MSI MPG X570 Gaming Pro CARBON WIFI VRM on fire

bonemihai8154902d6

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Hello,

I recently bought an MSI MPG X570 Gaming Pro CARBON WIFI from an guy online brand new without receipt I got home I set up the motherboard with an AMD 5900x and when I check with my hand the VRM was very hot in idle, after 2 days of normal use the pc stopped to start, after 3-4 tries I got a flame from the one VRM and smoke and ......... that is it.
There is any chance I can fix this motherboard without receipt ?
 

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citay

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Difficult. One of the MOSFETs is completely burned out. I also see charring/deformation at the CPU_PWR headers, seems like the plastic has melted there slightly.
Well, you could try to find the MOSFET they used (QA3111N6N), maybe salvage one from another such board, and try to replace the broken one with it, but i don't have very high hopes.
Can you remove the heatsink for a damage survey? I'd like to see a photo of that.

It has to be said, the X570 Gaming Pro Carbon WiFi is probably not the ideal choice for a 5900X/5950X. MSI is one of a couple of brands that tried to cheap out a bit on some of their X570 boards by not using Powerstages for their VRM, but instead relied on conventional MOSFETs. In your case, Dual N-Channel MOSFETs, which are slightly more advanced, but still conventional MOSFET technology, which has considerable switching losses with high CPU power draw. On the plus side (for the manufacturer), they are much cheaper than Powerstages.

What is your PSU, and did you connect both CPU_PWR1 and 2? How do the cables look at the plugs? It looks like the plugs/connectors got very hot indeed.

Did you try to overclock the CPU in any way (which would not be recommended to begin with, because it kills the high efficiency that this CPU has)?

What is your case airflow and other components of your PC, including CPU cooler?
 
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Nichrome

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Have you inspected the board when you bought it? Maybe that was the reason it was sold?
 

bonemihai8154902d6

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Difficult. One of the MOSFETs is completely .......
Thank you for your answer.
PSU: Corsair HX1000
CPU cooler: bequiet dark rock pro 4
Case: test bench
CPU_PWR1 and 2 : Only CPU_PWR1 8pin
Remove the heatsink for a damage survey: If they have an NO answer for the warranty I will doit for sure.
cables look at the plugs? : After an simple check it looks ok but if you want I can make some better pictures.
Question - Now that I lost some money I want to go a little cheaper and stable do you think is a good ideea ASUS Tuf Gaming X570-Plus (Wi-Fi) ?
I will be happy to answer any question maybe it helps others to not "burn the house" :) .
 

citay

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Warranty will be difficult without proof of purchase, won't it?

Aha, test bench, so there will have been no airflow over the VRM section. The Dark Rock Pro 4 will also blow right past it, especially the upper VRM. The left VRM heatsink design is not very good, it has a plastic cover which turns it a bit into a "heat trap". With a 5900X, you need some airflow over the VRM, especially if you have a board that uses MOSFETs there, because of the higher switching losses.

Each time one of the MOSFETs switches on and off, you have energy turned into heat, more than with a single powerstage which combines the components for more efficiency. And the more power your CPU model draws, the hotter the VRM, of course. This all means that the board was designed to provide the X570 feature set for entry-level to mid-range CPUs, not top-end CPUs. Heck, when this board was released, the 5900X wasn't even out yet. That's why it's good to pair each CPU model with the appropriate board model.

Now, i don't know if your VRM was defective from the start, or what exactly happened there. But if we assume that this happened due to overheating or overloading or something like that, then you should look at boards with a more capable VRM. Surprisingly, the TUF you mentioned is at least slightly better in that it uses DrMOS powerstages (of the budget kind). But i would go for something like the MSI MAG X570S Torpedo Max / MAG X570S Tomahawk Max WIFI, two almost identical models except a few details, with 12+2 phases of 60A Smart Powerstages (of the nice kind). MSI really improved on their VRMs for the X570S board models over the older X570 ones.

