MSI Crosshair 15 B12UGZ keeps restarting when using both DIMMs (runs fine on 1 only)

[Otringal]

Hey, there! Ok here it goes... So, my brand-new laptop has a big problem: ever since I got it, it kept resetting randomly (anywhere between 10 min to 2 hours). Just so that you know, I'm not gonna ask why this happens, as I've already figured it out. BUT I really need your help with the next steps from here on out.

So, the reason for the resets is the fact that both my memory slots are occupied with 32GB of ADATA DDR4 modules running at 3200MHz, with 22-22-22-52 latency. That means I have a matched kit of 2x 32GB = 64GB in total. And the laptop says it's supporting 64GB of RAM, so I thought ok, since the resets smelled like bad RAM to me, I started testing the memory with both MemTest86, as well as Windows 11's own Memory Diagnostic Tool (Run -> mdsched.exe). And guess what, when both slots are populated, MemTest86 restarts around Test 13 (Hammer test) near the end, so it takes up quite some time (2-3h). Even better, MDSCHED (when pressing F1 for Options and selecting "Extended" mode) restarts super early on, around the 3-5% mark after no more than a few minutes. Again, both MemTest86 and MdSched fail with both DIMMs are present. If I am to remove any one of the modules from its slot, tests are passing great with no issues, no resets, no matter how I swap the DIMMs, they work fine individually, no matter what slot they're sitting in.

Therefore, I thought to myself, ok, let's do all types of BIOS upgrading/downgrading and see if anything solves it. No success. Then I started messing with my MSI BIOS settings in Advanced Mode (Left Alt + Right Ctrl + Right Shift + F2 for those who might find this useful) and with the now-unlocked THOUSANDS of options (yes, it's overkill), I played around with the clock limits, the 1DPC/2DPC settings, 2R performance optimizations, forcing 1R on both DIMMs, messing with the gear ratios (G1 and G2 work, G4 won't even post) etc., all that I could possibly think of. And still nothing. It's so strange, since it's clear that my ADATA modules are not faulty and also the motherboard memory slots themselves are not faulty, it's something about the memory controller possibly not being able to cope with both DIMMs running simultaneously for some reason.

Then another weird thing that popped up in the BIOS' memory settings is this following status page where I have some (possibly SPD) information which gives us (color coding is mine, you'll see below why):

• MC0 CH0 DIMM0 - Populated & Enabled, 32768 MB DDR4), 2 Ranks, Unknown manufacturer
• MC0 CH0 DIMM1 - Not Populated / Disabled
• MC1 CH0 DIMM0 - Populated & Enabled, 32768 MB DDR4), 2 Ranks, Unknown manufacturer
• MC1 CH0 DIMM1 - Not Populated / Disabled

If you pay close attention to the color coding that I've used above (in order to make things easier to spot) you'll see that apparently my laptop only has 1x memory channel (CH0), I am using the same DIMM0 on this only channel, but there are 2x different memory controllers (MC0 and MC1), all while the manufacturer is not even properly detected (it's ADATA, not some cheap unbranded RAM from AliExpress). This doesn't make any sense to me at all, it's physically incorrect. I mean, I only have 2 DIMMs, not 4 like on some desktops where you can risk populating the slots incorrectly for dual-channel mode, so I should have DIMM0 and DIMM1 populated, they should be running in dual-channel mode and there should be only 1x memory controller. Am I missing something here?

Any ideas, guys? Please help me understand if there's any way to fix this apart from buying new RAM and just hope for the best. Because for reasons I don't wanna get into right now (like this post already being huge), this is really not a good option for me at the moment. Also, I won't be able to get my hands on another set of 2x RAM modules to test the motherboard's brand compatibility for at least 2-3 more weeks and I really need to do a lot of work in the meantime. So, is there any modern-day expert out there who might be able help me out on this? Cause I used to think of myself as one like back 15+ years ago, but I'm not sure I'm aware of all the current trends and options when it comes to configuring the latest hardware.

Thank you sooo much!!!

