MAG X870 Tomahawk WiFi - Important BIOS feedback

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Globespy

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Nov 23, 2024
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After owning this board since November last year, I've tried all the various BIOS versions (including the ones that have been removed (A17 was actually ok).
I will not be alone in my experience and the specifics of this feedback, just check the subreddit.
Since the November BIOS '7E51v1A1A', every subsequent version has the same flaw - on some reboots the entire system will be slowed down like a slideshow, sometimes getting better but then going back to super-lag. This is just the startup desktop (Win 11 23H2) interaction, so nothing much going on.
I've also had this behavior start for absolutely no reason during gaming, and my FPS will literally go to unplayable levels, and the recover.
This does NOT happen ever with '7E51v1A1A', which is the BIOS I have always reverted to after trying each new BIOS and finding the same flaw.

Not sure what you guys did, but you broke something after '7E51v1A1A' and it perhaps isn't even known about since it would be sheer ineptitude to know about such a serious flaw and not do anything about it.
My specs:
9800X3D, G.Skill CL30 6000mhz DDR5 (QVL list tested on Expo 1 setting), RTX4090, SN850X M.2 drives (not using M.2 slots that have shared PCIe lanes)
Using PBO with -15 all core curve optimizer, nothing fancy. Everything else Auto/stock.

I hope that this gets resolved as you guys really have to up your game - I chose MSI because people had said mostly good things, but this board generation has been far from an easy experience and I would be hesitant to purchase another MSI board in the future if these problems are allowed to persist.
Thanks.
 
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blockjak0fe90273 said:
All the hymns of praise and defending MSI to the hilt probably didn't help.

You have always and constantly claimed that the board runs flawlessly for you. That was obviously a lie.
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I guess it all went sideways when he added the 5080. That series has really been off to an awful start, problems galore.
Happy to sit it out and wait for a better polished product with the RTX6090
 
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blockjak0fe90273 said:
You have always and constantly claimed that the board runs flawlessly for you. That was obviously a lie.
Click to expand...
You don't read or understand what other people write.
As long as I had the 6800XT in my system, I had not a single problem. Not with USB, not with boot loops. No memory instability, ...
I added my brand new RTX5080 and the slowdown problem after boot started.

My new board is a Asus ROG Strix X870-F. So you still think I am paid by MSI (as you wrote in other threads again and again)?
 
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Creeping Death said:
You don't read or understand what other people write.
As long as I had the 6800XT in my system, I had not a single problem. Not with USB, not with boot loops. No memory instability, ...
I added my brand new RTX5080 and the slowdown problem after boot started.

My new board is a Asus ROG Strix X870-F. So you still think I am paid by MSI (as you wrote in other threads again and again)?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the update mate. So no issues with Nvidia GPU on Asus board, which hopefully should help MSI figure out what the issue is if they actually bother to read their own forums - most do not, which is a travesty as how do you understand issues with the products you make when you don't invest in listening to your customers.
Sure, forums are often filled with whining, but there are still obvious trends that point to issues with the hardware and not the user when the same issues keep cropping up on the same board.

Good luck with your new board and happy PC'ing! For the price of that board you should NOT have issues! Lol
 
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Creeping Death said:
You don't read or understand what other people write.
As long as I had the 6800XT in my system, I had not a single problem. Not with USB, not with boot loops. No memory instability, ...
I added my brand new RTX5080 and the slowdown problem after boot started.

My new board is a Asus ROG Strix X870-F. So you still think I am paid by MSI (as you wrote in other threads again and again)?
Click to expand...
FWIW, if it's the same issue i experienced, it's not just RTX 50 series and the x870 tomahawk either.

4090, was fine with 7800x3d but the moment i installed 9800x3d and updated to the latest bios then, to "fix hwmonitor" bugs (msi description), the pc would be 50/50 on if the boot would be fine or a stutter mess.

Can tell it's coming too cause the msi post screen slightly freezes, window login screen slowly creeps in with very laggy audio and very slow animation/fps.

Tried going back to previous bios but it didn't help (I wonder if i should've cleared CMOS multiple times, have read it bugs... typical).

Anyway, after 2 x870 tomahawks did the same thing, i ditched it and went back to B650 tomahawk (I've used it on 3 different B650 tomahawks too), As nice as the x870 looks and the features it provides are nice, i feel it's too flawed and overall it was a downgrade for me. So much QoL just taken away from B650 when using the X870 with many programs suddenly having issues with rebooting or not even being able to find devices like openrgb.

