MSI Crosshair 15 B12UGZ keeps restarting when using both DIMMs (runs fine on 1 only)

cmercure01252029c said:
Bonjour
I do agree with your last response. I also suspect the issue is with the MSI BIOS (my laptop has the latest I found on the web site).
I verified with MSI support before to ensure the laptop had 64GB capabilities.
They replied YES. See attached PDF. Hope I can trust the MSI answer because my laptop reference number was on the form.

I have included a zip with a few pictures from my BIOS.
Images 3 and 4 are showing the 2x8 Samsung original ram. This is the ram I am using at the moment. Very stable.
Image10 is showing the BIOS with the Crucial 2x32 modules. The BIOS could identify both slots.
Image 11 is showing the BIOS with the Kingston 2x32 modules. The BIOS could identify both slots.

No reply yet from MIS on my new ticket question. Hope I am not the only one on the planet attempting to install 64GB in a laptop that MSI confirmed it does support.
Click to expand...
Based on your test, it seems the laptop does support 2*32 GB memory(Crucial and Kingston).
I think it best ask the hardware compatible list from MSI support before upgrading the memory.
 
I really like my new laptop but very disappointed by MSI support reply.
We recommend you contact our local service center to upgrade RAM.

What will the service center do? Certainly not test multiple memory brands. They will expect me to buy ram. Pay $75 to ship the laptop and the ram, charge me $150 to install the ram. Maybe test it and charge me another $75 to ship back the laptop with a note indicating the ram I bought is not compatible.
Great example of a merry-go-round situation.
Case close. I am clearly on my own to find compatible ram.
 
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I still haven't received an answer to my ticket, but it'll probably be the same as yours, which will REALLY disappoint me (not to mention piss me off a lot).
Until then, however, here are the videos I promised:


With this next one, please check the timestamps marked as !!! IMPORTANT !!! if you cannot watch it all, as the video is quite long:what?:


With the BIOS walkthrough video, basically my biggest disappointment at the moment is the fact that I cannot find any place to modify the DRAM voltage. And that was my only hope for the time being, to somehow stabilize the whole thing by slightly upping the voltage :bonk: So, if anyone has any idea on where I could find those settings, I'd be sooooooo thankful!!!
 
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Thank you very much. I took note of the links and watched them on your tube.
Very informative and a clear indication that MSI Crosshair have problems handling 64GB ram.
My most disappointment is that they MSI don’t seem to care at all.
As soon (and if ever) I find a solution I will post information to you.

By the way do you some time make disk clone or full backups of your c drive?
On one of my memory test Windows 11 rebooted and could not restart correctly. My only choice was to go into windows 11 recovery menu after an automatic disk check at boot time. No options I tried with Windows recovery would correctly start windows as expected. The only available fix in the recovery options was a complete reinstallation (a real pain).
By chance I had made 2 full backups on a disk and one full clone on another disk before playing with the new memory. Using Acronis boot on a USB stick I reinstall my complete Windows image in 5 minutes.
 
Hmm, about the backups or partition clones, I stopped doing that a long time ago, after having issues when restoring to a previous state. In theory all should have been smooth, but practice showed me that restoration always has some loose ends and some files get corrupted, or even the partition table or MBR/GPT suffers a bit, therefore I said there's no point, if I ever have to do it, I'll just reinstall Windows. After all, ever since 2002 I re-installed Windows a few thousands of times, without any exaggeration :) I had days when I was a teenager, when I was reinstalling Windows 2-3 times a day, every day, experimenting with different things. And it was back when I had to use boot disks (floppy) and a lot of hacks in order to get things going (Win 95C/NT/98SE/Me/2000/XP era). Nowadays, reinstalling Win7/10/11 is a breeze :D But yeah, still unpleasant if you had stuff to do and this thing happens :(

UPDATE: Because I am still not sure where the DRAM voltage control is in the BIOS, I tried something last night. In my video, right around 24:47 you can see the PLL Voltage Offset for both the System Agent (SA) and the Memory Controller (MC). There in the clip I said I did not mess with any of them, since the System Agent (SA) should contain the Memory Controller (MC), therefore I'm not sure why there's 2 separate menu entries for them. So I left them alone since I didn't wanna break something. But last night I gave it a shot and upped the voltage on both. On the right side you'll see the possible values are 0-15, which represent units of 17.5mV each. If I understand this correctly, it means that "1" should be 17.5, while "15" should be 262.5. And since this is an offset, it means it's on top of my already present 1200 (1.2V), meaning you can over-voltage the thing up to 1.4625V which is more than enough. I went as far as "6" on the System Agent (SA) and all the way up to "15" on the Memory Controller (MC) but... well... nothing. So I got mad, reverted it completely to be safe, as I didn't like the approach anyway, but just wanted to see if giving it a bit more voltage would help make it more stable, as many times (especially in overclocking), this makes a big difference. But no success :( Also, my MSI ticket changed its status from "New inquiry" to "Processed", but there's no reply, nothing, just the status changed :) I guess I'll just have to wait a bit more for now...
 
