MAG X670E Tomahawk wifi starting... too fast?

[Spagettifritz]

Hey guys,

As some of you probably know, MSI recently released the update 7E12v18 for the X670E Tomahawk Wifi, which updates AGESA and significantly shortens boot times with "Memory context restore" enabled.

So far so good, the boot times have improved drastically for me, before I had a post of 60 seconds, now less than 2 seconds! Yay!

However, I have now encountered another new problem.
I have 3 PCIe expansion cards, a 2080 Super, a Mellanox Connect-X3 10 GBit/s NIC and an Elgato 4k60 Pro Mk.2 capture card.
Before the BIOS update, everything worked perfectly. Now, with activated "memory context restore" in the latest BIOS version and the short boot times, the Elgato Capture Card is constantly missing in the system.

Only a warm reboot helps. But that's where it gets interesting:
- Cold boot -> card is not present in Windows
- Warm boot -> card is present
- Hibernate & start -> card is not present
- Sleep & start -> card is not present
- Cold start, but first into BIOS, then warm restart without changes -> card is present

What was tried:
- CMOS reset -> without success
- Capture Card tested in other PCIe slots -> without success, the error moves with the card, it is not due to the PCIe slot
- With every warm boot, the card is present and functional again
- Delay post with 3 Seconds "fake" post duration (this is an option on some boards...!) -> The BIOS of the X670E does not have that option - at least I couldn't find it.

My thoughts:
I think that the Elgato capture card has a firmware that doesn't start as fast as the PC starts from shutdown/hibernate/sleep, because it apparently does not get recognized.
Now that I'm happy not having a space rocket launching (GPU fans on 100% for 60 seconds) while booting my PC with the old, long boot times, I have a reproducible error with one of my PCIe cards.

Is anyone else having this issue with the new BIOS Update?
Is this a case for MSI to "artificially extend" boot times to give the PCIe cards a chance to initialize?
Or implement the "fake" post delay, where one can set a duration from 0 to 10 seconds delay in BIOS?
I'd appreciate every thought and suggestion of you guys.

Here is a summary of the data:
MB: X670E Tomahawk Wifi
CPU: Ryzen 7 7800x3D
RAM: 2 x Kingson DDR5-6000 32 GB RAM (HCL compatible) with A-XMP enabled for 6000 MHz
BIOS: 7E12v18
OS: Windows 10 x64 Pro

Thank You!

 

[Alan J T]

Try with ERP Ready Disabled
and Go to Wake events and Enable Wake by PCIE
See if having Active standby power 5v helps with the Elgato Dection
Up till now, it has been the Gen One Elgato cards with a detection problem

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/x670e-tomahawk-not-detecting-capture-card.390174/

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/chipset-pcie-slot-not-working-tomahawk-x670e-wifi.388978/

I will request another test with the Elgato 4K60 Gen 2 on a X670e Tomahawk board and latest bios

 

[Spagettifritz]

Hey Alan,
Thank you for your reply.
The ERP Ready setting was already set to disabled.
And Wake by PCIe also was enabled because I like to use Wake on LAN. I enable it for my "own default".

But I just noticed that I forgot to explicitly enable the "memory context restore" in BIOS after i cleared CMOS yesterday.
Therefore, the setting was on default value, which is "auto", but it did not use context restore.
So todays boot was slow again after putting it into hibernate yesterday, but the capture card still was missing in the system. I don't think that this is an inconsistency, but rather the fact, that before hibernating, it had a cold boot and the card was not present, so after waking up from hibernate it will restore the Windows system that didn't have the card present at the last full boot.
I hope my assumption is correct.

Please keep me updated regarding the tests. Thank you!

 

[Alan J T]

Please keep me updated regarding the tests. Thank you!

Will take a couple of days or more as only one location has your Capture card for testing and they will be using it for live stream tonight

 

[Spagettifritz]

Hey, a week has passed and I thought I'd check in and see how things are going. Has the team been able to run the tests yet?

 

[Alan J T]

Hey, a week has passed and I thought I'd check in and see how things are going. Has the team been able to run the tests yet?

They have not been able to get a hold of the Capture card as it has been in use it should be getting tested today or tomorrow.

 

[Alan J T]

Hey, a week has passed and I thought I'd check in and see how things are going. Has the team been able to run the tests yet?

Testing was done today and a fault was found the Elgatto 4K60 Pro would not show on Cold boot but would on a restart of the system
The problem will be investigated ETA on a Fix is not known as more testing will be needed.
I will update you when I have more news.

 

[Spagettifritz]

Hey Alan,
I have just seen that the 7E12v19 is now available for the MB. I have therefore tested the new version.
Now I have the following behavior with the Elgato Capture Card:

- Cold boot -> card IS present in Windows
- Warm boot -> card IS present
- Hibernate & start -> card is NOT present
- Sleep & start -> card is NOT present

Tested with "memory context restore" setting on "auto" (which seems to be "off" for me, but not sure) and "on".
I also performed a CMOS reset. Had to do it twice because the PC would not boot after the first CMOS reset. Everything was OK after the second reset.
Everything else still working fine.

