.

I already told you that is not true.:biggrin:
6400+ is the the speed guaranteed by MSI for the motherboard with 4 single-rank memory modules.
But that has nothing to do with the main limitation here: the CPU IMC.
Long story short: most of the users cannot get 6400MHz stable with 4 memory modules (of any kind!).
You're just lucky.:biggrin:
Again, keep an eye on the temps and also be aware:
with brand new components you might get decent temps and some stability in case of overclocking.
But after a while ...
 
Same for me i have an MSI Z790 EDGE WIFI DDR5 with 32Go SKILL 6800/34 in 1DPC and i can't OC to 7200 because my 13600K have not a good IMC.
 
Same for me i have an MSI Z790 EDGE WIFI DDR5 with 32Go SKILL 6800/34 in 1DPC and i can't OC to 7200 because my 13600K have not a good IMC.

Is it a 32GB kit of 16GBx2?

I think the latest BIOS H5 update is worth a try. You can always flash the H2 back if you don't like the H5.

I already told you that is not true.:biggrin:
6400+ is the the speed guaranteed by MSI for the motherboard with 4 single-rank memory modules.
But that has nothing to do with the main limitation here: the CPU IMC.
Long story short: most of the users cannot get 6400MHz stable with 4 memory modules (of any kind!).
You're just lucky.:biggrin:
Again, keep an eye on the temps and also be aware:
with brand new components you might get decent temps and some stability in case of overclocking.
But after a while ...

Hmm.. that's why I don't like the early or first generations of techs. I though Z790 was good enough.

Anyway, now I'm adding a 60mm fan for my RAMs. Let's see how much it helps.
 
Update II: I tested H5 for the 4th time and I think the H5 is just not good for 2DPC 1R. It's inconsistent unlike the H2. Now I'm testing the H4...

1683392813523.png
 
Update III: Back to H4 and TestMem5 extreme completed with zero error. I will test a few more times to see if H4 is as good as H2. 😃

H4 1st test finished without error:

1683413258396.png


I also added a 60mm Noctua 12V PWM fan, and during the test, the max RAM temperature only hit 55.5 °C with the front window of my PC's case closed & dust filter added (Without this small fan, it reached 61.5 °C with the front window closed & dust filter removed).

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H4 2nd test finished without error:

1683460508398.png


H4 3rd test finished without error (After Windows May Update 22H2 22621.1702):

1683741495145.png
 
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Hi,
Yes 1 DPC 1R.
I test the RAM stability with Y-Cruncher PI (5m)
6800 is OK 7000 is KO

Since I upgraded to H5, I've had quite a few in-game Windows crashes. it is possible that there is no relation but I report it

During calculate PI 5M multicore
PI.jpg


9 case fans
2x160mm (in)
2x140mm (in)
1x140mm (out)
3x120mm (out AiO)
1x120mm (out behind GC)
IMG20230509081651.jpg
 
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Hi,
Yes 1 DPC 1R.
I test the RAM stability with Y-Cruncher PI (5m)
6800 is OK 7000 is KO

Since I upgraded to H5, I've had quite a few in-game Windows crashes. it is possible that there is no relation but I report it

During calculate PI 5M multicore
View attachment 172458

9 case fans
2x160mm (in)
2x140mm (in)
1x140mm (out)
3x120mm (out AiO)
1x120mm (out behind GC)
View attachment 172456

Looks good. Intel 13th CPU should be able to handle 1 DPC 1R @7200+. For my 2DPC 1R, H2 & H4 are pretty stable @6600 while H5 was inconsistent, so I'm stick with H4 for now. By the way, how was the temperature of your RAMs during the test?
 
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