K9ND Speedster -- CPU Support

[Hans]

When you want to use the K9ND Speedster board, do note the following:

There are two versions:
K9ND Speedster    - MS9652
K9ND Speedster2  - MS9661

The K9ND Speedster (MS9652) supports:
1. Dual Core AMD Opteron Socket F (1207) CPU's natively. This means that the board is ready to support those CPU's out-of-the-box.
2. Quad Core AMD Opteron Socket F (1207) CPU's, but only with an 8mb bios chip. Without an 8mb bios chip, the board will NOT POST. You can obtain the 8mb chip from your nearest MSI service center.

the K9ND Speedster2 (MS9661) supports:
Dual and Quad Core AMD Opteron CPU's with 115W TDP max. You do not need any physical adjustments to the board, like you need with the Speedster (MS9652).

Do note that the MS9652 does support quad core CPU's, but it cannot utilize the full functionality of these CPU's. The Enhanced AMD PowerNow!? technology with Independent Dynamic Core Technology is NOT supported. It is supported on the Speedster2.

 

[osrk]

@Hans


Sorry to reply in this thread but I'm having trouble obtaining the chip from MSI. I spoke with tech support and they said the BIOS chip was soldered into the motherboard and could not be removed despite all the pictures showing the bios chip socketed. Is there anyone I could contact to expedite this process and get an 8mbit chip with the latest BIOS for this board? I want to use 8346HE Opterons on this board.

Many thanks.

 

[ex_forum_user_3]

You have a PM with a better address.

 

[VistaViewer]

Greetings,

I have just purchased a brand new MSI Speedster Model MS-9652. I would like to know which is the latest version Quad-Core CPUs I can install and expect to run on my new board. I would like to run two of the new Shanghai version. I understand that they have some new features related to power management, such as the split-plane power bus, powering down individual cores, etc. I am very familiar with all of that and I can live without these features. Discounting those features, at the socket level, the Shanghai looks like a drop-in replacement for trhe Barcelona. So if I can make my new motherboard work with the Barcelonas then I should be able to run the Shangai, assuming support is available in the BIOS.

The QVL section for the Speedster indicates the Barcelona (Quad-core) steppings B1 and B2 are supported. But I know that these two steppings have the infamous TLB Errata problem. The B3 stepping is the first that does not have this problem, and MSI does not list that or later steppings. Furthermore, the manual states "the K9ND Speedster accommodates
the latest AMD? Opteron processor in 1207-pin package". Well, that is a very definitive statement and the latest AMD Opterons are the Shanghai versions.

Furthermore, I know that the AMD proposed workaround to avoid the TLB Errata problem was by extensive modifications to the BIOS to intercept the problem and handle it in firmware. From what I have read on various forums this can substantially slow down the computer. And of course, this modification would NOT be required in the B3 and later steppings that do not have the TLB Errata problem. Is this why you limit the MS-9652 QVL CPU Support to only the B1 and B2 Steppings?

And moving right along, on the Speedster BIOS Download page you offer the Version 2.10 firmware to support the Quad-Cores. There is also a very clear caveat (requirement) that the user must upgrade to an 8-Mbit Flash device to hold the larger BIOS. But the file size is shown as 511KB. Well that works out to under 4Mbits.

So why do I have to upgrade to an 8-Mbit Flash part to hold a 4-Mbit size BIOS?

Is that just a simple typo on the Download page for the BIOS v2.10? If the BIOS really does need 8-Mbits then the extra size is probably due to the TLB Errata fix. So, will this BIOS also work for the B3 and later steppings that do NOT have the TLB problem?

Now moving over to the Speedster2 MS-9661 support pages, the QVL CPU Support still mentions only the B1 and B2 Steppings. Apparently MSI has not gotten around to upgrading this page yet. However the manual mentions the " 45nm Quad-Core AMD Opteron". That would be the version commonly known as the Shanghai.  And on the download page the BIOS v2.00 mentions support for the Shanghai and 800MHz memory. And please note that the file size is listed as 995K, obviously requiring the larger 8-Mbit Flash part.

So here is what I would like to know... And I would appreciate as much info as you can provide.