 

[stormbody091150502d6]

Before replacing the memory, did you confirm the hardware compatible list from MSI technician?
It seems you problem is related to the compatibility. I am not sure if there are two RAM bundled with the laptop. If so and it was working properly, I think the problem is obvious.

 

[Otringal]

Hey! I did not replace the memory myself, it came like that from the distributor, they said the laptops originally come with 32GB, and since I ordered a 64GB version, they performed a memory upgrade at their service point before shipping it out, it's a standard practice apparently. However, I did try to check for an official MSI compatibility list and I did not find any of them. These lists are usually specific for a particular model, as various motherboards may have different compatibility issues. I remember many years ago there was this idea of QVL (Qualified Vendor List) where you could check for the approved brands for your respective model, but I found nothing on the MSI website for my model. Do you have any idea how I could get my hands on such a list? Cause if I decide to replace the RAM, I wanna make sure it's an officially approved one this time, not to run into the same problem again. And if it does the same with an approved brand, then I have a strong argument to send the laptop back for being faulty, since it'll be clear it's not the RAM that's causing the issues.

 

[stormbody091150502d6]

Actually, it is recommended to send the laptop to the local service center to replace the memory. They should know the compatible list and they are resopnsible to check everything is working properly after replacing the memory.

 

[Otringal]

Not saying no, but I bought it from a store/retailer/dealer who did this in-house, by themselves as an intermediary step, as they configure the so-called "bulk" systems further for the client's specifications and only then they ship them out. So, for example, they get the same MSI Crosshair 15 B12UGZ with a standard config, but then they list several configurations of this model at different price points, depending on the RAM capacity, SSD capacity, Windows 10/11, Home/Pro etc.. Therefore, unfortunately I'm not able to do anything about it. Anyhow, do you happen to know where I could get such a list for my laptop? Sort of like the QVL lists that were popular 'til not too long ago? Thanks!

 

[stormbody091150502d6]

If you want to have the hardware compatible list, it is recommended to submit the web ticket to MSI tech support.

 

[Otringal]

I'll try to find where that is, thanks! Too bad they no longer offer a QVL like they always used to do. That info should be public, for anyone buying their products (and not just in MSI's case), so that we don't risk running into stuff like this. After all it's in MSI's interest, otherwise customers can easily blame MSI for the incompatibility, as it's a 50-50 grey area here. Really, they should be looking into their own interest and offer such vital info without extra hassle on the customer's side. You bought this MSI mobo/laptop, here's what we recommend you pair it with for ensuring the best compatibility. Or here's what to avoid as the compatibility is uncertain (aka we didn't test them, there are chances for stuff to go wrong).

 

[stormbody091150502d6]

Totally agree with you. Bascially, I will recommend send the laptop the local service center while you want to replace the storage or memory.

 

[cmercure01252029c]

Hey, there! Ok here it goes... So, my brand-new laptop has a big problem: ever since I got it, it kept resetting randomly (anywhere between 10 min to 2 hours). Just so that you know, I'm not gonna ask why this happens, as I've already figured it out. BUT I really need your help with the next steps from here on out.

So, the reason for the resets is the fact that both my memory slots are occupied with 32GB of ADATA DDR4 modules running at 3200MHz, with 22-22-22-52 latency. That means I have a matched kit of 2x 32GB = 64GB in total. And the laptop says it's supporting 64GB of RAM, so I thought ok, since the resets smelled like bad RAM to me, I started testing the memory with both MemTest86, as well as Windows 11's own Memory Diagnostic Tool (Run -> mdsched.exe). And guess what, when both slots are populated, MemTest86 restarts around Test 13 (Hammer test) near the end, so it takes up quite some time (2-3h). Even better, MDSCHED (when pressing F1 for Options and selecting "Extended" mode) restarts super early on, around the 3-5% mark after no more than a few minutes. Again, both MemTest86 and MdSched fail with both DIMMs are present. If I am to remove any one of the modules from its slot, tests are passing great with no issues, no resets, no matter how I swap the DIMMs, they work fine individually, no matter what slot they're sitting in.

