MSI 970 Gaming - Several Problems - Resolution needed...

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
Hello MSI Support (and everyone else)...

Im a veteran PC Enthusiast and i have been testing some systems on some brand boards...
After testing some ASRock and even MSI boards, im back at a AMD system with an MSI board (normally not a good combination... but...).
Anyway...

This system was rock solid on an Gigabyte 990X-UD3. I have exchange the board, because i like the colors of this MSI board better and the Audio Gimmick interest me...
Resuming...

After installing all the components i fired up the system... this board came with 22.0 Bios... i have upgraded to the 22.2 that is the latest official bios available...
But i have some annoying and i think replicable problems...

1) After a restart the bios incorrectly say that the Overclocked failed and to go to the bios or load defaults... Even with the system without any overclock!
This is random, because sometimes it appears sometimes don?t...
Even with a rock solid stable OC the board sometimes stops on POST.

2) Very Poor Fan controller and Temperature monitoring... Why cant we sellect the power resolution on the several connectors? Like Voltage or PWM??
Im using a 3 pin pump there, i can?t select ANY voltage... even if i sellect 50% of power on the BIOS, its allways 100%... This is lazy job guys... On System Fan 1 and 2, Voltage is used, so i can adjust the speeds down to 50% but not any lower... why?... Who knows... FINTEK crap...

3) After installing Widows 8.1, Omega NB/SB Drivers, and AMD GPU Drivers, im feeling a stuttery experience on Windows... Like something the constantly loading the cpu on and off..
Very Strange and i dind?t have any of this issues with the exact same setup with the 990X board.

4) If i installl the VIA USB 3.0 Driver that is on the MSI Support Page for this board, after the reboot all the USB ports (2.0 and 3.0), simply vanish... powering down...
This is a very grave issue that i didin?t expect to be seeing on a recent board...
Its this a Software Problem? IRQ problem? Hardware Problem or BIOS Problem? If i remove the driver and just let the legacy Windows driver work, the problem doesn?t seem to appear...

5) Insuficient Cooling on this board... and low quality Nikos VRM?s...
This board is using not so good rated NIKOS VRM to feed power to the CPU.. They are a LOT of them, so the cooling must be oversize (and it is), nothing wrong with that, but even with this big heatsink, the thing looks like a brick from hell even at medium settings (4.0 ghz for example).
To add to the madness, the NB heat sink is incredible small and also burns in normal operation... I wounder...
Why not add some active low speed fans on both sides? NB and VRM Cooling?

Im doing just that to keep this at cold temperatures...
I know that this is a low end board, but really MSI cutting on that corners is sloppy and dangerous...

My Current Setup:

FX 8320
Triton Custom WC Cooling
4x2GB Gskill / Kingston 1600mhz Cas 9
PowerColor AMD HD 7950
Windows 8.1 Fully Updated
Samsung SSD 840 EVO - 512GB
Samsung SSD 840 EVO - 1TB
CoolerMaster Silence PRO M2 1000W

I will be waiting for replys on this matters...

Best Regards,

LPC

PS: Just happend again with the USB 2.0 of the front header shutting down and saying that and usb device is not recognised... Im not using the VIA USB 3.0 Driver...

 

TZBC

New member
CAPTAIN
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
631
For CPUFAN header, you have to use 4-pin fan to control the speed.


and you mix up RAMs, try with only Gskill or Kingston memory.
 

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
TZBC said:
For CPUFAN header, you have to use 4-pin fan to control the speed.


and you mix up RAMs, try with only Gskill or Kingston memory.
Hello Thanks for your reply...

But if i don?t have a 4 pin fan, ou a 4 pin pump? Why cannot control the fan or pump by the voltage modulation? I can do that on the other 2 connectors SysFan 1 and 2...
It makes no sense for me whatsoever...

That should have been an option for the user like and many other boards..

As for the Memories i have tested them with and without the mix match configuration...
Also both kits are manually configured for the lowest common denominator that is 1.65v and 9-9-9-27.
They are pretty much rock solid stable...

With my best regards,

LPC














 

TZBC

New member
CAPTAIN
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
631
But if i don?t have a 4 pin fan, ou a 4 pin pump? Why cannot control the fan or pump by the voltage modulation? I can do that on the other 2 connectors SysFan 1 and 2...
It makes no sense for me whatsoever...
the 4th pin for the CPUFAN is designed for speed control, so you can't control 3-pin fan on this connector.
you can try plug your 3-pin fan on SYSFAN1 connector, it should work to control the 3-pin fan, but system will recognized it as a system fan.

what are the exact model of your kingston and G.Skill RAMs?
set your RAM to default settings
maybe they have compatibility problem with your motherboard  :think:

Have you already cleared CMOS after you flash bios and tried with one stick of RAM?