 

[Alan J T]

I have just seen that the 7E12v19 is now available for the MB. I have therefore tested the new version.
Now I have the following behavior with the Elgato Capture Card:

MSI is still waiting for AMD to correct the problem in the base Bios
MSI has not received a timeline for a fix to be made ready yet from AMD

 

[Spagettifritz]

Hey, still no ETA on this issue?

With the current BIOS versions, the capture card is not available at all when I plug it into PCI_E3 - neither on warm nor cold boot. Meanwhile, the 10 Gbps network card in PCI_E4 works without any errors.

I don't know if something has changed again with the last two BIOS releases.

When I swap both cards (network card in PCI_E3, capture card in PCI_E4), surprisingly both work fine, but I haven't tested enough yet (sleep/hibernation/etc.).
I should mention that the configuration as I first described it was the working configuration until the problems occurred just as I started the thread.

Also, the capture card, which is now in PCI_E4 (which is an PCIe 4.0 x2 slot) is currently running at PCIe 2.0 x4 according to AIDA64... shouldn't it be max. PCIe 2.0 x2 in PCI_E4?
The network card is PCIe 3.0 x4 and GPU is full PCIe 4.0 x16.

Sorry to keep bothering you with this. The behavior just doesn't make sense.

 

[Alan J T]

Hey, still no ETA on this issue?

With the current BIOS versions, the capture card is not available at all when I plug it into PCI_E3 - neither on warm nor cold boot. Meanwhile, the 10 Gbps network card in PCI_E4 works without any errors.

I don't know if something has changed again with the last two BIOS releases.

When I swap both cards (network card in PCI_E3, capture card in PCI_E4), surprisingly both work fine, but I haven't tested enough yet (sleep/hibernation/etc.).
I should mention that the configuration as I first described it was the working configuration until the problems occurred just as I started the thread.

Also, the capture card, which is now in PCI_E4 (which is an PCIe 4.0 x2 slot) is currently running at PCIe 2.0 x4 according to AIDA64... shouldn't it be max. PCIe 2.0 x2 in PCI_E4?
The network card is PCIe 3.0 x4 and GPU is full PCIe 4.0 x16.

Sorry to keep bothering you with this. The behavior just doesn't make sense.

MSI is waiting on Corsair was last I heard

 

[Alan J T]

Also, the capture card, which is now in PCI_E4 (which is an PCIe 4.0 x2 slot) is currently running at PCIe 2.0 x4 according to AIDA64.

Sounds more like a read error with Aida 64

 

[nate.gillespi14c702c3]

Hi, I've been fighting with my new PC and this capture card for a week. Has there been any further updates or fixes that I cannot find?

msi x670e tomahawk running Bios e7e12ams.1go

GPU is in pcie 1
elgato is in pcie 3.

Sometimes it's recognized but there is no pattern as to when it is detected.

 

[allanjafe158502e4]

Same issues good think I found this forum. When the pc sits for hrs I boot it up the 4k capture card doesn’t appear anywhere. After a restart is show up. Very annoying process.

 

[Spagettifritz]

Wow. It's been 10 months since I wrote my last post here. There are other people complaining about the exact same problem and I've only added more problems.
Before I explain here exactly what the current status is...

PLEASE, MSI... FIX THESE PROBLEMS!!! IT CANNOT GET ANY MORE ANNOYING!

Now, back to the aforementioned issues.

1. The RAM training and POSTing
On my side, there are STILL issues with RAM training and POSTing.
Current status on this:
- My PC can ACTUALLY boot - absolutely fine, fully working with and without A-XMP / EXPO on 6000MHz, no problems at all
- sleep is working fine
- hibernate is working fine (most of the time)
- (warm) reboots are a DISASTER

If the PC has been running for a long time (e.g. over 2, 3, 4 or more days, but in standby for several hours at night), a clean, warm reboot is not possible in 3 out of 4 cases because the board hangs again during RAM training. Then, the only solution is a hard shutdown and boot again.
No CMOS clear, no settings changed - just a hard power off and on again.

If I then perform several reboots in series after such a successful start (tested with over 20 reboots over 2 hours after a successful boot!) then the reboot is ALWAYS clean and successful.


2. That capture card problem again...
This one is driving me crazy at the moment. I contacted Elgato/Corsair support, tried another capture card (AverMedia GC 573) and had almost exactly the same problems with it.
Current status on this:
- I completely removed the 10 Gbit/s NIC from my system!
- My capture card hasn't been in use for a few months - actually due to me moving to another house and not being able to test this stuff for quite a long time
- Now, when I wanted to start using the Elgato capture card again, my whole computer goes on strike with bluescreens as soon as the capture card is installed on the motherboard... but... not always.

