MSI B450M PRO-VDH MAX + Ryzen 5 3400G slow splash time and video issues

ciproba14db02cd

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hi guys,

please visit this post written this very morning on LTT.. don't make me write down everything from scratch once again: I am already wasting so much time on this product.. :(

hope you can give me some more info
thanks
 

citay

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I see a more glaring issue: Your RAM is still running at DDR4-2133! You need to set it to DDR4-3200 XMP speed, either by loading the A-XMP profile or by setting things manually.
Your RAM is way slower than necessary now, hampering the CPU performance too.

Also, i never heard of Splash time, a better term would be POST time (Power-on Self Test).

Your POST time is actually fine, if i look at the video. You're not even seeing the POST screen. What you are stuck on for a couple seconds is the Windows log-on/welcome screen. But it's really nothing too bad. First set your RAM correctly, maybe that will already give a slight improvement there.
 

ciproba14db02cd

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thanks very much for your answer,

there's a couple of things that actually I don't love with this setup of mine. The Post time as you said is the minor one.

My real concern is the "video input issue": if you look at the video ( ) youl'll notice a short moment at the boot where the display seems to turn off. It actually turns off for a second and an alert reads: "no input found"..

now that's bothering me even more than the slow post time. I have done anything:

-updated chipset drivers to the latest version from amd website;
-updated bios;
-updated radeon graphics drivers.

the problem is still there.


Now let me record a new video clip of a new boot so I can show my issue more clearly.


Secondly, I would like to ask your advice about my bios settings: here are some screens from my updated bios settings, according to what some fellow forumers from my base site suggested: do you agree with that?



I can't actually pinpoint the cause but now that I made all these changes I noticed that the blank monitor issue looks even worse than before..

setting xmp on ram and giving feedback here now, thanks very much
 
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citay

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Drivers will not help you with the video input issue, this is something that happens before Windows and its drivers are loaded.

Check in the BIOS under Settings - Advanced - Integrated Graphics. Initiate Graphics Adapter should be on "IGP", not "PEG".

It can be that VGA output is slower than the others and/or doesn't want to show the BIOS/POST part. I remember certain mainboards that would even only show the BIOS over one of DVI/HDMI/VGA and not over the others. So if you were to use the HDMI out, you would perhaps see the POST screen or at least get an image sooner than now.
 

citay

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Oh ok, sorry, missed that. Then i think it has to do with the output you chose. It's not a fault or anything worth worrying about, it's just a slightly annoying quirk, which you probably can't fix, other than using a different graphics output.
 

ciproba14db02cd

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perfect, thanks very much

I'll tell you what: I'll try and connect my hdmi tv screen from the kitchen :)

in a couple of hours' time we should have the result
 

citay

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Ok. Going over your BIOS screenshots now. In Pic 4: Set "ErP Ready" and "System power fault protection" to enabled. The former will save power while off, the latter will prevent the system from turning on with an unsafe voltage.

The more important settings are actually under "OC", this section is somewhat mislabeled, as it controls a lot of things, even if you don't OC. Set that from Normal to Expert mode (if available) and take some screenshots, if you want.
 

ciproba14db02cd

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ok thanks, I would begin with erp ready and system power BUT, at the same time I have actually restored the bios settings to its default values because, in my mind, I had made so many changes and some of them actually randomly that I didn't want to lose control over my process.

I am not an expert so, as a line of action, I think it's better to make just a few changes that you are confident with and that most importantly you can control rather changing a lot and losing control over your process of work.

With this said, I'll take the screens now with everything set to its default values and if you want you can give me precise directions as to what values to turn on or disable exactly.

I guess starting new should make it easier, thanks
 

citay

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If you can make screenshots of everything again, including the OC section, i'll gladly help you. Since i don't know for sure what the default settings are, if they are different from the ones you already had screenshots of.
 

ciproba14db02cd

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thanks very much.

I'll try my best to deliver the screens in the clearest possible way.

let's see..