Are you able to try with other HDD?
 

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
TZBC said:
the 4th pin for the CPUFAN is designed for speed control, so you can't control 3-pin fan on this connector.
you can try plug your 3-pin fan on SYSFAN1 connector, it should work to control the 3-pin fan, but system will recognized it as a system fan.

what are the exact model of your kingston and G.Skill RAMs?
set your RAM to default settings
maybe they have compatibility problem with your motherboard  :think:

Have you already cleared CMOS after you flash bios and tried with one stick of RAM?

Are you able to try with other HDD?
Ok i understand that, what i don?t understand is why this was made like this... Most of the good fans are 3 pins! So why just 4 pin control?
Make no sense whatsoever...

My Rams are:

Kingston: 1600mhz 9-9-9-27 1.65v
GSkill: 1600mhz 9-9-9-24 1.50v

But for parity issues both are operating at 1.65v. The timmings are also relaxed to match kingston specs.

The problems i reported can be replicated, so its not a problem with the memory, i haved tested with and without the both brands...

Best Regards,

LPC



 

TZBC

New member
CAPTAIN
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
631
Ok i understand that, what i don?t understand is why this was made like this... Most of the good fans are 3 pins! So why just 4 pin control?
most CPU fans are 4-pin, maybe they need stable 12V providing so add another pin for speed control in case CPU will overheated...

Have you already cleared CMOS after you flash bios and tried with one stick of RAM?

Are you able to try with other HDD?
I remember that Samsung SSD 840 EVO have same issues before....not sure if related...

And for the driver and USB problem, I suggest you reinstall your OS....
 

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
TZBC said:
most CPU fans are 4-pin, maybe they need stable 12V providing so add another pin for speed control in case CPU will overheated...

Have you already cleared CMOS after you flash bios and tried with one stick of RAM?

Are you able to try with other HDD?
I remember that Samsung SSD 840 EVO have same issues before....not sure if related...

And for the driver and USB problem, I suggest you reinstall your OS....
True, but most of the pumps are not... And with a lot of AIO coolers on the market, is lack of efford of MSI part not covering all the bases.
Yes, i cleared cmos several times and even tried with just one dimm, the effect is the same...

I only have Samsung SSD?s here, but on my other board nothing of this problems occur exact SAME build, except for the board...

As for the USB problem, i have allready installed a FRESH OS, problem still happens...
Solution? NOT INSTALLING the VIA Driver...

If i don?t install it, the usb ports all work without problem, but as soon the driver is installed havoc started to happen on the system...
ALL the USB ports power down, and i only can restart or shutdown my pc pressing the reset or power button...

From what im seeing, this is a design flawed product... Lots of problems could be fixed by firmware and software updates, but others cannot...
I really would like to have some MSI representative talking to me, and address this issues...

I do like the Gaming design of the boards, but the support is clearly lackluster...

Best Regards,

LPC
 

TZBC

New member
CAPTAIN
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
631
As for the USB problem, i have allready installed a FRESH OS, problem still happens...
Solution? NOT INSTALLING the VIA Driver...

If i don?t install it, the usb ports all work without problem, but as soon the driver is installed havoc started to happen on the system...
ALL the USB ports power down, and i only can restart or shutdown my pc pressing the reset or power button...
what's your USB devices?

You can contact msi support, i think they will help you fix your problem :)

How to contact MSI
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=107326.msg793859#msg793859
 

philrazo

New member
CORPORAL
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
14
I'm having the same issues i've contacted MSI but theyre support team is not very informative and the answers are so vague
 

philrazo

New member
CORPORAL
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
14
The USB 3.0 is very unstable, sometimes it works, sometimes its not there. the 3 pin fan headers running @ 100% rpm and not reporting the RPM speed. very similar to the OP.
 

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
TZBC said:
what's your USB devices?

You can contact msi support, i think they will help you fix your problem :)

How to contact MSI
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=107326.msg793859#msg793859
Well i have the normal usb connections everyone have...

- Keyboard
- Mouse
- WIFI Pen (good quality from ASUS btw)
- On the USB 3.0 i have an USB 3.0 VIA Hub

The USB 3.0 drivers are the ones that make ALL the USB ports (2.0 and 3.0), to fail and power down...
If i don?t install the VIA driver everything works...

