Mainboard is heavily limiting my CPU

Joined
Dec 12, 2023
Messages
4
Hello,

I really need help.

This is my setup
Phanteks Eclipse G360A
Intel i7-13700F mit 8C+8c/24T/ 5.20GHz Turbotakt, 30MB Cache
Endorfy Navis F240 ARGB
MSI PRO B760-P WIFI DDR4
32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 Kingston 3600MHz Fury Beast RGB
1TB MSI M450 Spatium M.2 PCIe 4.0 x4 NVMe (L 3600MB/s ; S 3000MB/s)
2TB SATA 6GB/s 7200rpm
12GB NVIDIA RTX4070
750W MSI MAG A750GL 80+Gold ATX 3.0 - PCIE 5

Ich 3D Mark TimeSpy the max score for cpu is around 13200

I habe a second setup which is almost the same just with a gigabyte Mainboard where I have a cpu score of around 16000.

Also I use premiere pro and I can really feel and see that the performance is not as good as the other setup. Can someone please help me to get the settings right?

The temps are not the problem. Around 66C
 
Here is HW info
Someone told me this :

When I look at this, it has reached the 100-degree mark and protects itself by consuming less power."

"I also looked at the voltage converters. I believe they only come into play once the temperature reaches 80 degrees, not at 60 degrees."

Because HWINFO doesn't indicate that your PC is trying to protect itself."

And told me to ask msi
 

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You can't really see anything in the photo you posted.
The best method is to remove the Endorf Navis F240 ARGB and throw it in the trash, then buy Arctic 280, this way you will get rid of excessive temperatures, if any, and at the same time cool the power supply section if it is bad, by the way the letter P does not bode well if it's all about the power supply sections.
Honestly, I'm in a hurry to get to work so I don't have time to look for the parameters of your motherboard.
Run Cinebenchr23 in multicore for 10 minutes, while turning on the "sensor" button visible in your photo. Then, for these 10 minutes, observe the temperatures on individual cores of your processor, if you have a problem, something will light up red, if in CB23 your temperatures reach 99 degrees and above, then the Endorfs should be thrown away.
The second thing is the Thermalright LGA1700-BCF bracket, if you don't have it, there is a huge chance that your processor is banana-shaped and that's why Endorfy, which is garbage by the way, does not press the entire surface to the IHS of the processor.
You can buy it on Amazon for a few euros, also Arctic Liquid 280, but prefer 360.
I myself have an i7 14700 with a bracket from Thermalright and an Arctic 360, in idel my temperatures range from 27 degrees to 31. In cinebench r23 they do not exceed 88 degrees, where my processor is an overclocked version of yours with a larger number of cores.
 
VRMos-1.png
cpu_trottling-1.png
cpu_leistungsaufnahme-1.png

Maybe this pictures are better.
It doesn't seem like a temp problem. Average in 3D Mark ist 66c.

I also have a second setup which just works perfectly and a lot better with stock bios settings I just enabled xmp :

be quiet! Pure Base 500FX
Intel i7-13700F mit 8C+8c/24T/ 5.20GHz Turbotakt, 30MB Cache
Enermax Liqmax III ARGB 240
Gigabyte B760 GAMING X DDR4
32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 Kingston 3600MHz Fury Beast
1TB Samsung PM9B1 M.2 PCIe 4.0 x4 NVME (L 3600MB/s ; S 3000MB/s)
2TB SATA 6GB/s 7200rpm
8GB NVIDIA RTX3070
700W be quiet! PurePower 11
 
For boards supporting the current 12th/13th/14th gen CPUs, your board PRO B760-P WIFI DDR4 uses a more low-end VRM:

Screenshot 2023-12-14 at 12-42-29 PRO B760-P WIFI DDR4.png


MSI always exaggerate and call it 12+2 (or 12+1+1) "Duet Rail", but it's really 6+2 phases, with doubled components to spread the thermal load.

This board's VRM is made up of cheap discrete MOSFETs, that's the sign that (for the requirements of i7/i9 CPUs) it's still considered a low-end solution. The MOSFETs are the little black chips that are in groups of four. But any board that was made with an i7/i9 in mind will use either DrMOS or Smart Powerstages (SPS), which have a higher efficiency than discrete MOSFETs, because compared to them, they bundle everything in a single component which results in far lower switching losses. The Smart Powerstages even have sensors that can optimize the switching further.

Now, that's difficult to understand for someone that hasn't heard about VRMs, but just know that it can overwhelm a cheaper VRM if you really use a high-end CPU to its maximum capability (and why wouldn't you, otherwise you'd get a cheap CPU model). Here i explain more how the board makers try to save money on the VRM components whenever possible.