  1. settings
    1. settings --> advanced
      1. settings --> advanced --> integrated graphics
      2. settings --> advanced --> integrated peripherals
      3. settings --> advanced --> power management setup
      4. settings --> advanced --> super IO Serial
      5. settings --> advanced --> wake up event
      6. settings --> advanced --> windows OSC configuration
    2. settings --> boot
      1. settings --> boot --> UEFI hard disk drive bbs priorities
  2. overclocking
    1. overclocking --> cpu features
    2. overclocking --> cpu specs
    3. overclocking --> memory spec




  1. settings
    1. settings --> advanced
      1. settings --> advanced --> integrated graphics
      2. settings --> advanced --> integrated peripherals
      3. settings --> advanced --> power management setup
      4. settings --> advanced --> super IO Serial
      5. settings --> advanced --> wake up event
      6. settings --> advanced --> windows OSC configuration
    2. settings --> boot -
      1. settings --> boot --> UEFI hard disk drive bbs priorities
  2. overclocking -
    1. overclocking --> cpu features
    2. overclocking --> cpu specs
    3. overclocking --> memory spec
 

citay

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Ok, here goes.

In settings --> advanced --> integrated graphics, set from PEG to IGD again.
In settings --> advanced --> power management setup, set ErP Ready and Protection to enabled.
In settings --> advanced --> super IO Serial, set Serial port to disabled.
In settings --> advanced --> windows OS configuration, set BIOS mode from CSM to UEFI.
In settings --> boot, Boot mode select should then go to UEFI automatically, if not, set that. Disable Full Screen Logo.
In overclocking, set Explore Mode to Expert. Set DRAM Frequency to 3200 MHz (this can be better than enabling A-XMP, which will do the same, but may raise some voltages excessively).
In overclocking --> cpu features, set Cool'n'Quiet to Enabled, and tell me what options there are under Global C-State Control.

By this time, save & reboot once, but enter BIOS again right away. Now open Advanced DRAM config and make a screenshot please.
Plus you can make a screenshot of the voltages again now. Just making sure everything is good for DDR4-3200.

Also, you can make a screenshot of the fan control section (it's on the right, under Hardware Monitor).

When you set BIOS mode to UEFI, it will look like this again: https://ibb.co/DQ8HCp8
You can then go here and enable Secure Boot: https://ibb.co/PcsQQcJ
Save & Reboot again, enter BIOS and check that it's enabled. If not, you might have to enroll factory default keys and reboot again.

I can't reply for 2-3 hours now, so if you want to do something in Windows etc., maybe leave the part out where you set the RAM to 3200, until i can verify everything is alright for that.
 

ciproba14db02cd

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thanks very much for your reply and sorry for being a little late


In settings --> advanced --> integrated graphics, set from PEG to IGD again.
In settings --> advanced --> power management setup, set ErP Ready and Protection to enabled.
In settings --> advanced --> super IO Serial, set Serial port to disabled.
In settings --> advanced --> windows OS configuration, set BIOS mode from CSM to UEFI.
In settings --> boot, Boot mode select should then go to UEFI automatically, if not, set that. Disable Full Screen Logo.
In overclocking, set Explore Mode to Expert. Set DRAM Frequency to 3200 MHz (this can be better than enabling A-XMP, which will do the same, but may raise some voltages excessively).
In overclocking --> cpu features, set Cool'n'Quiet to Enabled, and tell me what options there are under Global C-State Control.
Cool'n'quite is AMD's cool'n'quite, right?

By this time, save & reboot once, but enter BIOS again right away. Now open Advanced DRAM config and make a screenshot please.
Plus you can make a screenshot of the voltages again now. Just making sure everything is good for DDR4-3200.
Also, you can make a screenshot of the fan control section (it's on the right, under Hardware Monitor).
When you set BIOS mode to UEFI, it will look like this again: https://ibb.co/DQ8HCp8
Yes, it does.

You can then go here and enable Secure Boot: https://ibb.co/PcsQQcJ
Save & Reboot again, enter BIOS and check that it's enabled. If not, you might have to enroll factory default keys and reboot again.
With Secure Boot I actually had some trouble: when I try to switch from "disabled" to "enabled" I get this message


but then I am not sure what happens to the MotherBoard if I proceed and "Install Factory Defaults" .. what does it happen? What does this operation mean and is this the right procedure?