Here's my message to Elgato support, when I was thinking it is the capture card doing some weird stuff:

Just did everything you told me in your last mail.

Unfortunately, it happened as follows:
- Uninstalled the driver 1.1.0.198

- First Restart -> OK
- Second Restart -> OK, but crashed with bluescreen on the boot after, so another restart had to be made -> got another minidump of this – please see the attachment of this mail.

- Installed driver version 1.1.0.192.4.1 as you recommended

- Booted normally -> OK
- Another restart about 1 hour later -> Another crash with bluescreen (didn’t get that dump, unfortunately)

I was upset about how often my computer crashed lately, so I did several things:
- de-dusted everything in the case -> OK
- checking any cable connections internally + externally -> OK
- re-seated the RAM modules -> OK
- checked all SSDs with CrystalDiskInfo -> everything OK

Conclusion: nothing wrong with the computer.

The moment I removed the capture card completely, the boots were faster and the crashes stopped completely.
The moment I installed it again, the crashes started again

But now, the interesting thing – the crashes are directly related to the hardware, as I saw just a few moments ago. Please, follow me on this one:
- Bluescreens do not occur every time AND ONLY occur when the card is installed AND ONLY shortly after system boots!
- You can actually TELL when a bluescreen is coming
-> Computer boots, Windows 10 “circle” is loading but suddenly becomes very slow, like 5% of the original speed, everything following this is also in like 5% speed
-> Finishing the boot takes ages compared to normal boots
-> Lockscreen loads wallpaper only after about 1 minute of wait time
-> Login to desktop takes 1 minute
-> Loading of desktop icons takes like another minute
-> System is almost completely unresponsive, mouse inputs are processed like once every 2 seconds (0.5 Hz) instead of 1000Hz like my mouse can do
-> Another like 3-5 minutes in which I can’t really do anything because everything is so slow
-> Then the bluescreen occurs

- With installed capture card, I tried rebooting again and again until the slow start started to happen again (like 4 reboots were made)
-> Therefore I knew that the system would crash on desktop later
-> So I pulled the capture card out of the running (!) and slowly booting system and the system became stable again INSTANTLY and finished booting and everything is super-fast, no bluescreen.

I am now writing this mail on this booted system where I pulled the capture card out at boot time.

Sorry for the long mail, but this is issue bothering me a little.
I don't even know if your technicians can do anything with the minidump because I'm beginning to suspect a hardware problem with the card.

Now, this is the mail and to be honest, I was too lazy to re-write this one entirely, so forgive me for my laziness.

Today, it turned out that almost the same error also occurs with the AverMedia capture card! As soon as the drivers and the card are installed, the system crashes... sometimes.

I got the following crashes with the Elgato card:
- 0x00000133 / no bug check string (with driver file in error "SC0710.X64.SYS" -> Elgato 4K60 Pro Mk.2)
- 0x0000009F / DRIVER_POWER_STATE_FAILURE

And this one with the AverMedia card:
- 0x1000007E / SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED (with driver file in error "avxgc573_x64.sys" -> AVermedia live gamer GC573

(debugs made with WinDbg, but I'm not a pro on this...)

As soon as i remove the cards from the system (and maybe also let the drivers installed!) the system works perfectly fine with no crashes (except the RAM training problem...)
To be clear on this one: The system is running PERFECTLY fine, unless one of those cards is involved.

I'm starting to get really mad that I bought such an expensive motherboard and after 10 months and numerous BIOS updates there are still problems with RAM and the capture cards.
Also, I read about the quantity of the issues that MSI has, regarding the RAM training/POST stuff. This seems to affect a LOT of boardsand customers and therefore, the backlash from the community/customers MUST be heard!

I'm awaiting your response, MSI...

Greets.

Edit:
I can provide you with the minidump files, as well... if anybody is interested.

 

[Alan J T]

Here's my message to Elgato support, when I was thinking it is the capture card doing some weird stuff:

Corsair was informed, and as far as I know was asked to update the firmware on the Capture cards.

 

[Spagettifritz]

Corsair was informed, and as far as I know was asked to update the firmware on the Capture cards.

How old is this information? And do you know if there was a firmware and which one fixed it?

Because my capture card has the latest firmware (tested in multiple combinations, with latest drivers / windows update drivers / elgato-support-recommended drivers) and there is no fix to be found on this.

 

[Alan J T]

How old is this information? And do you know if there was a firmware and which one fixed it?

Last year, and as far as I know, Corsair has yet to release a firmware update.

 

[Spagettifritz]

I asked Elgato/Corsair support about this. I'm waiting for their response.

And what about the RAM issues? Any fixes on this?

 

[Alan J T]

And what about the RAM issues? Any fixes on this?

Each BIOS update is supposed to improve Memory Stability



But well ya

Do you have Memory Context Restore set to Enabled
Power Down and Geardown in Advanced Memory setting set to Enabled
And also set Ignore memory change to Enabled

See if that helps with the Reboots