If I upgrade my Speedster to the required 8-Mbit Flash part, can I program it with the Speedster2 BIOS v2.00 and run two Shanghai CPUs?

I don't need the split-power plane feature or the ability to power-down individual cores. Given this, I think it should work OK. What is your opinion?

OF IF NOT, will MSI offer MS-9652 BIOS support for newer Bx/Cx steppings AND FOR the newest 45nm Shanghai Opterons? I am sure I am not alone in wanting this.

Thanks.

VV

 

[ex_forum_user_3]

You must goto 8mbit chip, else it cannot support it.
And no, it doesn't use the Speedster2 BIOS, it uses Speedster1 bios.

You should not get the Speedster 1 series and expect much support for new CPU's, it's Speedster V2 you need.
V1 supports some 3~4 cores with 8Mbit, but that's it.

Quad-core on a Speedster V1 wasn't supported at all, but MSI was willing enough to make it happen with a 8mbit chip...
And no, you can not use V2 BIOS in V1.

To be short, the Speedster V1 is a dead end, as such it was replaced by V2....so it will probably not support the 45nm CPU's.

 

[VistaViewer]

Bas, Thanks for the speedy reply.

VV

 

[VistaViewer]

To be short, the Speedster V1 is a dead end, as such it was replaced by V2....so it will probably not support the 45nm CPU's.

Just did some checking and discovered that MSI has NO PLANS to sell the Speedster2 in the USA.

So the Speedster1 really is a dead end product. Apparently no follow on and never will be. Great!

 

[tcsenter]

Furthermore, the manual states "the K9ND Speedster accommodates the latest AMD? Opteron processor in 1207-pin package".  Well, that is a very definitive statement and the latest AMD Opterons are the Shanghai versions.

K9ND Speedster did support "the latest AMD Opteron processors in 1207-pin package" when the manual was written two years ago.  The downloadable user manual for K9ND Speedster V1.x was last edited/saved January 2007, which means marketing specs were finalized at least 30 days prior.  Your "brand new" motherboard was released two years ago.

Furthermore, I know that the AMD proposed workaround to avoid the TLB Errata problem was by extensive modifications to the BIOS to intercept the problem and handle it in firmware.

Actually, the TLB fix was fairly simple.  The need for BIOS ROM greater than 4Mbit has nothing to do with the TLB errata or fix.  Its due to AMD's AGESA code for Barcelona, which is much larger than for previous processors.  The same issue applied to Socket AM2 and AM2+ boards.  Socket AM2 motherboards with 4Mbit BIOS received limited (or no) support for AM2+ processors due to ROM space constraints.  All Socket AM2+ boards have 8Mbit BIOS.

And moving right along, on the Speedster BIOS Download page you offer the Version 2.10 firmware to support the Quad-Cores. There is also a very clear caveat (requirement) that the user must upgrade to an 8-Mbit Flash device to hold the larger BIOS.  But the file size is shown as 511KB.  Well that works out to under 4Mbits.  So why do I have to upgrade to an 8-Mbit Flash part to hold a 4-Mbit size BIOS?

lol!  511KB is the size of the compressed ZIP archive that contains the BIOS ROM file.  When you decompress the ZIP archive, the BIOS ROM file is 8Mbit.  You are familiar with file compression methods such as ZIP, no?

 

[VistaViewer]

tcsenter... Regardless of your criticism of my post, I was trying to make a point... A point, apparently, well over your head.

Just read the title of this thread and use some imagination and I'm sure you will figure it out.

The ONLY thing that is important to me is the quote by Bas:

... "To be short, the Speedster V1 is a dead end..."

THAT is the whole story in a nutshell. Nothing more to be said.

EOM.

 

[tcsenter]

The ONLY thing that is important to me is the quote by Bas:  ... "To be short, the Speedster V1 is a dead end..."

Really?  You could have received this answer with a question containing a total of four words:

"Can Speedster1 support Shanghai?"

But this is not what you asked.  Instead, you attempted (unsuccessfully) to present a technical argument that questioned if not challenged the assertion that Speedster1 could not support Shanghai and proceeded to introduce "evidence" that you believe contradicted this claim, all of which was flat-wrong in spite of your repeated professions to "know" a thing or two about the relevant technical subject matter.