This is easy replicable if MSI care to take the time to care about their costumers...

Hummm... Contact MSI...
Isn?t this a MSI Forum? Why MSI staff don?t see my problem and contact me instead? I have an open profile or can even reply on this topic...

Best Regards,

LPC








 

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
philrazo said:
The USB 3.0 is very unstable, sometimes it works, sometimes its not there. the 3 pin fan headers running @ 100% rpm and not reporting the RPM speed. very similar to the OP.
I can confirm both situations... And its similar because is the same problem...

This is easy detectable and replicable by MSI... Is a mistery to me why so obvious problems are not yet adressed?
MSI Boards Look great, but where is the support?  Also que component quality have been sufering from earlier years...

Best Regards,

LPC

 

Nichrome

Active member
Global Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
18,896
So...


Most of the support on this forum are us: users like you. I spare my own time to possibly help you fix your issue (my hobby while I am bored)

Second thing: @philrazo , please open your own topic instead of hijacking someone else's: >>Please read and comply with the Forum Rules.<<

Mixing RAM is always a risk and asking for trouble. I recommend to not continue such practise.
Also MSI 970 Gaming is not as high end as MSI 990FXA series is, so cooling is a little bit lower end (at least to my understanding of the specification)

For USB you might have to try different driver versions, maybe even BIOS flashing might help.
With AMD driver: make sure your graphics card has latest vBIOS. Also check task manager what is going on. What you describe (lagging/stuttering) might be caused by USB device (such as WiFi pen); why I say this? I have cheap PCIe WiFi card in my PC, and whenever connection signal is below "good", my PC stutters even when playing music using music player (not YouTube), and whenever I disconnect from internet, stuttering goes away; so check USB.
 

philrazo

New member
CORPORAL
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
14
Hijacking is a pretty strong word brother, i was merely confirming that i also have the same issue meaning that maybe this is a general issue that should be addressed.
 

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
Nichrome said:
So...

Most of the support on this forum are us: users like you. I spare my own time to possibly help you fix your issue (my hobby while I am bored)

Second thing: @philrazo , please open your own topic instead of hijacking someone else's: >>Please read and comply with the Forum Rules.<<

Mixing RAM is always a risk and asking for trouble. I recommend to not continue such practise.
Also MSI 970 Gaming is not as high end as MSI 990FXA series is, so cooling is a little bit lower end (at least to my understanding of the specification)

For USB you might have to try different driver versions, maybe even BIOS flashing might help.
With AMD driver: make sure your graphics card has latest vBIOS. Also check task manager what is going on. What you describe (lagging/stuttering) might be caused by USB device (such as WiFi pen); why I say this? I have cheap PCIe WiFi card in my PC, and whenever connection signal is below "good", my PC stutters even when playing music using music player (not YouTube), and whenever I disconnect from internet, stuttering goes away; so check USB.
Hummm i see... only "crucial problems..." Guess im not a MSI costumer with crucial problems...
Problems like notebooks?  Guess the price point is important to the support queue around here im afraid...

Guess what i have purchaded MSI Boards that in total is worth more then a MSI Laptop... So sorry NIchrome you are not correct on this matter.
Im also a MSI costumer and if i wasted my time warning about this problems, they should at least get seen by some of MSI Support Staff.
I could also have done the easier thing, send back the product and purchase another from another brand... Guess this is what MSI deservers from your point of view...

You are explaining me that this forum is MSI just by name... 90% of the work here is made and helped by users, not by MSI employees...
So whats the point of having an oficial forum?  This looks like the ghost forum of ASUS, one of the worse foruns i have ever come across...

I know that Mixing memorys is not the best course of action, but then again im no novice on this space... I have been building and reviewing produtcts for more then a decade...
I clearly know how to configure the timmings to overcome the diferences on the chips and brands (and thats why in not saying that the problems are coming from the memorys).


The problem with 970 Gamming and other MSI AMD boards are called "cutting on corners" on the quality dept. They sure look amaizing and their layout is very clean and well thought.
But the components... helll this is not military grade...

Who is making the chokes? and the capacitors? Painted black... But what i hate the most are the crappy Nikos vrms... Even if they have made 3 or 4 per fase to dissipate the heat better, they are still very low grande...
Where are the DRmos from the GD65 or GD80?