Here and here i posted some explanations about similar things before, and here you can read what happens when buy a really low-end board: The money on an i7 is completely wasted there, because the board completely restricts the power draw, otherwise the VRM would get overwhelmed. So your board is not really low-end, let's called it upper-low-end if there is such a thing. At least it has doubled MOSFETs / chokes, at least it has VRM heatsinks. But for an i7/i9, i would still prefer a board with DrMOS or SPS.

Of course, for an i7/i9 you also have to take the cooling into account, especially the 14th gen can go to crazy power draw numbers, see here. So no matter the board, if you don't have high-end cooling, you can't run it unrestricted anyway.

As for the 13700 vs. 13700K, the 13700 doesn't allow overclocking, plus it has a much lower base clock (which is necessary, because that's the scenario for which the TDP is defined), and 200 MHz lower turbo clocks. But when you disregard the official power limits (like almost any board will offer), then it's just like a slightly slower 13700K and will have the power draw according to that.

Only when you strictly set the power limits to the official numbers (in other words, selecting "Boxed cooler" on the cooler selection prompt, which is really the power limits prompt), then you will have the power draw that Intel states for it, more or less. But then the performance also decreases considerably, because remember, the TDP is only 65W (with a whopping 219W MTP, Maximum Turbo Power as per Intel spec)! This means, it will draw the MTP for half a minute, then it gets brutally limited to 65W power draw, which means it would have to drastically lower the clocks to stay within that limit, perhaps right down to the 2.10 GHz base clock (for the P-cores). You can imagine what kind of performance you get at 2.1 GHz vs. the 5.2 GHz maximum turbo clocks. So nobody in their right mind restricts it to 65W after half a minute, unless it runs in an office PC or cheap OEM system where they use cheap cooling and have to keep the temperatures and noise under control somehow. Otherwise you want to allow at least 150-200W or so indefinitely to have a proper performance from this CPU.

So the best thing to do is to set the power limits yourself, according to what your cooling can actually handle. I have described the entire procedure here (although in that thread, the user has a high-end AIO, so he can use high power limits). First you'd set power limits roughly according to what you think your cooling can get rid of, even with long periods of full load. I don't know how capable your Endorfy Navis F240 ARGB is, maybe it can get rid of 180W while still keeping the CPU temperature within the 80°C range. Then you'd set that as a power limit in the BIOS, and check the resulting temperatures with Cinebench, which creates fully multithreaded conventional load (the highest load that does not come from a stress testing tool like Prime95). If they're mid-80°C, perfect. Above 90°C, you have to reduce the limits, below 80°C you can raise them if you want, of course it also depends on the noise you want to tolerate, that has to do with the fan curves. I recommend the highest point of the curve (full fan speeds) at 85° or 90°C. I would try to stay away from the 90°C range, that slowly enters thermal throttling territory, it is not good to rely on that, and you want to have some headroom for higher ambient temperatures.

Then, to reduce the CPU's power draw in all load states, you can work with CPU Lite Load. Again, i explain that in the thread, also follow the links in there. No need to change the power limits from what you determined though, because those limits only have to do with your cooling capabilities, they don't change once you determined what your cooling can handle. But when you make the CPU draw a bit less power, it will throttle a bit less under full load, and it can boost the clocks a bit higher.

As for checking the sensors, it's important to see all the sensors at once, so do it according to the thread i linked ("here" in bold), with HWinfo64 Sensors open and expanded, and Cinebench. But i can already see that running without power limits is too much for your cooler, 240W CPU Package Power leads to thermal throttling. So you're gonna have to set power limits, i recommend testing with 180W.
 
Last edited:
For boards supporting the current 12th/13th/14th gen CPUs, your board PRO B760-P WIFI DDR4 uses a more low-end VRM:

View attachment 181911

MSI always exaggerate and call it 12+2 (or 12+1+1) "Duet Rail", but it's really 6+2 phases, with doubled components to spread the thermal load.

This board's VRM is made up of cheap discrete MOSFETs, that's the sign that (for the requirements of i7/i9 CPUs) it's still considered a low-end solution. The MOSFETs are the little black chips that are in groups of four. But any board that was made with an i7/i9 in mind will use either DrMOS or Smart Powerstages (SPS), which have a higher efficiency than discrete MOSFETs, because compared to them, they bundle everything in a single component which results in far lower switching losses. The Smart Powerstages even have sensors that can optimize the switching further.

Now, that's difficult to understand for someone that hasn't heard about VRMs, but just know that it can overwhelm a cheaper VRM if you really use a high-end CPU to its maximum capability (and why wouldn't you, otherwise you'd get a cheap CPU model). Here i explain more how the board makers try to save money on the VRM components whenever possible.