Therefore, I thought to myself, ok, let's do all types of BIOS upgrading/downgrading and see if anything solves it. No success. Then I started messing with my MSI BIOS settings in Advanced Mode (Left Alt + Right Ctrl + Right Shift + F2 for those who might find this useful) and with the now-unlocked THOUSANDS of options (yes, it's overkill), I played around with the clock limits, the 1DPC/2DPC settings, 2R performance optimizations, forcing 1R on both DIMMs, messing with the gear ratios (G1 and G2 work, G4 won't even post) etc., all that I could possibly think of. And still nothing. It's so strange, since it's clear that my ADATA modules are not faulty and also the motherboard memory slots themselves are not faulty, it's something about the memory controller possibly not being able to cope with both DIMMs running simultaneously for some reason.

Then another weird thing that popped up in the BIOS' memory settings is this following status page where I have some (possibly SPD) information which gives us (color coding is mine, you'll see below why):

• MC0 CH0 DIMM0 - Populated & Enabled, 32768 MB DDR4), 2 Ranks, Unknown manufacturer
• MC0 CH0 DIMM1 - Not Populated / Disabled
• MC1 CH0 DIMM0 - Populated & Enabled, 32768 MB DDR4), 2 Ranks, Unknown manufacturer
• MC1 CH0 DIMM1 - Not Populated / Disabled

If you pay close attention to the color coding that I've used above (in order to make things easier to spot) you'll see that apparently my laptop only has 1x memory channel (CH0), I am using the same DIMM0 on this only channel, but there are 2x different memory controllers (MC0 and MC1), all while the manufacturer is not even properly detected (it's ADATA, not some cheap unbranded RAM from AliExpress). This doesn't make any sense to me at all, it's physically incorrect. I mean, I only have 2 DIMMs, not 4 like on some desktops where you can risk populating the slots incorrectly for dual-channel mode, so I should have DIMM0 and DIMM1 populated, they should be running in dual-channel mode and there should be only 1x memory controller. Am I missing something here?

Any ideas, guys? Please help me understand if there's any way to fix this apart from buying new RAM and just hope for the best. Because for reasons I don't wanna get into right now (like this post already being huge), this is really not a good option for me at the moment. Also, I won't be able to get my hands on another set of 2x RAM modules to test the motherboard's brand compatibility for at least 2-3 more weeks and I really need to do a lot of work in the meantime. So, is there any modern-day expert out there who might be able help me out on this? Cause I used to think of myself as one like back 15+ years ago, but I'm not sure I'm aware of all the current trends and options when it comes to configuring the latest hardware.

Thank you sooo much!!!

Glad I found someone having the exact same issue. I bought my Crosshair 17 last month and it came with 2x8 (16GB) Samsung ram modules. Obviously both memory slots are working fine. As the laptop can support 64Gb (confirmed by a MSI ticket reply) I ordered a Crucial kit (2x32GB) recommended by a Crucial technician. After installing the 64GB kit I started having constant Windows 11 reboot and Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic where unable to complete test without a reboot.

I did the following tests
Test# 1 – use only 32GB ram module 1 in slot 1. No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

Test# 2 – use only 32GB ram module 1 in slot 2. No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

Test# 3 – use only 32Gb ram module 2 in slot 1: No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

Test# 4 – use only 32Gb ram module 2 in slot 2: No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

As soon as both ram modules where installed. Constant reboot.

I assumed compatibility issues between my laptop and Crucial modules.
Returned the Crucial ram and replaced with a Kinston Fury 2x32GB kit.
Same reboot issues. Again, I completed the same 4 tests I described above.
Everything results where the same. If only on 32Gb module was inserted no issues.
These tests with 2 different high-quality ram brands clearly indicates that the ram was OK and that both memory slots on the mainboard are also OK.

I posted a new MSI tickets with descriptions of my issues.
Hopefully they will be able to investigate this problem and recommend a fix.

 

[Otringal]

Yep, so it seems indeed the problem is when we use both DIMMs. Did you have these problems only at 2x32GB or also at lower capacities, like 2x16 or the initial 2x8 it came with?