Cooling can be inferior to an 990fx, but it must be at least adequade... Thank god the VRM cooler is big and fan friendly!
The NB Heatsink is a joke and i recomend putting a 40mm fan on top of it to control the imense heat that comes from it...

For the USB problem, i would like to test other VIA driver, but where are they? Im using the latest on that is on the MSI Board Site.
The Bios is also the last version available: 22.2... Even this version they recognize the USB problem, but its only fixed on Windows XP...
What about Win 7, Win 8 and Win 8.1?

For AMD NB/SB Driver, im using the latest OMEGA Driver from AMD itself. For the AMD GPU im also using the OMEGA driver.

As for the stuttering, i think its related with the Killer NIC Control Panel... Its crappy and a resource HOG..
I have an Asus Dual Channel Wifi Dongle for USB. But that i have it for 4 years by now and allways worked well on various systems (X99, 990FX, Z77, Z97... yep i exchange a lot).

Im sorry about my more harsh text, is not nothing personal to you, but is more a wakeup call for MSI, to be more active on resolving their costumers problems...
This board have some issues, that should and must be fixed because is hard to recomend a product that is flawed when there are now other competing products on this price frame...

Best Regards,

LPC








 

Nichrome

Active member
Global Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
18,896
For official technical support (yes you will speak to MSI employee then) you have been redirected to this link: >>How to contact MSI.<<

That's all I can tell.. I do understand you have issues, but if you would>>Read the Forum Rules.<< you would notice this part:

There is a small number of MSI support staff who do post here, but you are not in direct contact with MSI Support here. If you need to communicate directly with MSI, you should look here: >>How to contact MSI.<<
And we (moderating team) and other users:
This forum is a support community for users of MSI products, managed and maintained by users on behalf of MSI. Anyone can ask for help or offer help to others.
 

darkhawk

Well-known member
Global Moderator
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
12,892
Having done electrical design work for the military....I can tell you one thing.
If you think it would cost $200 or even $400 for a motherboard with components that were military grade, you're pretty mistaken.

As with most things, people assume it wouldn't cost much more. That's why when you look at computers that are actually military grade, they have half the specs of the same priced PC. Reason? It really does cost quite a bit more for those quality components.

As far as the issues you're having....I recently dealt with a similar problem on a product with the company I work for.

Fan manufacturers are moving to digital modulation within the fans themselves. Digitally modulating the voltage to the fan will no longer work like it used to with the older analog fans, or at least not to the same extent. The digitally modulated fans actually have better performance and draw less power for the same air flow. But in order to actually control those fans, you need a constant voltage applied to the fan. This means that you need to regulate the voltage to the fan instead of modulating the voltage. On top of that, I'm sure it costs a bit more money, since that means each individual fan needs it's own voltage regulator. That is added cost and complexity to the board.

I don't see this as a design fault. You can easily use 2 silent fans on the uncontrolled connectors so you have a constant air flow that doesn't create much noise, and then use fans that can be controlled and will push  more air on the ones that are controlled.

Either way, I'm not sure why that's a huge problem.

The other issues point to general instability with the computer.
If it seems stuttery, figure out what is causing that. What problem is loading/running and causing that? Have you looked in Task Manager to see if something could be using up your CPU cycles? Or maybe using the hard drive a bunch and causing it to stutter?
As far as the overclock, I can't talk much about it. I don't bother doing that anymore, the benefit is pretty meager for most hardware anymore in general (IMHO). Svet might be the better person to talk to in regards to that problem.
 

philrazo

New member
CORPORAL
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
14
I think the issue lies with the compatibility w/ samsung evo software or the drive itself. I just realied we both have it. I changed the OS optimization settings to max capacity and removed rapid mode as its redundant w/ windows 8.1 for real time use. so far the USB issues and sleep mode have gone away. I will let you know if anything changes.
 

paulus.cobris

New member
SERGEANT
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
26
Hello...

Well i got tired of trying to figure out what going on on this Board...
Im returning the whole system back to the store...

I will be recieving a new AMD system and a new MSI board.

Im going to test the MSI A88X-G45 Gaming and a AMD Athlon 860k CPU.
From what i allready know about this board, it looks that is a much better build board then 970 Gaming is...
Even the VRM are better...

I sure hope the damm VIA USB 3.0 IC don?t give the same problems that the current one does on 970 Gaming.
I was on the fence on that MSI Board, Asus Board and ASRock Board...

Lets see what i get...

Best Regards,

LPC









 
Top