MEG 870E Godlike Terrible iGPU USB4 DP stabilility/ utility

[msi.dagger69129602a1]

Anyone have the answer to this issue?

Can't get more than two monitors to run on this £1200 board via the iGPU.

M.2_2 slot is populated and at auto in the bios and I expect it to run at Gen 5*2 leaving still 2 lanes available for the USB4. Plenty of bandwidth.

If I attach a Thunderbolt Dock and monitors after POST it cannot negotiate a link regardless of whether or not the other spare USB 4 is a direct connection to a monitor. My understanding is this is largely expected behaviour for a TB dock on an AM5 consumer board as the TB stack is not available via firmware until the OS loads. The lack of a 3rd direct attached monitor available at POST though to allow access to bios and to login to the OS is odd??

I have tried multiple permutations of docks/splitters that aren't thunderbolt. Same issue.

My 9950x3D iGPU can run a ton of 4k@60Hz theoretically, but something about the DP alt mode isn't working on this board. It's like no more than 2 "DP lanes"(terminology?) will be allocated to screens. The bandwidth of theoretical 80gbs total and being unable to use it for a dock/splitter/daisy chain multi monitor setup that does not require manual hot plugging seems outrageous for a Mobo at this price point.

The ability to manipulate this stuff in the bios is also virtually non existent too. I've tried IGD force with 4UMA etc and still nothing. I do have eGPUs available, but I don't want to waste VRAM on displays for an AI machine that will be right on the edge of model capacity.

I bought this board due to its size and the 80gbps of USB 4 bandwidth for multi monitor setup via the iGPU leaving my eGPUs for other work.... So far it is a monumental waste of money if I need to compromise on that and I'm very disappointed in aspects of basic stability given the price point.

It seems like the USB4 firmware for POST is terrible at negotiating what it needs to to even give me 1 usable monitor if something other than 2 directly plugged in 4k monitors are used. 1 monitor for each usb4 port. Anything other than that and you get issues.

Any solutions to this or common banana skins. This MUST be a known issue.

Kind Regards

 

[msi.dagger69129602a1]

The problem lies with the amount of PCIx lanes available coming from the CPU and the amount of ports and functionality customers (and/or manufacturers) demand. That's why you see different manufacturers make different choices on how to provide them. The option of sharing lanes is what nudged me towards MSI when I did my research.

As we say in my native language it is looking for a sheep with 5 paws in a situation like this where salacious demand is leading.


I see a discrepancy here between the two of you What speeds are you allowed to set?

In my BIOS (MPG X870E Edge TI WiFi) I have the option to chose which NVME mode to run (gen 1-4 and auto). May be the discrepancy is because we are both not using the iGPU where msidagger is? @msi.dagger69129602a1 What BIOS version do you have installed?



Talking about specs. Please create a signature with your system specs. That makes it easier to keep track in general and in this particular case. Your continuous argumentative, aggressive, belligerent and scathing comments are very off putting making people not want to plough through of all of that abuse in order to get details about your configuration as they try to wrap their heads around the situation.

Back to the beginning. You are trying to push a configuration where you want to run three monitors from the iGPU. As stated before the specifications on the website states two monitors are supported using USB4:


Looking at the specifications of my MP X870 Edge TI WiFi on the website states three monitors supported


The above is replicated in the screenshot with the block diagrams of our boards side by side:
View attachment 210788

Notice the Edge TI provides an HDMI port for graphics where the Godlike has an extra lane to be used with a GPU. It may be another indication that your postulation that it should be able to run 3 monitors from the iGPU is on shaky grounds.

You still owe me the answer to this question that you could have dropped with MSI asking them whether the iGPU of the Godlike is capable of driving three monitors. From what I see if may not be possible and you may be ending up plugging in a GPU to get a third monitor supported. You may be flogging a dead horse in your desire to run three monitors from USB4 using a switch.

Eric, I've done exactly that. Offloaded onto the eGPUs. It's not ideal because the models I run fill the VRAM to max capacity so and the hundreds of MB of VRAM for the compositor are a factor for speed. It's one of those cliff edge scenarios.