 

[cmercure01252029c]

Yep, so it seems indeed the problem is when we use both DIMMs. Did you have these problems only at 2x32GB or also at lower capacities, like 2x16 or the initial 2x8 it came with?

Hi
The original Samsung 2x8GB SODIMM 260 Pin worked perfectly.
No issues when I used 1 Crucial 32GB module or 1 Kingston Fury 32GB. Windows 11 was very stable.
2 Crucial modules at the same time or 2 Kingston modules at the same time and Boom…..constant reboot. BIOS would report 64GB total memory but Windows 11 and Memtest86 would reboot after a few minutes.

I do not have smaller modules to test but the 2 Samsung 8GB SODIMM are very stable.
I posted another ticket with a list of 2x32GB from multiple manufacturers:
Samsung M471A4G43AB1-CWE
G.Skill RipJaws F4-3200C22D-64GRS
Teamgroup T-Force Zeus TTZD464G3200HC22DC-S01
Teamgroup Elite TED464G3200C22DC-S01
A-Tech ‎AT32G2D4S3200ND8N12V
Oloy MD4S3232220BZ0DH
Sabrent Rocket SB-DDR32X2

Hoping MSI technicians will be able to recommend something.
Why advertise a laptop with 64GB capabilities if they cannot recommend compatible RAM modules.

 

[Otringal]

Well, well... Let me answer that last question of yours, as this is a MAJOR red flag for me. If you go visit the advertising page on the official MSI link for the specifications, you'll find:

And we all know this, since this laptop has been advertised EVERYWHERE as supporting 64GB of RAM. However... Since my sub-model is B12UGZ, I went over to their Support page and then inside the Manuals section to open their own PDF at page 31 of 68. If you look close enough, you will find a delightful sentence there which looks kind of like this:

Please spot the difference Apparently they kinda know the Crosshair only supports 32GB, but kind of "forgot" about it... Seriously, MSI needs to fix this ASAP, else they risk a lot of legal things for discrepancies between what they're selling and what their product can actually handle. They had 6x BIOS updates until now and not ONCE did they observe anything worth looking into for memory problems, let alone try and fix something. And it's clear that this is something that probably applies to all MSI Crosshair laptops (and possibly more, when using the same architecture). As there is not one single use-case where you can have a stable configuration using 2x32GB for a total of 64GB, which for now remains to be a fake spec. P. S.: my laptop restarted while writing this exact post... how ironic

 

[cmercure01252029c]

Thank for your reply. I also saw this document.
My exact laptop model is Crosshair 17 B12UGZ-400CA.
On the Canadian section of MSI web site, right after the laptop model you can download the PDF specifications. It does indicate 2 slots, 64GB max ram.

MSI Crosshair 17 12U – Aim To Perform

Crosshair 17 is a gaming laptop packed with up to 12th Gen. Intel® Core™ i9 processor and NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3070 Ti graphics, cooled by cooler boost 5 for extreme performance. 360Hz display is best-suited for popular titles like Rainbow Six Extraction.

ca.msi.com

The laptop specs information on the Canadian web where I bought the laptop also indicated 64GB capacity. Because I saw conflicting information, I posted a ticket a few weeks ago relating these 2 documents and asking MSI support clarifications. Their reply indicated that 64Gb was supported on this model.

This laptop is very fast. The Intel Core i7 12700TH 12th generation, PCI-Express 4.0, Alder Lake gives great performance. I replaced the original 1TB M.2 SSD with 2 Samsung SSD NVMe PCIe 4 1TB each. I am getting average performance of 6995 MB/s on C drive and 6790 MB/s on D drive. This is 13 times faster than a SATA SSD PRO. This laptop has all the bells and whistles to process zillions of bytes per second.

It should be able to support 2x32GB ram. Maybe I am wrong but the BIOS need an update of else I will have the find the exact RAM brand that will fit this specific system.

