Intel Cougar Point Chipset Recall. Is the MSI P67 board affected?

[clm67]

According to the following article, Intel has acknowledged its chipset contains a silicon error. (Meaning you can't just load a new driver to fix the problem)

http://business-video.tmcnet.com/news/2011/01/31/5278452.htm

Intel has stopped supplying the bad chipsets and has made changes to the silicon to correct the problem, then re-started production.

Is MSI going to recall the current P67-based motherboards to replace them with fixed chipsets?

 

[HU16E]

Let's not forget that with some of the boards, the MEI FW is absent (Intel Management Engine Interface Firmware), & no way to install it at the user level apparently.

 

[Jack the Newbie]

Lets see how honourable the industries response will be.

Yes, and until there is an actual response, let's not jump into a mass paranoia and get all excited about an issue that may not even affect the majority of users within the next three years.

Let's not forget that with some of the boards, the MEI FW is absent, & no way to install it at the user level apparently.

Let's also not forget that from the point of view of the facts available at the moment, the ME issue is not at all related to the potential decrease of SATA performance.  Projecting other issues onto this specific chipset/SATA problem is certainly not the proper way to approach this.

-----------------

Some more info from Intel:

http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2011/01/chipset_design_flaw.php

How do I know if my PC contains the affected part? If you purchased your system before January 9th, 2011 you do not need to do anything else.

 

[Karpo]

Yes, and until there is an actual response, let's not jump into a mass paranoia and get all excited about an issue that may not even affect the majority of users within the next three years.

"Intel claims that only 5-percent of Sandy Bridge owners will experience the flaw. But speaking with manufacturers, we were told that numbers appear to be far greater than that. Some companies told us that this is definitely a "panic-mode" situation for them."
Sandy Bridge Debacle: What It Means for You

 

[Bernhard]

Yes, and until there is an actual response, let's not jump into a mass paranoia and get all excited about an issue that may not even affect the majority of users within the next three years.

I believe you are missing the vital aspect of this. Not Intel, MSI or anyone else can guarantee any of that. The speculations about percentages are just that, speculations. The statement was clear about the flawed product.
Creating mass paranoia and excitement is not the intention, on the contrary, the forum is there to assist and keep the users informed. The lack of information is what causes speculation. We are all users, including you, and as users on an official forum, there is a valid expectation that the company that this user forum supports, would make some sort of official statement, even if its as little as "We, the management of MSI are aware of this and are drafting a plan of action which will take care of ........"  Let the users have some official feedback, don't keep them in the dark.
Its the basics of the 101 of customer care. But its deadly silent, except arguments and more speculation about the probability that the user may or may not be affected. 

 

[HU16E]

the ME issue is not at all related to the potential decrease of SATA performance

That's true, but it is still 'on topic' IMO of this thread as it is directly tied into the P67 chipsets function. Let's cut to the chase here, why should a customer purchase any product that may or may not be faulty or degrade abnormally over time?

Yes, and until there is an actual response, let's not jump into a mass paranoia and get all excited about an issue that may not even affect the majority of users within the next three years.

Then let's hear it. Someone 'in the know' that can shed some light on this from the MSI corporate or engineering level?  

 

[Jack the Newbie]

I believe you are missing the vital aspect of this.

I believe, I don't.

Creating mass paranoia and excitement is not the intention, on the contrary

It may not be the intention, but this is usually the effect.

From Karpo's link:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-sata-error-sata-3,12112.html

Manufacturers told us that revised motherboards and notebooks based are unlikely to appear until at least April of this year, and Intel probably won't be supplying new chipset revisions until early to mid-March. However, replacements are unclear as manufacturers are informing us that details need to be worked out with Intel on how customers will be handled.

These details are not likely to be worked out one day after the initial press release.  Pre-Mature official statements are not likely to be made within the next couple of days. Patience is what is called for, not excitement. 

 

[Bernhard]

Pre-Mature official statements are not likely to be made within the next couple of days. Patience is what is called for, not excitement.

Maybe an example of the local distributor of a competitor's product will allow me to prove that an official statement can satisfy the users concerns. And this also proves that if there is intent, these plans can be implemented within a day. This is all that's needed to allay the concerns in the interim. How difficult would that be? End of speculation about what will happen if I have a faulty product. When the new chipsets arrive, I go to the distributor and am entitled to an exchange. No questions asked. My choice. That's whats needed from the manufacturers, and the result is happy users, in the knowledge that any potential problems are taken care of, even if no problems arise I will get a new board. 