Oh and the x870 tomahawk definitely has some issues with the USB on the back, both boards would have issues with my keyboard on boot, Scan tested my 2nd tomahawk and said USB north was faulty. (first board also had the same symptoms tho).

Next motherboard will not be MSI.

EDIT:

Also i did link it to GPU drivers too because i found it weird that when setting up windows, i had no stutter boots, installing nvidia drivers is where it happened, i tried DDU and older drivers too, the same drivers that gave me issues with x870 tomahawk and 9800x3d, works on a 7800x3d, or on B650 (with 9800x3d). Just some horrible driver/bios BS going on.
 
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I switched to the GIGABYTE B850 AORUS ELITE about two weeks ago, and everything is working perfectly now. It seems that MSI is still ignoring the issue, which is what I expected. I understand that mistakes happen because products are made by people, but their response was truly disappointing. I won't be buying any MSI motherboards again, and I know many others feel the same.
 
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After a long odyssey, I can also report back that the platform is now running flawlessly for me. In another attempt, I installed the latest BIOS version A44, loaded the factory default settings before and after the flash, and the issue disappeared. I found that my (XMP) RAM overclock with DDR5-6400 CL32 (XMP) works perfectly with version 1A1A and 1.25V SoC—boots fine and passes stress tests without errors. However, with BIOS version A44, I experienced the described boot issues, where the GPU would only negotiate PCIe 1.0 to 3.0 speeds and everything feels very laggy. When I leave all voltages on "Auto," the board sets SoC to 1.30V automatically, and I no longer have any boot errors.

It seems that RAM overclocking behavior has changed in all versions after 1A1A, and I suspect that in the earlier BIOS versions I tested, loading the factory defaults after flashing didn’t fully apply all settings. Even with version 1A1A, I occasionally had strange issues - for example, my system would freeze during almost every Nvidia driver update. So it’s likely that 64GB DDR5-6400 CL32 isn’t 100% stable even on 1A1A, and the instability just manifests differently in the later versions. Looking at similar reports in this forum, many of you also involve very high RAM speeds like DDR5-6400. I know it sounds weird, that instable RAM can cause issues on the PCIe Connection of the GPU, but the issue on my system is 100% reproducable. If i load XMP and set vSOC to "AMD Overclock" 1,25v I am getting the boot issues with PCIe 1.0 - 3.0 every other boot for my Nvidia 4070TiS. If i load the XMP Profile without any manual voltages, the Board boots everytime without issues, while delivering the AMD specified maximum of 1,30v SoC.

I recommend loading the factory default settings both before and after flashing the BIOS. In my current configuration, I’ve had no problems at all for about a week now. This is probably the price of running hardware right at its limits (64GB DDR5-6400 CL32 Gear 1 with tight sub-timings). At least the power connector isn't melting and all the issues were only temporary. At this point, I also want to give MSI some credit for the “Memory High Efficiency” feature—it really simplifies RAM overclocking, and the preset sub-timings closely match what you'd find in online OC guides. On my previous Asus Prime Z690 board for LGA1700, I had to manually calculate and enter every single timing, whereas with the MSI Tomahawk it’s just a few clicks.
My System:
- Ryzen 9800X3D with PBO +200/-15 and 2133FCLK
- 64GB DDR5-6400 32-40-40-60-100
- Nvidia 4070 Ti Super 16GB
- WD SN850X PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD
- MSI X870 Tomahawk WiFi AM5 Mainboard
1748618316450.png
 
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andreas.brunner.198155902da said:
After a long odyssey, I can also report back that the platform is now running flawlessly for me. In another attempt, I installed the latest BIOS version A44, loaded the factory default settings before and after the flash, and the issue disappeared. I found that my (XMP) RAM overclock with DDR5-6400 CL32 (XMP) works perfectly with version 1A1A and 1.25V SoC—boots fine and passes stress tests without errors. However, with BIOS version A44, I experienced the described boot issues, where the GPU would only negotiate PCIe 1.0 to 3.0 speeds and everything feels very laggy. When I leave all voltages on "Auto," the board sets SoC to 1.30V automatically, and I no longer have any boot errors.