 

[Otringal]

Question... when you said this:

I posted another ticket with a list of 2x32GB from multiple manufacturers:
Samsung M471A4G43AB1-CWE
G.Skill RipJaws F4-3200C22D-64GRS
Teamgroup T-Force Zeus TTZD464G3200HC22DC-S01
Teamgroup Elite TED464G3200C22DC-S01
A-Tech ‎AT32G2D4S3200ND8N12V
Oloy MD4S3232220BZ0DH
Sabrent Rocket SB-DDR32X2

what did you mean by it? Are you saying that you have already tried all of these manufacturers with 2x32GB and they all failed? Cause your initial post mentioned something about Samsung and Crucial, but then the list above has Samsung and many others, but Crucial is no longer there and I got a bit confused Thanks!

 

[cmercure01252029c]

Bonjour
The Samsung RAM I previously referred to where the original 2x8GB (16GB total) modules that came with the laptop. These are running perfectly and very stable. No reboot at all.
So far, I only tested Crucial and Kingston 64GB kit (2x32gb).
Crucial was purchased from Amazon Canada and returned.
Kingston was purchased from Newegg Canada and returned.

The list of other brands I sent to MSI support is to find out if they can recommend one of these.
I included in this list Samsung because they do have a 2x32GB kit so maybe these will be compatible with my Crosshair 17.

I cannot keep ordering and returning Ram kits without risking sellers to eventually stop returns.
Next purchase of a 64GB kit will be my last one. If it does not work, I will just install 1 32GB module in the laptop and keep the other as a spare or sell it and forget about the dream of 64GB. I will let you know once I get a reply from MSI support.

 

[Otringal]

Yep, please let me know, as in about a week or so I'll be back home and I wish to order a new kit myself, therefore I'm hoping to have at least some official recommendation from MSI saying these brands are compatible with our product, while these others are not, or we don't know and cannot confirm/infirm. Again, so strange of them not to have the QVL as before. This should not be private info, but public. But having such problems, no BIOS update, nobody noticing anything wrong except us, the users, plus no QVL... it really speaks of the quality MSI has at the moment. When I chose this laptop I told everybody I'm choosing MSI over any other brand because it's the best, I know them since I was a child, their motherboards were the most stable I have ever owned, but that was a long time ago and unfortunately things have changed... I regret my decision at this point.

 

[citay]

This is interesting.

Not saying no, but I bought it from a store/retailer/dealer who did this in-house,

The question is: Is this notebook available directly from MSI with 64 GB configuration in an spec? If not, i would almost say that there is some bug or incompatibility when using two dual-rank 32GB modules in this notebook, which hasn't been caught or fixed yet by MSI. Because a sudden reboot is not just some RAM instability, this is something more severe. I've done my fair share of RAM overclocking on normal PCs, and either it will start to have bit errors in RAM stress tests at some point, or it will outright fail to pass memory training. I've never once had to deal with sudden reboots.

So i'm thinking that the BIOS adresses 2x 32 GB wrong somehow, which would mean that none of the kits you can order would make it work, only MSI can fix this in a newer BIOS. The one thing i'm curious about are the BIOS settings though. Is there a screenshot function in the BIOS (F12 like on the desktop boards) or can you make photos of that? Maybe i can spot something that's not quite set correctly.

As for the "Up to 64 / 32 GB" discrepancy, that might be another hint. Maybe the "Up to 64 GB" was just a copy/paste thing from a similar model and they haven't thoroughly tested it on this model yet. Because as you guys said, no memory QVL to be found, which points to testing being focused primarily on the configurations they actually sell. Also, it's unclear which specification has a higher merit. But we already know that the manual overrules the datasheet at MSI, for example.

 

[Otringal]

Heya!!! First of all, thank you so much for answering to my request, I appreciate it sooo much!!!

Now about your question... hmm... not really sure how I could check if MSI themselves really sell them with 64GB directly, as all the offers I can find (both locally and externally) go through some type of vendors/distributors. All that MSI has is that official product page where they advertise the laptop model and offer some Overview, Specs, then Drivers & Manuals downloads, where if you dig a bit, you'll find the discrepancy I listed above.