Due to the fact that the next generation Intel Core i7/i5 CPU is socket 1155 and will only work with the Intel 6 series based motherboards we are providing a few different solutions to meet the needs of customers:
1. Customers who do not feel comfortable with this issue and wish to have peace of mind with this solution that they provide to their customers, are welcome to bring the motherboard back.  They can then buy another system based on the Intel 5 series motherboards with a Socket 1156 CPU.
2. Customers not comfortable with using these systems are also welcome to credit the boards and then purchase a new board using this credit when stock without this problem becomes available.
3.    Customers that want to still make use of latest Intel 6 series solution, will able to but will be limited to only using ports 0 and 1 with one ODD and one HDD.  They will also not be able to use the e-SATA port on boards that support this feature but will be able to connect the external HDD’s to USB.  If customers want to use more than 1 HDD, then they would need to use a third part PCI/PCI-e SATA 3.0 add on card.  Customers are more than welcome to continue using these boards until we receive the new boards when stock without this problem becomes available at which time they will be eligible to receive free exchange.ge.

I trust you now understand my point in terms of the manufacturer not disclosing anything and then hoping that the absence of any news will douse the fire.

 

[icewall]

I believe that this problem COULD BE bigger then intel wants to admit. During my first install I rebooted and a message came up saying "missing os system". It was after a bios update and it wiped my drive clean instantly 

I don't know if that is due to this problem/recall and I have no proof and I sure hope it isn't related because I never had that happen before on any previous computer! Plus the bios releases are rough around the edges to say the least. I just thought I'd mention it.

 

[clm67]

Well, let me rephrase that to a positive statement:  Even on systems with heavier usage patterns, in 85% of all cases the problem is not likely to occur at all.

Well let me rephrase that to a realistic statement: There are 84,160 users here. If each of those users had a P67 board and you have a 15% failure rate for those heavy usage patterns like mine, then please tell those 12,624 people their problems are too small to matter.

 

[Jack the Newbie]

That is not a realistic statement, but a "what-if"-statement (fictive) based on the assumption of a fictional situation (=every member of this forum owns a P67 based system).  It just negatively restates what has already been said. 

 

[dave_beast]

Fact: The Cougar Point chipset has a fault that could effect anyone

I don't want to run my computer with that failure potential hanging over my head, I suspect they'll be a mass RMA proc, eiher via retailer or manufacturer. The manufacturers will be discussing this now with Intel about how it will happen.

 

[Jack the Newbie]

The manufacturers will be discussing this now with Intel about how it will happen.

Exactly, and as soon as there is a decision, I am very positive that it will be made public.  However, such a statement is  not likely to happen be made in this forum. 

 

[clm67]

Exactly, and as soon as there is a decision, I am very positive that it will be made public.  However, such a statement is  not likely to happen be made in this forum. 

I take it you are employed by MSI?

And you're publicly saying they will not be communicating with the users of their own forum?

Okay.

 

[Jack the Newbie]

I take it you are employed by MSI?

No, I am not.

And you're publicly saying they will not be communicating with the users of their own forum?

This forum is not run by MSI but by users for users.  Official statements regarding this whole matter are more likely to appear on MSI's official product sites.  If we (the admins and moderators of this forum) get any information from MSI, we will of course share it here.

>> Forum Rules <<

This Forum is a User-To-User support community, managed and maintained by users on behalf of MSI, for the benefit of users of all ages of MSI products.

The administrators and moderators of this Forum are not employed or paid by MSI, but are volunteers; we are just users like yourself. There are a small number of MSI support staff who do post here, but you are not in direct contact with MSI Support here. If you need to communicate directly with MSI, you should look here: How to contact MSI.

Keep in mind that sales channels are bound to regional markets. In whatever way for example MSI Germany decides to handle this matter will not necessarely be the same for the US or the UK etc.

 

[Mark]

More details emerge about Intel's Cougar Point chipset flaw

"More specifics of the problem affecting Intel's 6 Series chipset (codenamed Cougar Point) have emerged courtesy of Anandtech. Speaking with Steve Smith, VP and Director of Intel Client PC Operations and Enabling, the site was able to confirm that the fault affects both P67 and H67 chipsets, pin-pointing the problem to a transistor that's connected to the 3Gbps SATA II ports.