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I talked with a service specialist who has worked on many MSI laptop.
He confirmed the max ram on Crosshair 17 is 32GB (not 64GB).
I am really getting a lot of conflicting information on this issue. Is max capacity 32GB or 64GB.
I will wait for the next BIOS update (if one comes) before attempting again a ram increase on this laptop.
 
Yay... another confirmation we might be right :cautious:
Question: since my ticket still has no answer, I'm also getting conflicting information on its status (should not surprise me, it seems as though MSI likes confusion):

So, my "Ticket History" shows me this:

1672870763047.png


And when I go into the actual ticket, I can further see this:

1672870720965.png


Yet there's nothing there, except my original post. There's no such thing as a "last post" to justify the date and timestamp. My post is also the last post. They didn't reply with anything. Is this normal? Did you have the same when you submitted your ticket? Cause it seems like they managed to change the status to "Processed" (which can be interpreted as "we saw it, solved the issue, we're done"), all while giving nothing back in return. Is that it? Or is "Processed" more like "we're in the middle of investigating this, we'll be back with an answer once we're ready"? It still doesn't explain a different date & timestamp for the "Last post" tab. Like I said, I'm really confused... :unsure:
 
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Hmm... got a reply... Not sure what to say about it. I'll first show you the post, then I'll explain why I have my doubts:

Based on your information, we know that the system would auto restart when 2*32GB memeory is installed.

As you mentioned, this problem is considered as a compatibility problem with the specific 32GB RAM.
Since the ADATA memory is not tested with this notebook, we cannot guarantee the system stability and performance.

We suggest you try to contact the local service center for further help since they are using the MSI approval memory to have the most compatibility and stabilty.
Service Center Locations for the Notebook

Personally, I also suggest you try to check the compatibility list of the SSD vendor, they also have the list of the specific notebook model.
For example: https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/msi-(micro-star)/crosshair-15-b12ugsz-481
(This webpage is for Crosshair 15 B12UGSZ but it's the same design as your notebook)

However, I still need to inform you that the compatibility list is provided by the SSD vendor, these SSD are not tested by MSI, so we cannot guarantee the performance or stability.
Click to expand...

As you can see, the paragraphs are a bit dubious. Not only is that long off-topic thing about the SSD (which I never asked about), but the thing they said about my RAM issue is still not clear to me. Not sure if they are acknowledging the fact that they're aware of the 2x32GB instabilities, or if they're just saying "we hear you, what you're saying makes sense" and just re-iterate what I'm saying. Cause I really need to see a clear statement, black on white, if they DO support 64GB or NOT... Of course I've already sent my reply asking for more clarity on their statement, but until the next reply (which will hopefully come), what do you think? Am I already too confused and their message is clear, or are things still not 100% clear for you also?

Anyway, apart from recommending the same old "go to the MSI service" approach, they seem to hint towards Crucial as compatible RAM (which again states 64GB is supported on their website, we're going in a loop here :cautious: ). But as far as I remember, you said you already bought precisely a 2x32GB Crucial kit and the restarts were still there, so I guess I shouldn't risk going the same route, as I'll just waste my money and get angry... Probably 64GB is out of the question at this point in time, despite the remaining clarification I'll be having with them.

Cheers!
 
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Hi.
I believe they are aware of the 64GB issues (many reports in other forums, web sites, you tube, etc.).
Like you I am a bit confused by the reply you got. Why send us back to their own approved service center to find compatible ram? Instead, shouldn’t they call these MSI approved center, find info, advise users like us and maybe post on their web site a list of compatible Ram.

Anyway, my Crosshair 17 B12UGZ-400CA did run extremely well and super fast with a single 32GB (Crucial or Kingston Fury, in either slot 1 or slot 2). I am investigating a third and final test with another 64GB kit and if this one also fail, I will just buy one 32GB Crucial or Kingston and put an end to the “64GB Complex Project”. Will keep you posted.
Have a good day.
 
Hi,
I found some compatible memory list from Crucial.
www.crucial.com

MSI (Micro Star) Crosshair 15 B12UGSZ-481 | SSD & RAM Upgrades | crucial.com

Find compatible upgrades and system info for MSI (Micro Star) Crosshair 15 B12UGSZ-481. Discover RAM and SSD compatibility, slots, and max capacity.
www.crucial.com www.crucial.com
I believe Crucial verify the laptop with the memory from the list and it is more credible.
You can refer to the list and buy the memory.
 