It seems that RAM overclocking behavior has changed in all versions after 1A1A, and I suspect that in the earlier BIOS versions I tested, loading the factory defaults after flashing didn’t fully apply all settings. Even with version 1A1A, I occasionally had strange issues - for example, my system would freeze during almost every Nvidia driver update. So it’s likely that 64GB DDR5-6400 CL32 isn’t 100% stable even on 1A1A, and the instability just manifests differently in the later versions. Looking at similar reports in this forum, many of you also involve very high RAM speeds like DDR5-6400. I know it sounds weird, that instable RAM can cause issues on the PCIe Connection of the GPU, but the issue on my system is 100% reproducable. If i load XMP and set vSOC to "AMD Overclock" 1,25v I am getting the boot issues with PCIe 1.0 - 3.0 every other boot for my Nvidia 4070TiS. If i load the XMP Profile without any manual voltages, the Board boots everytime without issues, while delivering the AMD specified maximum of 1,30v SoC.

I recommend loading the factory default settings both before and after flashing the BIOS. In my current configuration, I’ve had no problems at all for about a week now. This is probably the price of running hardware right at its limits (64GB DDR5-6400 CL32 Gear 1 with tight sub-timings). At least the power connector isn't melting and all the issues were only temporary. At this point, I also want to give MSI some credit for the “Memory High Efficiency” feature—it really simplifies RAM overclocking, and the preset sub-timings closely match what you'd find in online OC guides. On my previous Asus Prime Z690 board for LGA1700, I had to manually calculate and enter every single timing, whereas with the MSI Tomahawk it’s just a few clicks.
My System:
- Ryzen 9800X3D with PBO +200/-15 and 2133FCLK
- 64GB DDR5-6400 32-40-40-60-100
- Nvidia 4070 Ti Super 16GB
- WD SN850X PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD
- MSI X870 Tomahawk WiFi AM5 Mainboard
View attachment 202526
Click to expand...
So you think the 'cure' to the laggy desktop problems is to leave the VSOC on Auto?
The thing is, I've never changed it until recently and have had the lag in every BIOS to date - admittedly I haven't tried the latest A44 (on the previous version), mostly because I am waiting to see the problem re-appear again at some point and it would have been a wasted effort having to put back in all my BIOS settings.
That said, unless you just omitted to say so, it sounds like you are NOT clearing CMOS in your BIOS update?
Instead, you are loading defaults, doing the flash, loading defaults again, then applying your previous profile with VSOC on Auto?
I thought upgrading the BIOS deleted saved BIOS profiles? Or are you just manually entering all your info again?
Appreciate the update, it would be nice to think this issue is resolved, however like you even with A1A I was experiencing very occasional laggy boots, so unless MSI can be bothered telling their customers what they are doing in these BIOS updates, and being specific about issues like this (lag), then it's hard to say if they even care about doing anything specific to resolve frequently reported issues?
I'll wait a few weeks to see if others are reporting back that they are having issues - there was another user (@jake877157102da) who says the lag is fixed, but when checking his previous posts after first updating to this version he immediately had the lag issue, so makes me wonder if it's going to show up again at some point.
My biggest issue right now is that my PC will not sleep and there's nothing keeping it from sleeping (have ran every possible power query through terminal/command line) and this is a fresh install of Win 11. I have to manually put it to sleep every night (FN+F8).
 
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My System is now 10 Days in a row completely stable - before it was at best stable for a few boots until the PCIe Gen issues of the GPU and laggy System occured again. At least for me its 100% caused by stress or hidden instability of something related with memory.

So if you have this issue you could just try to load default Settings with DDR5-4800 and everything on auto and if your system doesnt have any issues you have the answer you were looking for.
 
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andreas.brunner.198155902da said:
My System is now 10 Days in a row completely stable - before it was at best stable for a few boots until the PCIe Gen issues of the GPU and laggy System occured again. At least for me its 100% caused by stress or hidden instability of something related with memory.

So if you have this issue you could just try to load default Settings with DDR5-4800 and everything on auto and if your system doesnt have any issues you have the answer you were looking for.
Click to expand...
Yep, but didn't help those (like me) who purchased QVOL tested kits and still have the problem, which kinda indicates a bigger issue.
 
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Well.... It's been a while, but eh... Guess which problem they still haven't fixed?!

Currently using a Ryzen 7700 (unable to afford the 9800X3D I wanted to get, for now) on the MSI MPG X870E Carbon WiFi, which I bought a year ago (used).

Initially, I had installed the 7E49v1A8 BIOS, as it was supposed to be the latest (good??)release, but as I now understand it, only the ones with a 0 behind it are 'official' non-beta releases?? I don't know, I saw that on some other thread on reddit.
Anyway, that A8 one caused all sorts of problems, so I rolled it back to the 7E49v1A70 BIOS in hopes of solving them, but...
The biggest problem of the first boot lag persists and the other main issue I have, when I connect ANYTHING to the USB port next to the 'flash BIOS' button, the PC just refuses to boot, because of a USB error (d4). I even threw out a perfectly functional USB hub, because I thought that must have been causing problems, because even when it did boot, the hub would sometimes just disconnect, or not work, so... Must be the hub then, right??? NOPE!!