Cougar Point has two sets of SATA ports: four that support 3Gbps operation and two that support 6Gbps. For the first set Intel states that performance of SATA-linked devices "may degrade over time". However, since 6Gbps SATA III circuits have their own independent clocking trees these ports will be unaffected by the problem."

http://www.techspot.com/news/42225-more-details-emerge-about-intels-cougar-point-chipset-flaw.html

 

[clm67]

More details emerge about Intel's Cougar Point chipset flaw

"More specifics of the problem affecting Intel's 6 Series chipset (codenamed Cougar Point) have emerged courtesy of Anandtech. Speaking with Steve Smith, VP and Director of Intel Client PC Operations and Enabling, the site was able to confirm that the fault affects both P67 and H67 chipsets, pin-pointing the problem to a transistor that's connected to the 3Gbps SATA II ports.

Cougar Point has two sets of SATA ports: four that support 3Gbps operation and two that support 6Gbps. For the first set Intel states that performance of SATA-linked devices "may degrade over time". However, since 6Gbps SATA III circuits have their own independent clocking trees these ports will be unaffected by the problem."

http://www.techspot.com/news/42225-more-details-emerge-about-intels-cougar-point-chipset-flaw.html

Yep. I read AnandTech daily. Good source of detailed information concerning this issue and many others. 

I have (2) Corsair SSDs, (3) 2TB HDDs, (4) 1TB HDDS, and a DVD+-RW in this system now and the SATA 3 ports are used in a RAID0 configuration so they definitely fall into the "heavy use" pattern described in the recall information. (I use an eSATA docking station and a USB3 Docking station to connect the two, extra drives)

I purchased my board specifically to avoid using a 3rd party SATA controller chip because of previous 3rd party SATA performance that can only be described as "crap". 

Just as an FYI, it would seem that Tiger Direct has removed the ability to RMA the board. Looking at the board in my account now states, "No refunds authorized." Contact your MFGR (or words to that effect)

Seems everyone is trying to distance themselves from the problem and let Intel handle it.

I have some work-arounds I can do, though I will be working at reduced capacity, so I'm not going to sweat it too much unless I hear word that I will not be able to swap my board for a new one.

 

[dave_beast]

Asrock and Gigabyte have issued statements, Asus is issuing one tomorrow, but nothing from MSI?

 

[Primaris]

1.  To those people who think their system boards are unaffected, I say reading is fundamental.  And, you are the reason we (the US) keep electing morons to public office. 
2.  Intel is "recalling" series 6 chips.  This is not a life, death, or safety issue.  Companies only recall stuff when it is going to cost them less to offer the recall than they will pay out after they are sued.  Lawsuits involving safety are the usual big money winners for lawyers, not my fancy piece of sand don't work.  So in my opinion, Intel thinks they really screwed the pooch here, or they would let the chips (er, dollars) fall where they may. 
3.  I am surprised no one has bitched about our real loss.  I bet most of us "system builders" bought OEM versions of our operating system.  The OEM versions of windows are tied to the first system board they are installed on.  I'm sure in the end we will have a working system board.  I am not sure Microsoft will let us not give them another $100 for a legit copy of Win 7.

 

[Jack the Newbie]

Asrock and Gigabyte have issued statements, Asus is issuing one tomorrow, but nothing from MSI?

As I have already told you, a user-to-user forum that is not operated by MSI is not the place to look for official MSI Statements.  There was a statement in the news section of the global MSI Product site (msi.com) yesterday which can be found here:

>> Intel Chipset Design Error Temporary[!] Solution <<

The important part is this one:

Also we will update any follow-up messages on www.msi.com , please pay close attention to our website.

The News-Section can be found under this link: http://www.msi.com/news-media/news/

-----------------

Also, look here:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/02/01/intel-sandy-bridge-chipset-flaw/1

Thankfully, MSI appears to be tackling the situation diligently, and we hope other motherboard manufacturers will follow suit. 'MSI takes the quality of its products very seriously,' commented the company, 'so at this moment we are investigating product batches that may be affected and, meanwhile, have stopped all shipments to our distributors and resellers. Additionally, we've asked resellers to hold sales of the Intel 6-series-based MSI products to customers until the issue can be resolved.'

In terms of product recall, the company says that 'end-users who have already purchased MSI Intel 6-Series motherboards are advised to wait for our update highlighting the actual products affected. We are working closely with Intel to help identify this as soon as possible. For MSI notebook and all-in-one product lines, we can confirm that there are currently no products in the UK channel which are affected by this issue.'

There will be more statements as soon as the situation is sorted in detail (especially with Intel).  So, please be patient.

 

[xbeatX]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4146/gigabyte-announces-6series-motherboard-replacement-program

I expect the same strategy by msi