Thanks for the info. I tried to run the Crucial Scanner 4 weeks ago and it could not complete the laptop test. I tried the scan again and it worked (however reporting my system as “Katana GF76 12UE” instead of “Crosshair 17 B12UGZ”. Probably very close similitude between mainboards and BIOS. Scan is indicating max ram can be 64GB, but I will probably purchase 1x32GB or 2x16GB (already tested the 64GB kit and it did not work).
 
Katana GF76 12UE and Crosshair 17 B12UGZ are different. They should install the diffferent BIOS. You can check from MSI website.
However, Crosshair 17 B12UGZ and Crosshair 17 B12UGSZ are similiar. They install the same BIOS. From the specification, only GPU is different.
Therefore, you can refer to the memory list from the link and try to buy the 2x32GB memory to confirm. I think not all of memory are compatible with Crosshair 17 B12UGZ becasue they only list some models of memory.
 
Since cmercure already tested those Crucial SO-DIMMs (despite what the app scan reported, we know his laptop model and Crucial says it supports it, although practical tests showed otherwise), I think it's safe to say it's again supported on paper, but reality shows different.

I received another reply to my question and again, nobody "confessed" anything by saying "no, it does not support 64GB", but this time this is what they said:

According to your notebook, it's originally equipped with 2*8GB RAM.
If you want to upgrade the RAM, you can choose 2*16GB.

The following list is the RAM tested by MSI:
- SODIMM,DDR4,16GB,1600(3200)MHz,HYNIX/HMAA2GS6AJR8N-XNN0
- SODIMM,DDR4 SDRAM,16GB,1600(3200)MHz,SAMSUNG/M471A2G43AB2-CWE
- SODIMM,DDR4 SDRAM,16GB,1600(3200)MHz,SAMSUNG/M471A2K43EB1-CWE
- SODIMM,DDR5 SDRAM,16GB,2400(4800)MHz,SAMSUNG/M425R2GA3BB0-CQK
If you cannot find the same RAM module, you can choose the same brand.
Click to expand...

So, I think the situation is clear: They are aware, yet cannot admit it since it would be a nasty thing to put out, but also won't recommend us to try it anymore, rather they're politely hinting towards sticking to the 32GB range and not exceeding it (for now, at least)...

What can I say... yet an unfortunate case of fake advertisement, albeit unintended. It'll only become legit advertisement once they manage to fix their issues with the Memory Controller through some BIOS update, so that the marketed "64GB support" will also match the user experience. But until then, no matter what anyone says, for me it's poor testing which led to an unintentional case of fake advertising :(

Also, note that they only recommend the real OEM memory manufacturers, such as Hynix and Samsung, no other rebranded (and much easily available) DIMMs such as Kingston, Crucial, G.Skill, Corsair, Patriot, Transcend, ADATA etc. Very easy card to play, since unless you get those, all other brands can get under the "well... we never recommended those to begin with" umbrella...

I'll go for 2x16GB (since keeping 1x32GB will use half the bandwith due to being in Single channel mode, rather than Dual channel) and I can only hope that the G.Skills I'm about to buy will work and NOT reveal that in fact the problem is when using both SO-DIMM slots, regarding of capacity :ROFLMAO: That'd be a really :what?: moment... But yeah, it's enough I'm dropping the capacity to 1/2, I don't wanna do the same with the bandwidth (which on average equates to a loss of about 20-30% performance). So... I'll have to buy 2x16GB, otherwise I'll just end up with a slow 32GB, compared to the fast 64GB I initially dreamt about :cry:
 
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Good suggestion: 2*16 Dual channel should be faster than 1x32 Single channel.
I still really like my new MSI Crosshair laptop but disappointed that finding compatible 64GB ram is so difficult.
Meantime I am still planning a third and final test with a G.Skill Ripjaws 64GB kit. I contacted the seller, clearly explained I had previously tested Crucial and Kingston 2x32GB kits, I know how to correctly handle ram, etc. and had to return both for incompatible issues. I asked confirmation by email that they would refund me in case testing is negative.

They replied positively that a refund would be done if the G.Skill modules do not work in my laptop.
It will probably take 1 week before I get the ram. I will post updates later.
 
A little bit more confusion. On Newegg I found 6 MSI Crosshair 17 with 64GB configuration. See Items:
9SIB6HNJA00610, 9SIB6HNJA00613, 9SIB6HNJA00614, 9SIB6HNJA00617, 9SIB6HNJA00618, 9SIB6HNJA00622
I contacted the seller to find out what brand of RAM these laptops are using as it would help a lot of users like me and you looking for memory upgrades.
 