I made a google search but so many results didn't solve the doubt..

I can't reply for 2-3 hours now, so if you want to do something in Windows etc., maybe leave the part out where you set the RAM to 3200, until i can verify everything is alright for that.
No, thank you and sorry for the late reply but we also have different time zones I guess.

Except for the Factory Default Keys point, everything should be ok, does it?
 

citay

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Good. For Secure Boot to work, you have to Enroll factory default keys, the message is normal, if a little misleading. One could think that some BIOS options are reset to defaults, but it's just installing factory default keys for Secure Boot to work, don't worry. After reboot and entering BIOS, you can then enable Secure boot.

The voltages look ok. Now open Advanced DRAM config and make a screenshot please.

As for the first Fan control screenshot, the curve isn't the best. First of all, the CPU will never go to 10°C/50°F, even in the BIOS it's already at 36°C/96°F. So let's start the curve at 30°C. Most likely you can go way lower with the voltage for that point, seeing how the CPU fan is already at a quite fast 2000 RPM. I would try something under 5V for the first point.

Then the next point at 50°C, with a slight increase in voltage to maybe 5.5-6V. The next point at 75°C with a larger increase to maybe 9-10V. And then the last point at 90°C where we go the full 12V.

Change the step down time to 1.0 seconds. Is the CPU fan your only one? No case fan? Just relying on your PSU fan to get hot air out of the case? That's a bit scarce. I would at least add a rear fan behind the CPU to create some airflow inside the case. Or if the PSU fan is strong, a front fan to pull in some air there.
 

ciproba14db02cd

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ok, thanks once again for your reply. I guess I am learning new things and it seems like you know what you are doing, which is not so common even in boards after all.

I have accomplished the steps you suggested but I have some questions about voltages and cpu -which I have not set- since it's the first time for me dealing with the subject.

Good. For Secure Boot to work, you have to Enroll factory default keys, the message is normal, if a little misleading. One could think that some BIOS options are reset to defaults, but it's just installing factory default keys for Secure Boot to work, don't worry. After reboot and entering BIOS, you can then enable Secure boot.
In order to be able to enroll the factory default keys (ie: unlocking the specific item in the list) I had to switch the Secure Boot mode from Standard --> to Custom: is this ok? (I guess it is) Otherwise it wouldn't let me access the items "Enroll factory default keys" and the following ones:


The voltages look ok. Now open Advanced DRAM config and make a screenshot please.
It took 4 screencaps to cover the whole list, I hope it's clear and that I got the right item:


As for the first Fan control screenshot, the curve isn't the best. First of all, the CPU will never go to 10°C/50°F, even in the BIOS it's already at 36°C/96°F. So let's start the curve at 30°C. Most likely you can go way lower with the voltage for that point, seeing how the CPU fan is already at a quite fast 2000 RPM. I would try something under 5V for the first point.

Then the next point at 50°C, with a slight increase in voltage to maybe 5.5-6V. The next point at 75°C with a larger increase to maybe 9-10V. And then the last point at 90°C where we go the full 12V.
As to the fan control, I actually didn't do any changes, and that's because it's absolutely the very first time for me facing this subject. What concerns me is not setting a different temperature level, which I agree with, rather the idea of manually overriding the voltages .. :(.
I am simply afraid I could touch something that messes up the very "basics" of the pc and if something goes wrong I feel I don't have the knowledge to revert or repair anything. I am sure you understand my concerns (besides: is these kind of operations still under warranty cover?)
So, my suggestion would be: could you give me some link to an article or may be some good YT video in order to understand better what this is all about and take more confidence?
Second question: why is this needed in the first place? What does changing voltages mean, why is it necessary and what does it imply if you want to explain.
When I found myself before the panel, following your indication, I thought : would it be possible to just tweak the temperature values instead of both the temperatures and the voltages? Would it even make sense?


