MSI B450 Tomahawk - is AMD Cool&Quiet broken when OCing ?

bojanh6159902ea

New member
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Messages
2
I have overclocked Ryzen 5 2600 to 4ghz, but now my clock speed and voltage are not dropping at idle.
I have activated PSS Support and C-State in bios, but it doesnt work.
Bios version is the latest.
Is AMD Cool&Quiet option broken when overclocking ?
Is there any other way to lower my clock speed and voltage at idle ?
 
Yes, any OC cancels out the fully intelligent power management and the granular turbo modes. I'd just remove the OC, because with the Ryzen 2000 series, the CPU overclocking already became kind of pointless. The thing is, AMD has optimized the turbo methods considerably for those models. Namely, Precision Boost 2 and XFR 2.

12-1080.2234219132.png


The different boost modes work so well already, that any OC does very little for performance (low single-digit improvements, if any), but drives up the power consumption, lowering calculation efficiency considerably.

The boost works especially well in games, which often don't fully utilize all cores.

The German website Computerbase.de did a test back then with a 2700X, they could eke out only 2% better frametimes with OC, compared to the intelligent turbo modes. So they had to give a lot higher VCore for a miniscule performance gain.

Screenshot_2021-03-14 AMD Ryzen 7 2700X, 2700, 5 2600X 2600 im Test (Seite 7).png


Their conclusion was: If you want a higher gaming performance with a Ryzen 2000-CPU, you should rather invest more time into tuning the RAM frequency and timings. Therein lies considerably more potential than in CPU OC.

And that's what i would tell you as well.
 
Yar it be pointless to OC unless you want to get a advantage in all Core applications and they be few and far between and the gain is not really all that much over all. From Auto OC setting in the Bios. AMD did a somewhat good job of getting the CPU to max performance out of the box.
 
I have Noctua D15 and ive bought this motherboard because its good for overclocking, so no point to keep Ryzen at stock settings.
I am dissapointed that this motherboard doesnt support AMD Cool&Quiet while overclocking.
Is this a MSI thing or AMD thing...is there any motherboard that supports AMD C&C while manual overclocking (all i want is to have low clock and voltage while i am doing nothing, i think thats not too much to ask)?

I am coming from Intel i7 4790k and Asus Z97-A which is 7 years old and it supports both manual overclocking and power saving features...while i am on idle, it lowers my clock to ~ 800MHz and voltage to below 1v....so i am suprised that newer motherboards dont support this.
 
You have missed some important developments in the meantime. CPU overclocking is all but dead nowadays.

For Intel, it started with the transition from Coffee Lake (Core i-8000) to Coffee Lake Refresh (Core i-9000). There, they pushed the CPUs quite near to their maximum by default. While the 8700K for example was one of the best CPUs to overclock in years, the 9900K was almost not overclockable. The different turbo modes had the CPU running at the limit of the voltage/frequency curve already. With any overclock, you would therefore get a massive rise in power consumption almost immediately, for very little performance gains.

With the Core i-10000 series (Comet Lake), it became more extreme. The 10900K is so close to the limit that any OC equates to squeezing water from a stone. Depending on the cooling, often times performance even decreases with OC, because the three (!) different intelligent turbo modes can't work properly or at all anymore.

Since that time, overclocking with Intel consists of removing the PL1/PL2 long/short power limits in the BIOS, and hoping that your mainboard's VRM section and your CPU cooling can cope with it. Strictly speaking, that's not even overclocking, but it's the best way to get "free" performance from the CPU. Generally, it's much more fruitful to OC your RAM instead.

With the upcoming Core i-11000 series (Rocket Lake), it will get more extreme again. Like stated in the Anandtech preview, we're close to the limit of conventional cooling methods, regarding hot spots on the CPU die. The Z590 boards had to upgrade their VRM sections again, and therefore become more expensive again, if the top CPU models should work flawlessly. Because good powerstages can easily cost 10x of what seperate Lo- and Hi-MOSFETs cost, and you have 16 and more of them on the higher-up board models. Therefore they're spending way over US $100 on the VRM section alone, so the platform cost is constantly rising since at least two generations.


With AMD, it's much the same story, since Ryzen 1000, but even more so since the Ryzen 2000 series came out in 2018. The Precision Boost 2 takes those CPUs right to their limit already. That's why Intel had to "counter" with the Core i-9000 series also not leaving much in the tank regarding OC headroom.

Many CPUs from the last two years are predominantly most efficient at stock settings, and dramatically lose efficiency once you above that. Even PBO (Precision Boost Overdrive, a sort of "official" overclocking that AMD offers), already causes that. With PBO, the clocks will be up to 200 MHz higher, which translates into maybe 3% performance improvement; however, power consumption and thus heat production already increase considerably. Thus, even PBO is not advised, let alone overclocking.

Here, you can see how a lower PPT limit (Package Power Tracking, forcing the CPU into another mapping of VCore vs. Frequency) can improve the efficiency per task, which is quite telling:

Bild in Originalgröße - 2019/07/D_mJ2PAU4AEJ4Ii-pcgh.png


The lower PPT limit will quickly improve efficiency (power draw is decreasing much more than performance is), since AMD went so close to the limit already with the latest CPUs (just like Intel). Undervolting with an offset isn't nearly as effective. On the other hand, overclocking manually is a bad idea too. It cancels out the fully intelligent power management and the finely-tuned turbo modes. The CPU at stock, without PBO and manual OC, is already slightly above the most efficient range. PBO will push it over it, and manual OC will make the CPU massively inefficient and a [***CENSORED***] to keep cool. Going above the stock settings with any current CPU, especially the higher models, is like having water boiling nicely in a pot, but still turning up the stove because you want the water to "boil more".

That's why you should concentrate on RAM OC, much more benefits to be had, without any of the penalties in efficiency.
 
I have Noctua D15 and ive bought this motherboard because its good for overclocking, so no point to keep Ryzen at stock settings.
Just for the record as the others were trying to explain, unless you're doing everything but gaming, then yes, overclocking would be great for any kind of multi-core production work. But for gaming, there's zero reason or need to overclock. And you're actually hurting your performance by overclocking.

I am dissapointed that this motherboard doesnt support AMD Cool&Quiet while overclocking.
There's no need for CnQ while overclocking. That's why it's disabled.

(all i want is to have low clock and voltage while i am doing nothing, i think thats not too much to ask)?
That's what Windows' power plans are for. Set it to "Balanced" and then in Advanced options, set it how low you want your CPU to be when not being used. You can also head over to the AMD forums of www.overclock.net where they have a thread about creating your own power profiles if you so choose.
 
Back
Top