Here you see a thermal image of that nice VRM under load with a 5900X (Prime95, default BIOS settings), stays very cool indeed:

 

bonemihai8154902d6

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Warranty will be difficult ....
I really appreciate your time and the help I receive.
I recently give up Intel and I start building this PC on AMD ( yes of course intel change the socket almost every year), it seems a little strange.
- You are right this board is before the 5900x but( there is always a but) they added a sticker right on top of the box Amd RYZEN 5000 READY.
- I did check before buying the website and guess what 5000 Ready. I will add some pictures.
Offtopic
- I always buy second hand products for a better value/performance and is the first time I got it wrong and is a brand new product.
- I learn a new lesson, now before buying something I will need to google check: Product X issues, Product X explosion :-D
- There is a part in human emotions were is difficult to accept the lose.
 

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Nichrome

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There is no denial the board can work with 5000 series. Question is, what actually went wrong. Was it faulty since it left the factory, or maybe "brand new" was a lie and the seller knew about this in some way. Or that it overheated. Bit of a guessing game.
I'd stand with what citay said. And you may want to consider adding a small fan near VRMs to ensure this doesn't happen again (assuming it was overheated).
 

bonemihai8154902d6

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There is no denial the board can work with 5000 series. Question is, what actually went wrong. Was it faulty since it left the factory, or maybe "brand new" was a lie and the seller knew about this in some way. Or that it overheated. Bit of a guessing game.
I'd stand with what citay said. And you may want to consider adding a small fan near VRMs to ensure this doesn't happen again (assuming it was overheated).
I will explain the par brand new:
- I did buy the product in person from the seller.
- I did open the product in front of the seller (everything sealed).
- I did check the board from dust, fingerprints or used slots etc it was brand new.
"seller knew about this in some way" - If the seller knew is a bad design from MSI and change his mind and sell it right after checking online or something like that here I can say there is a possibility.
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"And you may want to consider adding a small fan near VRMs"
I am a simple man I see heatsink I expect them to work (joke but sad joke)
- I did go for an almost High End motherboard not to overclock but to last longer.
- Let's take my scenario: I buy some "Premium parts" the first thing anyone will suggest it will be to not use the stock cooler(there is no stock cooler for this cpu in the box) or a cheap one.
- Sometimes I will like to think each company have a team of Testers who can easily eliminate this kind of situation.
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"There is no denial the board can work with 5000 series."
- If you check few google searches you will see.
- If you open the bios for this card you are blinded by OC everywhere, I am afraid to think of what will happen if I had time to play with that.
 

Nichrome

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In a chassis you will always have some sort of airflow. On a test bench the air didn't move even a little bit. But again, it's all just assumptions.
Also I did not suggest anything in regards to poor cooler. Then it'd be fried CPU rather than VRM.
Bad products, and even batches, happen from time to time. It's all electronic parts after all.
Check with MSI, without receipt it might be hard, but they sometimes honour to RMA based on the product serial number (which contains manufacturing date). >>How to contact MSI.<<
 

citay

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- I did open the product in front of the seller (everything sealed).
There are no seals on MSI motherboard boxes. Only the anti-ESD bag will have a piece of tape on it, and the stuff like SATA cables will be in bags. It wouldn't be too hard to make the motherboard bag look like it hasn't been opened before. But we will give the situation the benefit of the doubt and assume it was new.


- You are right this board is before the 5900x but( there is always a but) they added a sticker right on top of the box Amd RYZEN 5000 READY.
That is purely about BIOS support (new enough BIOS with proper AGESA microcode update is installed).
They put that kind of sticker even on a 50 EUR/USD board such as this:



Would you put a 5900X on this board? No? Why not, it's "RYZEN 5000 READY"?

You see what i'm getting to here: BIOS support doesn't equal the board being adequate for a high-end CPU, not one bit. And this is all they mean with those stickers: BIOS support.
I have talked about it here a bit more.


I am a simple man I see heatsink I expect them to work (joke but sad joke)
Heatsinks depend on airflow. Otherwise, they buffer heat for a short while until they are fully heated up and at their maximum heat removal capacity from natural convection. If you keep pushing the VRM with continuous full CPU load from a powerful CPU model, it might end up overheating even with a heatsink. Although, normally i would not expect a MOSFET to blow. So this is kind of odd still.