Change the step down time to 1.0 seconds. Is the CPU fan your only one? No case fan? Just relying on your PSU fan to get hot air out of the case? That's a bit scarce. I would at least add a rear fan behind the CPU to create some airflow inside the case. Or if the PSU fan is strong, a front fan to pull in some air there.
I am relieved if we can talk a bit about airflow because that was always a big question for me.
Now, I have a very old mid-tower full-atx pc case which dates back at least to 2006-2007. I am going to provide some additional pictures now but you may have already noticed something from the small clip I posted.
Being so aged and all, the psu compartment is still in the top section of the case, not the bottom like they mostly are nowadays.
In addition to that, the psu I have bought is a Corsair Rm550x, which I basically love because it has virtually no fan spin and no noise (except from some coil whine in some unlucky units, but that is I guess another matter) but, at the same time, to address your question, it actually doesn't produce any air blowing out of the case ..
So, correct me if I am wrong, the psu actually may receive hot air from the Cpu heatsink but doesn't expel any by itself: I don't think this is very healthy for the unit, is it? ...

Now, to make things worse, there is a very specific reason why I "like" this case and wouldn't want to change it, and that is: it look old (it is, actually I know :)) and cheap.. This means to me that in case robbers brake into the office and steal may be the laptop or whatever, they could skip the pc just because it looks old and worthless .. some sort of sleeper you know :)

I know this may sound unusual but this gives me peace of mind, especially considering that this is the first pc that I buy in years (last one being from 2007 as I said) and that I've been planning this purchase for a long time .. :)

Now, on the other hand there is still something that bothers me a lot though, especially if you consider that this is a new and recent product: and that is the noise ..

As I mentioned, I have always dreamed of working with a silent pc (proportionally to its cost of course) and this was the reason why I have chosen that kind of PSU: I thought that the stock AMD cpu fan was more quiet and, above all, I convinced myself that additional case fans were not necessary because they only produced additional noise: "they are just some nerds' objects that I don't need.."

Now I understand this may not be the case (is it?) but, at the same time, I would need to find a good pc case with large enough front and back fans, soundproof and, it seems useful now, a larger clearance for a bigger psu heatsink

And, on a side note, correct me f I am wrong but It seemed to me that increasing the ram clock speed also increased the cpu-fan noise, right? And in fact I was very pleased of your indication to turn on that cool'n'quite feature that seems to work: the noise seems to have reduced.

Now, to sum it up: is it better to buy a larger PSU heatsink (like noctua and the like) and ignore the pc case and ventilation; or is it better to start with a better pc case with a good airflow (and may be with soundproofed elements) and then in case upgrading your psu cooler?
What kind of "damage", if any, could you bring to your components if you simply ignore air-flow? Would it be a real danger or just some nerdy obsession?

as usual, thanks for your attention: I have wrote a longer message this time so I thank you if you want to answer but I still need to complete with some supplementary consideration about ram and secure boot that I noticed; so now I am going to shut down the pc, take some pictures and then come back and complete.

thanks very much!!
 

citay

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About Secure Boot, once the default keys have been enrolled, you should be able to set it from Custom back to Standard, IIRC. The RAM settings look alright, it took the XMP timings, which is ok.

About the fan control: It's not that complicated.

First of all, we have to discern between two types of fans: DC-controlled and PWM-controlled. For this, we can simply look at the plugs. Do the fans have a 3-pin or 4-pin plug? If 3-pin, they are DC-controlled (meaning, you control their RPM = how fast they spin by modifying the DC voltage you feed them). If 4-pin, they are PWM-controlled (a pulse-width modulated signal over a 4th data line, and steady 12V DC supply). PWM fans will work DC-controlled too, but it's better to use PWM if they are PWM.



Since you have your CPU fan control on Auto, and it uses voltages on the right to set different RPMs for different temperatures, the board has detected a 3-pin fan. When looking at where the fan is connected on your board, you should therefore see something like on the bottom right of the above pic (3pin on 4pin header).

So, modifying the voltage is the one and only way to make a fan spin slower and faster. This is fully by design, the fans are made for that, and you're not voiding any warranty. Nobody wants their fans spin at full speed all the time, even though the temps are low. So we make a fan curve, where the fan is given less voltage when things are calm, and more voltage when things heat up.

