MAG X870E TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI PZ - USB 4 Speed limited to 5Gbps after Cold Boot

[neo.sik15b702e9]

I have the following Problem with my New MSI Motherboard (MAG X870E TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI PZ): after a Cold Boot (Computer off over night, with or without disconnecting power from the PSU), USB4 via the ASM4242 Controller is limited to 430 MB/s (USB3 Speed). I have to restart the computer to get the full speed. After the restart, it runs stable at the expected speed.
I tried all kinds of different Settings in the Bios like to deactivate "ErP Ready" and ASPM, i also tried to set pcie speed manual in the bios for every device. no change. I also updated the Bios to 7E84v1A30 and then to 7E84v1A33 yesterday. No change. I had several long Conversations with AI about this, seems a Firmware defect that causes to fail to initialize the ASM4242 properly after a the Controller was completely powered off.
The only real fix seems to be a Bios Update.
I have an 9800X3D CPU, 64GB DDR5 Kingston RAM. I also have all 4 M.2 filled with SSDs. So the ASM4242 runs at 2 lanes only (that is why i got this MB).
So i ask MSI to get me a Bios that fixes this Error and properly initialized the USB4 Controller every time it boots. thx!

 

[ericj159802e9]

MSI does not keep tabs on this forums. It is a end user support forum. Moderators do keep an eye on things and will forward certain problems to MSI. So it is best to open a support ticket with MSI to inform them.

 

[fatedust]

Just being curious, what if you let USB 40Gbps Type-C ports run at full speed and does not share the lanes with M2_2?

USB4 via the ASM4242 Controller is limited to 430 MB/s (USB3 Speed).

Is that read or write speed?

Also, how about go to Device Manger > right click on the USB 4 device and select Properties > Polices tab > select "Better performance" and check "Enable write cache on the device"?
What USB4 device is connected?

 

[neo.sik15b702e9]

Just being curious, what if you let USB 40Gbps Type-C ports run at full speed and does not share the lanes with M2_2?


Is that read or write speed?

Also, how about go to Device Manger > right click on the USB 4 device and select Properties > Polices tab > select "Better performance" and check "Enable write cache on the device"?
What USB4 device is connected?

i have not tested without ssd. but again, i need the ssd. It is usb3 fallback, because of initialization fail at cold boot. reboot fixes the speed, its not the USB device, its the state of the controller that limits the speed to 430 MB/s Read and Write. Its just like 2 5Gbps usb3 C ports.
I tried to contact MSI support, but after giving my serial number, i am directed to contact the seller. So it seems there is no MSI support. That is why i posted in the forum here.
I am actually thinking to contact the seller and return the board. because that seems the only solution.

 

[neo.sik15b702e9]

I tested the behavior with the full 4 lanes on the ASM4242 Controller (M.2_2 SSD was disabled).
After a Cold Start, instead of the 430MB/s i get with 2 lanes, i got exactly the double amount of that, 860MB/s with my 20Gbps m.2 USB drive!
What this means is, the ASM4242 Controller is wrongly initiated after every Cold Start in any Situation and is in a fallback state. It is not delivering USB4 Speed as advertised!
Only fix that works is, to restart the Computer. It works every single time to restore full USB4 functionality.
I do not believe MSI will ever fix this with a Bios update. There is zero support from MSI, and am advised to contact the seller instead.

 

[ericj159802e9]

After a Cold Start, instead of the 430MB/s i get with 2 lanes, i got exactly the double amount of that, 860MB/s with my 20Gbps m.2 USB drive!
What this means is, the ASM4242 Controller is wrongly initiated after every Cold Start in any Situation and is in a fallback state. It is not delivering USB4 Speed as advertised!

If that is something you are able to reproduce it is worth contacting support and present it in a very structured manner. Think hypothesis and steps to reproduce in a clearly formatted fashion. That should typically draw their attention.

 

[fatedust]

my 20Gbps m.2 USB drive!

What M.2 SSD USB adapter/enclosure do you have?
Maybe there is a compatibility issue with the bridge chip (usually Realtek or Asmedia) inside the M.2 SSD USB adapter/enclosure?

 

[neo.sik15b702e9]

What M.2 SSD USB adapter/enclosure do you have?
Maybe there is a compatibility issue with the bridge chip (usually Realtek or Asmedia) inside the M.2 SSD USB adapter/enclosure?

Good point! Lets assume that there is is a compatibility issue with the bridge chip of all my Drives, then would that compatibility issue magically fix itself after i restart the Computer? And then reappear, after i do a Cold-Start? No, i have tested 5 different drives, 2 10Gbps ones from IcyBox, 1 20Gbps from Silverstone, and 2 20Gbps from ugreen. They all produce the same behavior i described.
Another thing, supposedly those usb4 ports support Display Port out, right? If so, how can they work correctly, if the Ports only have 430 or 860MB/s? Display-port 4K/60Hz/8bit requires 11,94 Gbit/s, and 10bit requires 14,93 Gbit/s (ca. 1,87 GB/s). So that means Display-port is also broken on my Board, because of the Bandwidth issue i have. (I have not tested this but numbers do not lie).

 

[ericj159802e9]

No, i have tested 5 different drives,

I assume you mean enclosures. Is that correct?

2 10Gbps ones from IcyBox, 1 20Gbps from Silverstone, and 2 20Gbps from ugreen. They all produce the same behavior i described.

What if they all use the bridge chip? There are only a limited number of bridge chips out there. What bridge chips do these enclosures use?