- I did go for an almost High End motherboard not to overclock but to last longer.
What you have is a upper mainstream model. It has some nice components on it like the better audio chip and so on, but it's far from high end where it counts (with a high-end CPU): The VRM.
Powerstages, be it the simpler DrMOS or the more advanced Smart Powerstages, are one of the more expensive components on a mainboard, which can cost upwards of US$10 each for high-quality ones (and you need a bunch). So naturally that's one major point for the manufacturer to save money on when designing the budget and mainstream boards. A simple MOSFET can cost just a dollar or less, with the thousands they order. And for most CPUs, low-end to mid-range, MOSFETs will do the job no problem.

Whenever Intel or AMD bring out more powerful CPUs, you can see the board makers scramble to come up with cost-effective VRM solutions. On the low-end boards such as A520 and small B550 boards, they will always stick with MOSFETs, the buyer doesn't accept higher prices there. So they will design those boards clearly for low-end CPUs, when people want to build a system on a tight budget. On the mid-range boards, it really depends. Can they hit a certain price point? Do they think MOSFETs are still sufficient if they add enough of them to share the load between them?

A telling example on Intel was the switch from Z390 + 9th gen CPUs to Z490 + 10th gen CPUs to Z590 + 11th gen CPUs. Each time the new CPU generation could draw much more power.

I had a MSI MEG Z390 ACE and it still used MOSFETs. At that time, it was a high-end model, because the CPUs didn't nearly need this much power yet. It used 12x 4C029N + 12x 4C024N MOSFETs.
But observe the temperatures with 225W CPU load (something a 5900X could achieve too):




As i said, this was a high-end board (only the GODLIKE was above it), but the 300-series boards only had to deal with one very powerful CPU, the 9900K (and later the KS). And it wasn't as thirsty as the later top-end CPUs. So this was the last time they got away with this.

With the Core i-10000 CPUs, there were several more CPU models that were quite thirsty. Not to mention the Core i-11000, which set new records in power draw. This is why, for the Z490 boards, only the cheapest models kept the seperate MOSFET solution, and for the Z590 boards, there wasn't a single model from any brand (!) still using the MOSFET solution.

With Z490, apart from Biostar, only three MSI Z490 models were still using the cheaper seperate Lo- and Hi-MOSFETs instead of fully integrated powerstages:

Notably, for the Z590 mainboards, all manufacturers exclusive use Powerstages for the VRM of all boards. This means that the Rocket Lake CPUs are demanding in regards to power draw.

Similarly, with the first X570 boards, MSI kept using MOSFETs even on the better mid-range boards because they could just about get away with it. On the newer X570S they had to improve on that.
 

bonemihai8154902d6

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There are no seals on MSI motherboard boxes ......
On cardboard box there is a round clear sticker, if you open that sticker you will never put the same one back it will have bubbles and it will not be clear (EUROPE).
On the motherboard itself you are right there is that plastic bag and an small seal made of paper. Yes everything can be resealed those days.
From the seller perspective - How you make an motherboard to work for 2 days and then burn ?
I will still like to believe the seller didn't cheat me on purpose:
- I did go to his home to buy the product.
- He still answer the phone.
- I can't make him responsible from what I believe is a poor design from MSI.
In this moment I wait an answer from MSI if there is the possibility to replace it on warranty, if I get a NO I will disassembly the heatsink and I will upload pictures.
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Heatsinks depend on airflow...
- I can agree on that. If you look around at other boards from the same budget range you can see the VRM doesn't reach 110C(from what I research on google). I still think is a poor design from MSI and also a bad choice from my side(less knowledge = poor choices).
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Regarding bios.
- I did update this board to the last bios firmware, from the first day.
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Regarding the new board:
- I will try to avoid for a period of time MSI, I had a bad experience there are some mistakes from my side but still ......
Now I do some research on GIGABYTE X570S AORUS PRO AX if you have any opinion that will for sure help me, I will also use the knowledge I did receive from this tread and I will setup in the case a fan closer to the MOSFET's.
Gigabyte have some powerful claims "Ultra Durable" ....
1660989798247.png

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I will add some pictures with all the parts I have used for this build if it helps. There is also an Samsung 980 Pro NVME but I don't think that is relevant to the power draw.
- I will open the board and make pictures
- If I have some extra time I will try to go with the board at a shop to fix it and come with maybe with a full diagnostic of what actually happened there ( I have to be lucky with the repair shops).
 