That's why I was flogging the dead horse as it were and why I elected to buy this board to maximise the use of the iGPU for display purposes.

You're right. I arrived angry for a fight with MSI reps, there were none, and I've been a douchebag due to crushing realisation a lot of this stuff was now stuck behind expensive water blocks, pipework and hours and hours of effort. No excuse. Apologies. Thanks for all your help. All the best. Read the penultimate message above for my level headed point of view.

Lesson learned about testing before committing to parts of builds.

 

[xrodne152202d4]

I agree with you, xrodne.

Optionality is preferable. It's why I bought the thing.

My issue is not that.

For example, happy with 2 *Gen5 lanes for NVME on M2_2 for my scratch drive because I won't be doing any sequential writes of size so I wouldn't butt up against the bandwidth anyway.. is all I need. Nobody needs 4*5 nvme unless you're doing a lot of large transfers... OS and other usage is more random IO and nvme controller dependant and your wasting a gen 5 drive for that.

But I don't expect the poor implementation of the AUTO lane sharing logic to disable my onboard NVME requiring a reboot if I hotplug a fast block device into the 40gbs port to use it... I also expect full control of that bifurcation in BIOS... Its not there... Agreed?

Also, I need (wanted) to be able to use the DPs to their full spec. I understood I would only get 64gbs theoretical max from the remaining two lanes... But I expect the DP1.4 / DSC / MST USB4 implementation to work as advertised with no glitches. I'm aware of the hardware specs I require end to end to achieve this and they are met, still doesn't work though without manually unplugging and re-plugging monitors before/after POST.

Like I said, dogshit implementation of an otherwise good idea. The good idea is why I bought the thing.

Never had issue with nvme being disabled when using USB4 ports so cant comment on this. As for using them as DP, there are issues also on Asus boards so hard to tell.
Yes I agree that there should be full control over lanes distribution, but so far auto was working for me allways doing 2x2 without nay issues.
Cant even test it myself as i dont even have usb to DP cable and my igpu is disabled to save more power for CPU.
Have only one 4k OLED monitor so my 7900 xtx is more than enough.
There was a lot of people having various issues with motherboard but for me its mostly just DD3 restarting once in while.
I would have actually bough ACE instead of godlike if it wasnt actually posponed for year. I didnt need or even want DD# but there were no other options for me Asrock being out because of burning a lot of 9800x3d cpus.
I was even actually pissed off because my godlike came with middle ssd heatsing unhooked resulting in some scratches, bent fins on vrm heatsink and damaged ssd cooling pads.

 

[ericj159802e9]

But I don't expect the poor implementation of the AUTO lane sharing logic to disable my onboard NVME requiring a reboot if I hotplug a fast block device into the 40gbs port to use it.

We have to consider the docking station playing a role here. Does this happen only with the docking station connected or also when the device gets directly connected to the PC?

Never had issue with nvme being disabled when using USB4 ports so cant comment on this. As for using them as DP, there are issues also on Asus boards so hard to tell.

The plot thickens.

 

[msi.dagger69129602a1]

We have to consider the docking station playing a role here. Does this happen only with the docking station connected or also when the device gets directly connected to the PC?

The plot thickens.

No. We don't. Because I've gone through all permutations.

The chipset of the docks and splitters are not the issue when it comes to multi-DP stream output. And these devices work absolutely fine with other and and intel motherboards. I have a DP1.4 MST capable dock with DSC hardware at either end.

It is an NVME enclosure, the block device, which knocks the onboard NVME offline if plugged into the spare display port if I'm running, for example, 1 monitor at the same time. So, the fact it is an NVME PERHAPS is relevant, but then I return to the fact that no other motherboard runs into these headaches when I use it in 40gbps slots. Which is the root of my disappointment.

This is all silly. The issue is with the decision making tree of the Auto mode which shares the lanes and the fact that the DP implementation by, what I assume is the USB4 controller is poor.

I've tried every permutation to rule out hardware and isolate it to the mother boards handling, which I've done.