Here is an example of a PWM-controlled fan curve:

BIOS_Fan1.png


And here a DC voltage-controlled fan curve:

BIOS_Fan4.png


It's no problem to reduce the voltage plenty. And this definitely makes sense. If the temps are low, why should the fans spin fast? They only should spin faster if the temps are higher.

There are even some CPU coolers that are "semi-passive". They will have a PWM-controlled fan that stays completely off below a certain PWM signal percentage. Often that point is below 20% PWM signal. So you could have a fan curve like this:
40°C -> 19%
45°C -> 30%
60°C -> 40%
90°C -> 80%

Only when CPU temps go above 40°C, will the fan actually start spinning. This is just an example to show you that even this isn't dangerous. You only need forceful cooling when the CPU is actually heating up, from being under full load. That's when the fans should spin faster. But not when the CPU is chilling.

You can watch a video about it here: Fan control (Youtube)

I like to have the fan curves ramping up more towards the right, as you can see on the two pictures.
 

citay

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Now, about the airflow. You definitely want airflow through the case. If you only have the CPU fan as your only one, it will have to spin faster because the hot air is not getting expelled from the case. Everything is stewing in its own stagnant heat. You will have a shorter life expectancy of things like capacitors on the mainboard because of the lack of heat removal. With a good airflow through the case (it doesn't even have to be that forceful), you actually don't need a soundproof case. Just use big enough fans and you will hardly hear them. With the CPU cooler getting unburdened by that nice case airflow, it too can spin the fan at a lower RPM for the same CPU temp.

In modern cases, the airflow will be like so:


Minus the fans on top of the case. But at least one, if not two fans in the front, and one exhaust fan in the rear, behind the CPU cooler.

Now, since we can control them to quite low RPM via fan control, and only make them spin a bit faster if the CPU is heating up under full load, there is no tornado going on. I have five (!) big fans in my case, two front intake fans, one rear exhaust fan, and two fans on the CPU cooler, and i barely hear it. That's because they all hover around a lowly 500 RPM when the CPU is cool enough.

Here is a good article about case airflow, however, it's in German, and you will have to make do with a bad Google-autotranslation:

PSU positioning: https://www.igorslab.de/en/pc-kuhlung-cpu-graphics-card/3/
Airflow variants with tower CPU cooler: https://www.igorslab.de/en/pc-kuhlung-cpu-graphics-card/4/
Airflow variants with a downblower CPU cooler (like AMD Wraith cooler): https://www.igorslab.de/en/pc-kuhlung-cpu-graphics-card/7/

If you want to improve your overall cooling, a better case airflow will achieve much more than a better CPU cooler.
 

ciproba14db02cd

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thanks
Since you have your CPU fan control on Auto, and it uses voltages on the right to set different RPMs for different temperatures, the board has detected a 3-pin fan. When looking at where the fan is connected on your board, you should therefore see something like on the bottom right of the above pic (3pin on 4pin header).

So, modifying the voltage is the one and only way to make a fan spin slower and faster. This is fully by design, the fans are made for that, and you're not voiding any warranty. Nobody wants their fans spin at full speed all the time, even though the temps are low. So we make a fan curve, where the fan is given less voltage when things are calm, and more voltage when things heat up.

It's no problem to reduce the voltage plenty. And this definitely makes sense. If the temps are low, why should the fans spin fast? They only should spin faster if the temps are higher.
Oh sorry

so when we talk about voltage regulations we are talking about reducing (or increasing) the voltage of the fans, NOT the voltage of the cpu!!

ahhhhhhhhh
that's so clear now!

I thought it was about reducing the voltage of the cpu: this is the reason why I was talking about the "very basics" of the pc ..:angel:

it's all clear now, let me go on and read your second post, apply those settings you suggested and get back with some pictures so we can talk a little more about airflow and a couple of technical issues on ram and secure boot.

I will still be here on the page for the next hour or so anyway since the pc is busy downloading linux and i can't turn it off right now, so if you want to add something to the indications about fans regulations please feel free to do that because I will be reading.

thanks
 
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