Here and here i posted some explanations about similar things before, and here you can read what happens when buy a really low-end board: The money on an i7 is completely wasted there, because the board completely restricts the power draw, otherwise the VRM would get overwhelmed. So your board is not really low-end, let's called it upper-low-end if there is such a thing. At least it has doubled MOSFETs / chokes, at least it has VRM heatsinks. But for an i7/i9, i would still prefer a board with DrMOS or SPS.

Of course, for an i7/i9 you also have to take the cooling into account, especially the 14th gen can go to crazy power draw numbers, see here. So no matter the board, if you don't have high-end cooling, you can't run it unrestricted anyway.

As for the 13700 vs. 13700K, the 13700 doesn't allow overclocking, plus it has a much lower base clock (which is necessary, because that's the scenario for which the TDP is defined), and 200 MHz lower turbo clocks. But when you disregard the official power limits (like almost any board will offer), then it's just like a slightly slower 13700K and will have the power draw according to that.

Only when you strictly set the power limits to the official numbers (in other words, selecting "Boxed cooler" on the cooler selection prompt, which is really the power limits prompt), then you will have the power draw that Intel states for it, more or less. But then the performance also decreases considerably, because remember, the TDP is only 65W (with a whopping 219W MTP, Maximum Turbo Power as per Intel spec)! This means, it will draw the MTP for half a minute, then it gets brutally limited to 65W power draw, which means it would have to drastically lower the clocks to stay within that limit, perhaps right down to the 2.10 GHz base clock (for the P-cores). You can imagine what kind of performance you get at 2.1 GHz vs. the 5.2 GHz maximum turbo clocks. So nobody in their right mind restricts it to 65W after half a minute, unless it runs in an office PC or cheap OEM system where they use cheap cooling and have to keep the temperatures and noise under control somehow. Otherwise you want to allow at least 150-200W or so indefinitely to have a proper performance from this CPU.

So the best thing to do is to set the power limits yourself, according to what your cooling can actually handle. I have described the entire procedure here (although in that thread, the user has a high-end AIO, so he can use high power limits). First you'd set power limits roughly according to what you think your cooling can get rid of, even with long periods of full load. I don't know how capable your Endorfy Navis F240 ARGB is, maybe it can get rid of 180W while still keeping the CPU temperature within the 80°C range. Then you'd set that as a power limit in the BIOS, and check the resulting temperatures with Cinebench, which creates fully multithreaded conventional load (the highest load that does not come from a stress testing tool like Prime95). If they're mid-80°C, perfect. Above 90°C, you have to reduce the limits, below 80°C you can raise them if you want, of course it also depends on the noise you want to tolerate, that has to do with the fan curves. I recommend the highest point of the curve (full fan speeds) at 85° or 90°C. I would try to stay away from the 90°C range, that slowly enters thermal throttling territory, it is not good to rely on that, and you want to have some headroom for higher ambient temperatures.

Then, to reduce the CPU's power draw in all load states, you can work with CPU Lite Load. Again, i explain that in the thread, also follow the links in there. No need to change the power limits from what you determined though, because those limits only have to do with your cooling capabilities, they don't change once you determined what your cooling can handle. But when you make the CPU draw a bit less power, it will throttle a bit less under full load, and it can boost the clocks a bit higher.

As for checking the sensors, it's important to see all the sensors at once, so do it according to the thread i linked ("here" in bold), with HWinfo64 Sensors open and expanded, and Cinebench. But i can already see that running without power limits is too much for your cooler, 240W CPU Package Power leads to thermal throttling. So you're gonna have to set power limits, i recommend testing with 180W.
Nothing more, nothing less. Very good explanation.
 
For boards supporting the current 12th/13th/14th gen CPUs, your board PRO B760-P WIFI DDR4 uses a more low-end VRM:

View attachment 181911

MSI always exaggerate and call it 12+2 (or 12+1+1) "Duet Rail", but it's really 6+2 phases, with doubled components to spread the thermal load.

This board's VRM is made up of cheap discrete MOSFETs, that's the sign that (for the requirements of i7/i9 CPUs) it's still considered a low-end solution. The MOSFETs are the little black chips that are in groups of four. But any board that was made with an i7/i9 in mind will use either DrMOS or Smart Powerstages (SPS), which have a higher efficiency than discrete MOSFETs, because compared to them, they bundle everything in a single component which results in far lower switching losses. The Smart Powerstages even have sensors that can optimize the switching further.

Now, that's difficult to understand for someone that hasn't heard about VRMs, but just know that it can overwhelm a cheaper VRM if you really use a high-end CPU to its maximum capability (and why wouldn't you, otherwise you'd get a cheap CPU model). Here i explain more how the board makers try to save money on the VRM components whenever possible.