This is NOT how a "Y / N" question is posed:

"So here is what I would like to know...And I would appreciate as much info as you can provide."

Bas answered strictly the "Y / N" question but was completely silent on all the "why" that you had raised.  I figured you might want the rest of your questions answered.

Its not my fault that most of your questions were premised in erroneous information or flawed reasoning.  If you don't want the answers, don't ask the questions.

 

[VistaViewer]

tcsenter,

Very interesting how you just have to talk down to me and show how superior you are, with your concluding remark: "You are familiar with file compression methods such as ZIP, no?"

You made a bunch of statements that are all very self-evident, and AFTER I got my answer from the vendor.

But you are just COMPELLED to respond anyway. And in reality your response is nothing more than a vehicle to rag on me and to criticize my post, and ALL so you can flex your warped ego anonymously. And you are SO BRAVE to do so, while hiding behind your alias. Incredible. There are hundreds of thousand of mental sickos just like you soiling the Internet everywhere.

{Very bad language removed}

VV

 

[tcsenter]

If you don't want the answers, don't ask the questions.

 

[Svet]

Guys, please calm down and keep good language in a forum.
Such offense discussion helps no one.
>>Please read and comply with the Forum Rules.<<
Thanks, and consider you have been warned.

 

[BillMilosz]

Where can I get the correct 8 MB BIOS EPROM for my MS9652 in order to run Barcelona quad-core CPUs on this board?

The company I bought the motherboard from is clueless, they say "no parts are available for MS9652"

I would like to mention that before I bought the MS9652 I went to the MSI web site and it says there that the K9ND motherboard supports the Barcelon Operton 2354, but as it turns out you need a new EPROM to make the K9ND work with the Barcelona Quad-core chips.  If this is the case, then MSI should at least make these 8 MB EPROMs available!

 

[BillMilosz]

Where do I get the "8 MB EPROM" that I need to support the AMD Barcelona 2354 CPU?

I point out that MSI's web site shows that the K9ND Speedster is compatible with the Barcelona quad-core chips.  I wouldn't have bought the motherboard otherwise.  see http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=prodqvl&maincat_no=133&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1131#menu  they shows this motherboard supports OS2354WAL4BGD

There's nothing on the hardware compatiblity page that says I have to check which version of K9ND I am buying etc, it very clearly says that "K9ND Speedster"  will support OS2354WAL4BGD  which is the AMD Opteron 2354 I am trying to use.

Since MSI claims this board supports Barcelona CPUs I would think MSI should either provide me with the 8 MB EPROM or let me RMA the motherboard and send me a board that will work -  or refund my money.

How do I proceed here?

 

[Svet]

W39V080APZ 8Mb:
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/W39V080APZ-8Mb-Winbond-LPC-Device-Brand-new_W0QQitemZ270287901256QQihZ017QQcategoryZ96869QQcmdZViewItem
Or search the net for the "W39V080APZ" chip.
BIOS for it can be downloaded from MSI web ==> http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=downloadfile&dno=6814&type=bios
Other options is to contact to reseller or to MSI here: http://ocss.msi.com.tw/

 

[ex_forum_user_3]

I have PM'ed you an email address, as MSI Europe will do it if you ask them nicely.

 

[BillMilosz]

I contacted MSI- USA  and they have told me that since the board is not available in the US, MSI-USA won't support it.  It does seem like MSI- Taiwan is standing behind the product, but MSI-USA is being creepy about it.  I bought it in the USA but apparently through some "grey channel."  I found it online at a reseller, how was I to know they were selling products not intended for the US market?  The reseller is in California....  that's part of the USA last time I checked.

Forum people, and someone from MSI - Taiwan, have responded with help.  Many thanks.  I think I will eventually be able to get the 8 MB Bios.  I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[ex_forum_user_3]

Typical MSI USA.

MSI Europe will help you, don't worry.

 

[BillMilosz]

MSI Tech Support (Taiwan) gave me the following info:

The MSI Part Number for the 8 MB BIOS EPROM is M31-39V0828-W03    I assume this is the chip WITH the BIOS burned into it, though I do not know that for sure.

Further, they say  the vendor P/N: WINBOND/W39V080APZ I assume this would be the raw EEPROM without the BIOS code on it.