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citay

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On cardboard box there is a round clear sticker, if you open that sticker you will never put the same one back it will have bubbles and it will not be clear (EUROPE).
I can't confirm this. I have had numerous MSI mainboards in the past, even once from MSI directly, and there was never a seal on the cardboard box itself. Also read here.
Sometimes not even the antistatic bag has a seal, read here and below.

Gigabyte have some powerful claims "Ultra Durable" ....
They talked about that 10, 15 years ago already when all there was available were MOSFETs, so... But they seem to be using DrMOS powerstages. You want powerstages for a 5900X, simple MOSFETs are not ideal for such a CPU. So the Gigabyte is certainly a nice board, if a bit overpriced, because the MAG X570S Tomahawk Max WIFI has better Smart Powerstages for a lower price. I know you are probably put off a bit by MSI now, but problems/failures can happen with any manufacturer.

Yes, the component choices on your original board from MSI were not ideal (at least not for your use case, powerful CPU and no VRM airflow), but even then it shouldn't have caused a MOSFET to blow, so i believe there was probably some hidden fault in the component from the very start. This can always happen, you can buy a brand new car and some days later the motor dies.

As i said, i will assume the seller's innocence. What you should try to do now, get him to help you out. He should have proof of purchase, so ideally, he should try to RMA the board for your sake.
MSI will be happy to investigate the old board about the cause of it, he should get a new board back, which he then can give to you, and you can sell it, for example. If he still answers the phone and everything, instead of you begging for an RMA at MSI, he could easily get a normal RMA with his proof of purchase.
 

Nichrome

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I am in Europe (UK), and not a single MSI board I ever bought had any kind of seal. Only on the plastic itself the board was wrapped in. So unless it was the shop's specific seal which should have a name on it, it's not possible it was sealed by MSI.
 

bonemihai8154902d6

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I am in Europe (UK), and not a single .....
I can't confirm this .....
I finaly decided to go with Gigabyte x570s Aorus Master. From my tests with this board VRM reach maximum of 42C at room temperature 28 C, Cinebench. Maybe is not the best board I can get
with this budget but for sure I love the backplate from it.
Back to the sticker : - I got this board from the shop and guess what, you are right, no sticker. Is something new for my country.
( Please ignore the uglyest ever bed sheets. Not my choice. There are some compromises in life :D )
1661333991540.jpg

1661332609547.jpg


Here is the sticker I am talking about, they use it for most of the products from kitchen electronics to computer parts.

1661333140443.png

Now that I got an NO from MSI i can show you what happened under the heatsink.

1661332583154.jpg

From other side
1661332583151.jpg

Thermalpad took a big damage.

1661332583142.jpg


From the back of the VRM

1661332583147.jpg
 

citay

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Yeah, that would be difficult to repair. Like is said, you can try to have the original owner RMA it, he shouldn't get categorically denied. Even removing the heatsink shouldn't void the warranty, i mean, it's clear that it was still mounted while the MOSFET failed spectacularly. Or you could try to sell the broken board, some people like to salvage parts off such boards.

The sticker on the MSI box seems "aftermarket". A sticker or a seal makes a product look brand new and it might fetch a higher price. Or maybe some store likes to add them as additional protection to see if the buyer opened a product when they return it for some reason. As i said, i don't want to suggest any foul play.

Thanks for the photos, that blown MOSFET is an impressive sight.
 

bonemihai8154902d6

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Yeah, that would be difficult to repair. