MSI Crosshair 15 B12UGZ keeps restarting when using both DIMMs (runs fine on 1 only)

Of course you would see the difference between single- and dual-channel operation, because single-channel has exactly half the memory bandwidth. So actually the CPU gets starved, because everything has to go through the RAM first. The more RAM-transfer-intensive something is, the bigger the difference.

Let's say you have dual-channel DDR4-3200 running. Then taking one module away, it would be similar to running dual-channel DDR4-1600! That's the bandwidth you get from single-channel DDR4-3200. Would you say that running 2x DDR4-1600 (if such low speeds existed) is not much different from running 2x DDR4-3200? It makes no sense.

As i said, it all depends on what you do. If everything is only loaded once via RAM and then fits into the CPU's caches: Fine. If there's a lot of RAM transfers: Catastrophy.
 
Regarding the speed, modern memory has 64-bit addressing mode, plus since it's DDR, it's able to read twice per clock period. In our case, that means our RAM clock is 1600MHz, which gets multiplied by 2x (cause it's DDR), giving a transfer rate of 3200MT/s and if you factor in the 64-bit (8-Byte) addressing per each channel, it means we have 3200MT/s * 8B per channel = 25600MB/s per channel. If you have just 1x RAM stick of 32GB you have 25.6GB/s, while if you have 2x16GB, you still get the same 32GB capacity, but at a whopping 51.2GB/s. The difference you'll notice won't be twice as fast, but around 25% faster (your mileage may vary depending on the application).

Now, about MSI's response :) In my last reply to them, I asked them to try and fix this issue with a future BIOS update. And this is what I got today:
We will try to check this problem but we cannot guarantee there will be a new BIOS update for this compatibility problem since there are another user installed 2*32GB RAM (e.g. the crucial RAM) but they have no problem.
Click to expand...

So, at the moment they're saying chances are they won't look further into it, as I'm more of an "isolated case", since everyone else (especially Crucial RAM users :rolleyes:) experience no such issue... :bonk:@cmercure01252029c: can you pretty please send me your MSI ticket #ID so that I can reference it in my own ticket and basically tell them "Well, not true! Other people have already tried Crucial and it still fails, it's not a brand thing, it's an issue with this family of laptops 100%, so please go check ticket #xyz where you'll see the same issue happening with Crucial memory as well".

Feel free to send me the ticket number via a private message if you feel uncomfortable making it public here, but I really don't want to let go of this issue and I want to further point out more evidence, because it's not the user who must comply and buy Crucial branded RAM, but MSI who has to solve this issue. Not only is it not ok for them to make you buy a certain brand of RAM if you want your laptop to work properly, but actually that doesn't even solve the problem, since users like you have tried Crucial and still didn't manage to get past the problem at all. Thanks a lot!!!
 
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Ok, so I have sent them your ticket as well and the latest reply from them is this:
We're checking the problem now.
For now, we suggest you try to 2x16GB RAM to upgrade your notebook.
Click to expand...
It seems the ball started rolling now that I've shown them your ticket. Just curious why your initial ticket did not do the job and they dismissed your initial evidence, it was probably handled by a different team or staff member, no idea. Let's just hope we'll stand a better chance this time around.
 
Ok... I finally managed to fix this problem. And ironically, using ADATA memory - the same brand which didn't work initially. Long story short: I changed the modules with some others, but the difference is that the ones which did not work have the package number AD4S320032G22-BGN, while the ones that did work are AD4S320032G22-SGN. A quick lookup on ADATA's website reveals that the only difference is that B means Bulk, why S means Single Tray, along with the other options (R - Retail and DT - Double Tray), which I haven't tried. Apart from this general package number, all my Bulk SO-DIMMs have their individual serial numbers (the small labels stuck on the chip dies themselves) starting with 2Mxxxxxxxxxx, while the Single Tray ones start with 1Mxxxxxxxxxx. And I've tested a whole batch of modules.

Therefore, I'll have to come back to my earlier questions about packaging serial numbers: if the only thing that would differ would be the way in which they get packaged, and therefore offer some cost saving solution for Bulk for example, when compared to the others, then:
  1. 1. why would they go through the extra trouble of labelling them differently (both the package and the chips themselves) and also separate them in the catalog by different categories?
  2. 2. why would the Bulk ones exhibit problems, while the Single Tray ones be just fine (I didn't even need Double Tray which is the equivalent of a dual-channel kit)?
There's clearly a difference somewhere in the manufacturing process, they cannot be simply manufactured on the same assembly line, with the same specs, at the same location, from the same materials, one after another in identical batches and then get randomly selected for being a B, R, S or DT version. I remind you that the Bulk ones are not faulty SO-DIMMs, they work perfectly well by themselves, but my MSI rejects them if they're both running at the same time. And I tested 7 modules in different pairs/combinations, the results were always the same.
 
Glad you fix your issue. Regarding my MSI Crosshair 17 it will be the first and last MSI computer I will ever buy. I purchased a third 2x32 Kit and again constant reboot running Memtest, Windows 11. I have tested 3 brands of 64GB kit (Crucial, Kingston, G.Skill). They all failed. Contrary to what MSI maintain this laptop model cannot support 64GB. I posted multiple tickets on MSI and never received the support I expected. As soon as possible I will get rid of this laptop and purchase another brand.
 
So sad to hear it still didn't work for you :( I'm now wondering whether the ADATA which I managed to get now would also do the trick for you. If you ever wish to give it a try, let me know and I can provide all the info u need regarding serial numbers etc. so that you can get the same thing as I did, which would hopefully work for you as well. But regarding your feelings towards MSI, I completely understand.

Btw, I keep checking for BIOS updates every now and then and it's the 3rd time when I see this strange issue: the BIOS version on their website remained the same, but every 3-4 weeks it keeps changing its release date to newer and newer times (it was Oct when I first got my laptop, then 1-2 weeks later it was Dec and now it's Jan). And I download it, thinking "who knows...", do a binary check but it's exactly the same file. :cautious: I'm assuming it's a cheap way of "renewing" their releases, trying to show people they're constantly updating things, but it's silly and pointless, as a simple check of the change log will reveal that the E1583IMS.10D version (latest at the moment) was indeed released on the 23rd of September 2022, yet now it's 19th of Jan 2023 (after multiple updates of this date, in small increments), so I see no point in doing that. And if they're not doing that, then I don't understand why the date keeps increasing every few weeks out of nowhere. :unsure:
 
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cmercure01252029c said:
Glad I found someone having the exact same issue. I bought my Crosshair 17 last month and it came with 2x8 (16GB) Samsung ram modules. Obviously both memory slots are working fine. As the laptop can support 64Gb (confirmed by a MSI ticket reply) I ordered a Crucial kit (2x32GB) recommended by a Crucial technician. After installing the 64GB kit I started having constant Windows 11 reboot and Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic where unable to complete test without a reboot.

I did the following tests
Test# 1 – use only 32GB ram module 1 in slot 1. No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

Test# 2 – use only 32GB ram module 1 in slot 2. No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

Test# 3 – use only 32Gb ram module 2 in slot 1: No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

Test# 4 – use only 32Gb ram module 2 in slot 2: No issues at all.
Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic completed all tests and Windows 11 working fine.

As soon as both ram modules where installed. Constant reboot.

I assumed compatibility issues between my laptop and Crucial modules.
Returned the Crucial ram and replaced with a Kinston Fury 2x32GB kit.
Same reboot issues. Again, I completed the same 4 tests I described above.
Everything results where the same. If only on 32Gb module was inserted no issues.
These tests with 2 different high-quality ram brands clearly indicates that the ram was OK and that both memory slots on the mainboard are also OK.

I posted a new MSI tickets with descriptions of my issues.
Hopefully they will be able to investigate this problem and recommend a fix.
Click to expand...

Exactly same for me, I have MSI Crosshair 17 i9 12900H , It has 2x8 GB Samsung 3200 CAS22 ram modules when it arrived.
I bought 2x32 GB Kingston Fury Impact 3200 CAS20 to upgrade the system to 64 GB ram

After inserted both and make system memory 64 GB,Windows 11 begins constant reboot. Everytime I run the pc it randomly reboots after loging to win 11

Did somebody find any solution ? or (I read the entire post) must I use max 2x16 GB = 32 GB to avoid this problem ?

Thanks and regards
 
Sorry you have encountered the same issue. I purchased and returned 3 different kits of high quality 2x32GB (64gb) memory and encountered the same issues with all 3 brands (Crucial, Fury and G.Gkill). Every time I completed the same testing procedure: Memetest86 (2 complete pass), Windows 11 memory test, windows 11 64 bit running multiple applications. The results:
  • First 1x32 GB module in slot 1: OK
  • First 1x32 GB module in slot 2: OK
  • Second 1x32 GB module in slot 1: OK
  • Second 1x32 GB module in slot 2: OK
Both 32 GB modules in slots 1 and 2 (64 GB total): Bang. Constant reboot after 20 seconds in Windows 11 64 bit. MemeTest86 would also constantly crash within the first minutes of testing.

MSI keep reporting my Crosshair 17 can support 64 GB ram however I do not believe them anymore. 3 high quality and well-known ram modules cannot be faulty. And slot 1 and slot 2 are fine because the 2x8 GB modules works perfectly. I personally believe their BIOS has an issue. For now, I have stopped attempting to increase ram on this laptop. This will be my first and last MSI laptop. My next laptop will not be an MSI.
 
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Thanks for reply

What is your bios release number and date ? Have you ever updated ? if yes did you tried ram modules with the latest bios ?

I heard from a local computer service that Samsung brand 2x32gb 3200 mhz ram modules works without any problem.

I will order 2x32 samsung ram modules online and give a try. I will let you know if it succeeds. Else I will try 2x16 GB and stay double channel 32 GB ram

P.S. I will use your above post to open a support ticket to MSI also, because you realy described the problem very well.

Regards
 
My exact model is MSI Crosshair 17 B12UGZ-400CA. The BIOS info: 17L3EM51.10D, 09-01-2022. Please let me know if the Samsung modules will work. For now I have stopped purchasing and returning RAM. Thanks.
 
Ok I will let you know with samsung ram modules

My Model is MSI Crosshair 17 B12UGSZ-266UK

Bios Info: E17L3IMS.106 Release Date: 2022/01/08

There is a newer version bios at MSI website: E17L3IMS.10D 2023-02-13
I will update this bios version before trying Samsung Rams.
 
Hey! Did the BIOS update do the trick for ya? As far as I'm concerned, my only fix is what I've described above in this post... basically I had to swap the RAM modules and it seemed to work, never had any problem since then. But I know this didn't work for everyone :(
 
Otringal said:
Hey! Did the BIOS update do the trick for ya? As far as I'm concerned, my only fix is what I've described above in this post... basically I had to swap the RAM modules and it seemed to work, never had any problem since then. But I know this didn't work for everyone :(
Click to expand...
I did the bios update, but now there is 2x8 gb total 16 gb ram in the laptop as it came from the factory. After the bios update, I didn't try the 2x32 gb configuration because the samsung brand ram modules I ordered haven't arrived yet. When the 2x32 gb samsung ram modules come, I will try and install them. If the problem is solved, I will not be able to understand whether it was fixed from the bios update or from the Samsung brand ram modules. Either way, I hope it gets fixed and I can use it as 64gb.
 
Hmm, not true, you can still downgrade your BIOS and revert to your previous version once the new RAM comes. So, if with your updated BIOS all is fine, there's nothing stopping you from temporarily downgrading it to see if it was the BIOS version or the new RAM that fixed it.
 
cmercure01252029c said:
My exact model is MSI Crosshair 17 B12UGZ-400CA. The BIOS info: 17L3EM51.10D, 09-01-2022. Please let me know if the Samsung modules will work. For now I have stopped purchasing and returning RAM. Thanks.
Click to expand...


Yes it worked 👍

I bought 2x32 GB Samsung DDR4 3200 CL22 Ram modules. Both memtest86+ and mdsched.exe returnet wit no error. Everytest passed successfuly. System works without any problem.

The exact 32 gb ram model is: Samsung M471A4G43AB1-CWE

System: MSI Crosshair 17 B12UGSZ
Bios: E17L3IMS.10D Release Date: 2022/09/01
 
So glad it worked for you as well!
In this case, my suspicion grows stronger: this family of laptops is indeed so picky about different DIMMs, the only apparent solution is to just get new RAM and it will most likely work. For some reason though, it seems to never work with the first pair, almost like it wants to anger you a bit before settling down :D
 
Otringal said:
So glad it worked for you as well!
In this case, my suspicion grows stronger: this family of laptops is indeed so picky about different DIMMs, the only apparent solution is to just get new RAM and it will most likely work. For some reason though, it seems to never work with the first pair, almost like it wants to anger you a bit before settling down :D
Click to expand...

all MSI laptops tend to be Picky about RAM used as they only really add Profiles for ones they use them self on the Laptop in the Factory, Samsung is there go to for RAM and 99% of the time they will just work fine as laptops are not like a desktop where they have to test a wide Range of RAM and add profiles for them as people may swap and change it alot depending what they can get as 99% of the time as its more complicated to do on a laptop people do not change it them self and just use them till its no longer good enougth.

usually MSI uses Samsung, Hynix and one more I cant Remember so usually Samsung is the Safest Bet if you need to Upgrade the RAM.
 
The other one is Micron for sure, these 3 are actually THE 3 companies providing memory chips for all others out there, who then package those chips on their PCBs, slap their own logo and sell them under their own brand. But in reality, Micron, Samsung and Hynix are THE only ones, at least for consumer-grade PC/laptop RAM modules.
 
In my old GT70 I have a mix of Samsung and A-Data with similar specs, works fine.
 
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