About the BIOS snapshot function, unfortunately there isn't any. And unlike other BIOS models I've seen on YouTube for (basically all other) MSI products, which have a ton of bells and whistles with cool animated GUIs, mine is so rudimentary I can't believe it was made for such an expensive gaming laptop. It's basically a newer UEFI skin on top of an old 2000-era DOS-based BIOS (like the well-known American Megatrends one). It lacks so many functions like XMP, voltage control of the RAM etc... It's very basic and annoying.

I'll make a nice video walkthrough and post it here, where I'll show you what it has and also talk a little bit about what I did modify, although all my attempts failed to change anything so far... And yes, the problems I have are all about sudden resets. I never had an actual error being reported while testing the memory, not with Memtest86, nor with Windows' Memory Diagnostic. They just hit the right nerve and my system goes *poof* .

Btw, until I manage to record that video, what's your opinion about that thing I said in my OP, about the weird SPD info? I'll quote it here below, to make it easier to read:

Then another weird thing that popped up in the BIOS' memory settings is this following status page where I have some (possibly SPD) information which gives us (color coding is mine, you'll see below why):

• MC0 CH0 DIMM0 - Populated & Enabled, 32768 MB DDR4), 2 Ranks, Unknown manufacturer
• MC0 CH0 DIMM1 - Not Populated / Disabled
• MC1 CH0 DIMM0 - Populated & Enabled, 32768 MB DDR4), 2 Ranks, Unknown manufacturer
• MC1 CH0 DIMM1 - Not Populated / Disabled

If you pay close attention to the color coding that I've used above (in order to make things easier to spot) you'll see that apparently my laptop only has 1x memory channel (CH0), I am using the same DIMM0 on this only channel, but there are 2x different memory controllers (MC0 and MC1), all while the manufacturer is not even properly detected (it's ADATA, not some cheap unbranded RAM from AliExpress). This doesn't make any sense to me at all, it's physically incorrect. I mean, I only have 2 DIMMs, not 4 like on some desktops where you can risk populating the slots incorrectly for dual-channel mode, so I should have DIMM0 and DIMM1 populated, they should be running in dual-channel mode and there should be only 1x memory controller. Am I missing something here?

Again, thanks so much!!!

 

[citay]

Sure, i always try to help if i can. Yeah, so if MSI don't sell them directly, then the question is, does any of the configurations they offer have 64 GB from factory? Even similar models, not just the 15" one. Any model of this platform generation. Because if not, maybe they "neglected" that part of testing and there is some show-stopping BIOS bug essentially preventing it from working. You know, like an integer overflow or something, stuff that will immediately trigger a reboot, not from the RAM being unstable, but from something like a race condition.

I wouldn't pay too much mind about the BIOS status page, it's not too relevant what's written there, although it could be another sign that they never had the 2x 32 GB kits in for testing with that BIOS before. About MC0/MC1, see here, it's correct that they made up the two slots from "DIMM0" of each of the two memory controllers of this CPU generation. The pictures there should explain it, because if they would've taken DIMM0 and DIMM1, it would've ran in single-channel mode. Obviously the information is slightly confusing with there being only two DIMM slots, but the CPU being able to manage four slots.

 

[cmercure01252029c]

Bonjour
I do agree with your last response. I also suspect the issue is with the MSI BIOS (my laptop has the latest I found on the web site).
I verified with MSI support before to ensure the laptop had 64GB capabilities.
They replied YES. See attached PDF. Hope I can trust the MSI answer because my laptop reference number was on the form.

I have included a zip with a few pictures from my BIOS.
Images 3 and 4 are showing the 2x8 Samsung original ram. This is the ram I am using at the moment. Very stable.
Image10 is showing the BIOS with the Crucial 2x32 modules. The BIOS could identify both slots.
Image 11 is showing the BIOS with the Kingston 2x32 modules. The BIOS could identify both slots.

No reply yet from MIS on my new ticket question. Hope I am not the only one on the planet attempting to install 64GB in a laptop that MSI confirmed it does support.