Here and here i posted some explanations about similar things before, and here you can read what happens when buy a really low-end board: The money on an i7 is completely wasted there, because the board completely restricts the power draw, otherwise the VRM would get overwhelmed. So your board is not really low-end, let's called it upper-low-end if there is such a thing. At least it has doubled MOSFETs / chokes, at least it has VRM heatsinks. But for an i7/i9, i would still prefer a board with DrMOS or SPS.

Of course, for an i7/i9 you also have to take the cooling into account, especially the 14th gen can go to crazy power draw numbers, see here. So no matter the board, if you don't have high-end cooling, you can't run it unrestricted anyway.

As for the 13700 vs. 13700K, the 13700 doesn't allow overclocking, plus it has a much lower base clock (which is necessary, because that's the scenario for which the TDP is defined), and 200 MHz lower turbo clocks. But when you disregard the official power limits (like almost any board will offer), then it's just like a slightly slower 13700K and will have the power draw according to that.

Only when you strictly set the power limits to the official numbers (in other words, selecting "Boxed cooler" on the cooler selection prompt, which is really the power limits prompt), then you will have the power draw that Intel states for it, more or less. But then the performance also decreases considerably, because remember, the TDP is only 65W (with a whopping 219W MTP, Maximum Turbo Power as per Intel spec)! This means, it will draw the MTP for half a minute, then it gets brutally limited to 65W power draw, which means it would have to drastically lower the clocks to stay within that limit, perhaps right down to the 2.10 GHz base clock (for the P-cores). You can imagine what kind of performance you get at 2.1 GHz vs. the 5.2 GHz maximum turbo clocks. So nobody in their right mind restricts it to 65W after half a minute, unless it runs in an office PC or cheap OEM system where they use cheap cooling and have to keep the temperatures and noise under control somehow. Otherwise you want to allow at least 150-200W or so indefinitely to have a proper performance from this CPU.

So the best thing to do is to set the power limits yourself, according to what your cooling can actually handle. I have described the entire procedure here (although in that thread, the user has a high-end AIO, so he can use high power limits). First you'd set power limits roughly according to what you think your cooling can get rid of, even with long periods of full load. I don't know how capable your Endorfy Navis F240 ARGB is, maybe it can get rid of 180W while still keeping the CPU temperature within the 80°C range. Then you'd set that as a power limit in the BIOS, and check the resulting temperatures with Cinebench, which creates fully multithreaded conventional load (the highest load that does not come from a stress testing tool like Prime95). If they're mid-80°C, perfect. Above 90°C, you have to reduce the limits, below 80°C you can raise them if you want, of course it also depends on the noise you want to tolerate, that has to do with the fan curves. I recommend the highest point of the curve (full fan speeds) at 85° or 90°C. I would try to stay away from the 90°C range, that slowly enters thermal throttling territory, it is not good to rely on that, and you want to have some headroom for higher ambient temperatures.

Then, to reduce the CPU's power draw in all load states, you can work with CPU Lite Load. Again, i explain that in the thread, also follow the links in there. No need to change the power limits from what you determined though, because those limits only have to do with your cooling capabilities, they don't change once you determined what your cooling can handle. But when you make the CPU draw a bit less power, it will throttle a bit less under full load, and it can boost the clocks a bit higher.

As for checking the sensors, it's important to see all the sensors at once, so do it according to the thread i linked ("here" in bold), with HWinfo64 Sensors open and expanded, and Cinebench. But i can already see that running without power limits is too much for your cooler, 240W CPU Package Power leads to thermal throttling. So you're gonna have to set power limits, i recommend testing with 180W.
Thank you.
I tried this. My cinebench multi core score went from around 15,0000 - to around 27000.
Weirdly nothing changed in the 3D Mark CPU Score.
 
Very good explanation.
Thank you.

I tried this. My cinebench multi core score went from around 15,0000 - to around 27000.
Weirdly nothing changed in the 3D Mark CPU Score.

Cinebench Multi probably results in a much higher CPU load due to fully stressing all cores, leading to severe thermal throttling, while 3DMark CPU probably tries to simulate a typical CPU load during gaming, which doesn't utilize full multithreading for all cores, and thus doesn't cause nearly the power draw of CB Multi. This is just a theory, i haven't tested with 3DMark CPU myself yet. As to why the 3DMark CPU score is 20% higher on the Gigabyte board, if it's not because of thermal throttling, would have to be seen.

Anyway, tell me what you have done to the settings so far, and maybe show the HWinfo screenshot of the sensors after a Cinebench run. Then you could reset the sensors and repeat it for a 3DMark CPU run.
 
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