One of the 'fun' parts is, I bought this mainboard almost a full year ago, but due to all sorts of problems (including breaking my ankle, while away from home and being stranded for 6 weeks), wasn't able to install it until just a few weeks ago. I guess I know now the broken battery socket (Which he did not mention, but I did fix) was NOT the main problem why the previous owner sold it...
But hey, the good news is, I already sold my Intel system- oh!! Wait, that is NOT good news in this case, now is it?! Fudge me for thinking I would like to go back to AMD, because Intel gets way too hot and uses too much power and has the possible corrosion issue!! (I had gotten the i7 13700K JUST before THAT news hit! And, also a 'fun' thing: The older MSI BIOS for that worked better than ANY newer one with the 'intel guideline' nonsense that actually made everything WORSE!! Higher voltage, higher powerdraw, higher temps, LOWER performance numbers!!)

Anyway, pretty much every morning, the PC starts up slow AF. I did not know what was causing it, I thought it had something to do with OpenRGB, or maybe something else, but in the end, even after 3 new Windows installs, nothing changed! I was ABOUT to do another Windows re-install, with a different Windows 11 version, on a different SSD as a sanity check, but looking into this problem some more, I finally found the Reddit thread that linked me to this forum post, which shows me that this has been a problem for ages...

Great, lovely...
 
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mikeysinne156b02e5 said:
Well.... It's been a while, but eh... Guess which problem they still haven't fixed?!

Currently using a Ryzen 7700 (unable to afford the 9800X3D I wanted to get, for now) on the MSI MPG X870E Carbon WiFi, which I bought a year ago (used).

Initially, I had installed the 7E49v1A8 BIOS, as it was supposed to be the latest (good??)release, but as I now understand it, only the ones with a 0 behind it are 'official' non-beta releases?? I don't know, I saw that on some other thread on reddit.
Anyway, that A8 one caused all sorts of problems, so I rolled it back to the 7E49v1A70 BIOS in hopes of solving them, but...
The biggest problem of the first boot lag persists and the other main issue I have, when I connect ANYTHING to the USB port next to the 'flash BIOS' button, the PC just refuses to boot, because of a USB error (d4). I even threw out a perfectly functional USB hub, because I thought that must have been causing problems, because even when it did boot, the hub would sometimes just disconnect, or not work, so... Must be the hub then, right??? NOPE!!

One of the 'fun' parts is, I bought this mainboard almost a full year ago, but due to all sorts of problems (including breaking my ankle, while away from home and being stranded for 6 weeks), wasn't able to install it until just a few weeks ago. I guess I know now the broken battery socket (Which he did not mention, but I did fix) was NOT the main problem why the previous owner sold it...
But hey, the good news is, I already sold my Intel system- oh!! Wait, that is NOT good news in this case, now is it?! Fudge me for thinking I would like to go back to AMD, because Intel gets way too hot and uses too much power and has the possible corrosion issue!! (I had gotten the i7 13700K JUST before THAT news hit! And, also a 'fun' thing: The older MSI BIOS for that worked better than ANY newer one with the 'intel guideline' nonsense that actually made everything WORSE!! Higher voltage, higher powerdraw, higher temps, LOWER performance numbers!!)

Anyway, pretty much every morning, the PC starts up slow AF. I did not know what was causing it, I thought it had something to do with OpenRGB, or maybe something else, but in the end, even after 3 new Windows installs, nothing changed! I was ABOUT to do another Windows re-install, with a different Windows 11 version, on a different SSD as a sanity check, but looking into this problem some more, I finally found the Reddit thread that linked me to this forum post, which shows me that this has been a problem for ages...

Great, lovely...
Click to expand...
Just enable 'FCH Spread Spectrum' in BIOS, save and restart and the problem should be gone.
They released a new BIOS a few days ago that specifically states it resolved this exact issue, but personally I'm gonna wait a week or two while the guinea pigs test it out.
TBH - Spread Spectrum has zero impact that you will notice on modern PC's, and if you happen to have peripherals that cause EMI (think direct drive motors for racing/flight motion simulators), then it's a good feature to enable!
Hope that helps.
 
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