Another thing, supposedly those usb4 ports support Display Port out, right? If so, how can they work correctly, if the Ports only have 430 or 860MB/s? Display-port 4K/60Hz/8bit requires 11,94 Gbit/s, and 10bit requires 14,93 Gbit/s (ca. 1,87 GB/s). So that means Display-port is also broken on my Board, because of the Bandwidth issue i have. (I have not tested this but numbers do not lie).

It is unfortunate you were not able to test with Display Port.

 

[neo.sik15b702e9]

I assume you mean enclosures. Is that correct?

What if they all use the bridge chip? There are only a limited number of bridge chips out there. What bridge chips do these enclosures use?

It is unfortunate you were not able to test with Display Port.

enclosures is correct. Again, it is absolutely illogical to think, that a restart of a PC could fix an alleged incompatibility with different bridge chips on several devices. If there is a hardware incompatibility with all those different bridge chips, those incompatibilities would remain after a restart. It would always be incompatible, i would always see lower performance. Those bridge chips would not magically replace themself with compatible ones after a restart to then magically replace themself again with incompatible ones for the next cold start. I hope this is clear now.
As soon as i get a diplayport to usbc cable from MSI (probably never), i could test it, otherwise numbers do not lie.

 

[Svet]

Can you provide the information about the bridge chip used in his M.2 enclosure?

It's been tested with two different M.2 enclosures with different ASmedia bridge chips (1x ASM2464PD, 1x ASM2362),
and issue cannot be duplicated.

Test configuration:
MB: X870E TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI PZ
CPU: 9800X3D
BIOS: 1A33 (default settings)
M2_1: MSI M450 1TB (boot drive)
M2_2: MSI M480 PRO 4TB
The bridge chip inside my M.2 enclosure: 1x ASM2464PD, 1x ASM2362

 

[ericj159802e9]

Again, it is absolutely illogical to think, that a restart of a PC could fix an alleged incompatibility with different bridge chips on several devices. If there is a hardware incompatibility with all those different bridge chips, those incompatibilities would remain after a restart

We have to consider that different behavior before and after restart could be a symptom. The question remains which bridge chips are involved. Could you provide us with a list?

 

[Jarous1]

Could it be caused by Fast Boot being enabled, or something like that? Maybe something isn't initializing properly every time, and that's causing these issues.

 

[neo.sik15b702e9]

Can you provide the information about the bridge chip used in his M.2 enclosure?

It's been tested with two different M.2 enclosures with different ASmedia bridge chips (1x ASM2464PD, 1x ASM2362),
and issue cannot be duplicated.

Test configuration:
MB: X870E TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI PZ
CPU: 9800X3D
BIOS: 1A33 (default settings)
M2_1: MSI M450 1TB (boot drive)
M2_2: MSI M480 PRO 4TB
The bridge chip inside my M.2 enclosure: 1x ASM2464PD, 1x ASM2362

View attachment 210435View attachment 210436

Ok here is the list:
1. Silverstone Technology SST-MS12, ASMedia ASM2364 (with official Firmware Update) https://www.amazon.de/-/en/SilverSt...=22WYUVRPC6WUE&sprefix=ms12+m.,aps,105&sr=8-1
2. UGREEN 20Gbps NVME SATA SSD Enclosure USB C 3.2 Gen 2x2, Supposedly RTL9220, https://www.amazon.de/-/en/UGREEN-E...4MFNIR6G&sprefix=ugreen+20gbps,aps,110&sr=8-1
3. ICY BOX SSD M.2 NVMe enclosure, USB 3.1 (Gen2, 10 Gbps), Uses the JMicron JMS583 according to Grok, https://www.amazon.de/-/en/ICY-BOX-...2S&sprefix=ib+-1817m-c31",aps,176&sr=8-5&th=1
All these Enclosures work FINE with the expected MAX-SPEED, AFTER the Computer was Restarted, after a Cold Boot (no power during the night). Before the Restart, All of these Enclosures where limited to 430 MB/s (860 MB/s with 4 full lanes) directly after the Cold-Boot 100% of the time.
That was the Problem. According to Grok and ChatGPT, the cause is a failed initialization of the ASM4242 after a Cold-Boot, causing the ASM4242 into a fail-back state, that is then fixed with the Restart. Allegedly, this is a known Problem with that ASM4242 on some boards.
Also, i did not found a Bios Option to disable "Fast-Boot" (seems to not exist in the Bios).
And, as MSIs support Site told me, i contacted the seller (Alternate) and RMAed the Board. They have it now, i can no longer test anything with it. If i get a new one, i will test that.

 

[donmiw157c02e1]

I'm wondering how you can test the max speed of a USB 4 port without a USB 4 device connected to it. An NVMe drive connected via USB-C 3.2 Gen2 can realistically deliver a maximum of about 1000 MB/s. Theoretically, it could go up to 10 Gbps (1250 MB/s), but in reality, due to overhead, the controller, and the protocol, it’s around 800–1000 MB/s with good NVMe enclosures.
Also, it is not always sure that a USB4 Port supports USB 3.Gen2x2 ! It supports Gen2 but not always Gen2x2 what is necessary to get 20 GBit (otherwise you only get 10 GBit). If the USB4 port on our board supports USB 3.2 Gen2x2 I don't know (edit: ASM4242 chipset from our board should support USB 3.Gen2x2)
BTW, I cannot reproduce the error you described. I have the max possible speed on my USB4 port on this board after a BOOT (not a Reboot!) with a connected USB-C 3.2Gen2 Crucial X9 Pro 4 TB portable disk .