Hmm... not sure if that makes any difference, as my vendor had the same in terms of listing. But behind the scenes it's most likely that the same thing happens: there's only 1 "stock" version of the laptop, then the vendors perform in-house upgrades in order to populate their listings with different configurations. Even the MSI guys said my laptop comes stock with 2x8GB (see my posts above where he said "According to your notebook, it's originally equipped with 2*8GB RAM."). So, in reality I don't think there's such a thing as MSI populating the laptops with anything different other than one and the same stock version, which later gets changed by the vendors, depending on the config you're ordering.

In other news, I'm close to buying my new 2x16GB modules, however I'm a bit skeptical over the following thing: although everyone out there says "there's no such thing as dual channel modules, it's just a matter of having the same specs for the modules so that the motherboard can run them as dual channel, bla bla bla bla", I can't help but notice that ALL (and I mean all) RAM brands/manufacturers out there have different serial/part numbers for single-channel modules vs. dual-channel modules. And that's a bit suspicious. I mean... if a kit is nothing more than 2x "single" modules tested together for compatibility and packaged together inside the same box, then why would they go through all the trouble of labelling these modules separately with different bar codes and product numbers, as well as listing them under different tables/places in their catalogs?

I'm still not sure that 2x "single" modules are just as good as a kit of 2x "dual" modules...
 
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The RAM kits are just two normal, identical modules, which are tested as a pair. The same modules get sold as single ones and as kits, obviously with differing model names, because almost all RAM brands encode the configuration (module size, total size etc.) in the model name. I believe in almost all cases, there is no "binning" (selection) necessary to make two identical modules work together as a kit, so the effort for that is minimal. However, in some cases, they might keep the same model name of a RAM kit, but change the modules underneath the heatspreader to use different ICs (memory chips) according to availability, if several ICs can hit the same speeds and timings. So then, by buying a kit, you simply ensure that you get two 100% identical modules, something you can't necessarily ensure when you bought one module three years ago and another one now. They might have changed the IC while keeping the same model name.

So yes, there are cases when two single modules are worse than a kit of two, and those cases are when something has been changed about the modules. Otherwise, having a kit is just an extra bit of safety that it has at least been tested to work together and is identical.

About the BIOS, there really is a huge detail of settings, i've never seen that many on any desktop board. When you try the RAM at a low DDR speed, much lower than it's capable of, then it would also need much less voltage to achieve that. So i don't think it's a matter of not having enough voltage. On the IMC side, maybe, but again, cranking down the speed should make it much more palatable if that was really the issue.
 
Thanks a lot! Unfortunately I can't find ANY kits for sale locally, I can only order online and wait for up to 2 (more) weeks. :cautious: The only stuff I can find is a ton of "single" modules. So I'm basically wondering just how much am I risking if I'll buy 2x modules from the same vendor, at the same time, with obviously the same brand model and specs. Factory-wise they might not be 100% produced one after another (obviously), but also I don't think they'd be that far apart... there should be some correlation between the manufacturing and shipping processes when talking about 2 modules which ended up for sale at the same shop, most likely coming in in 1 lot/shipment. But I'm still scared enough not to fall into a similar case I have at the moment, where they'll "misbehave" when running at the same time and the vendor would then say "well... sorry... it's your fault for not getting a proper kit, therefore no money back policy for you, mister!" :bonk:
 
Most of the time it should be no problem at all, if you order them at the same time. RAM is also known by the shops to be "difficult" sometimes, so there should also be no big problems in returning the RAM, should you have problems.
 
Reference to my previous reply. I understand Otringal point of view. Effectively sellers may perform many modifications on a basic MSI Crosshair 17 to sell these with 64GB and it works. Giving me the ram brand they use might not help me at all. By the way I got a reply that basically said nothing. No mention of the ram they use.
I was also concerned about refunds if incompatibility issues. For Crucial, Kingston Fury and the upcoming G.Skill Ripjaws I always ask sellers an email confirmation I could return ram and get refund if incompatible. Maybe you could buy 2 modules of exact same type (if not kit available) and still get written confirmation of refund if problems. Seller will know in advance, and it should reduce potential for arguments.

As for the issue of single-channel versus dual-channel I am not an expert. I asked a few gamers. According to them I would not perceive much difference between 2*16GB or 1x32GB on fast CPU such as I7 unless I spend hours analyzing both configurations. Maybe? However, I agree with Citay that a kit as much better chances of having modules with 100% identical specs and better chance to work well together.
 
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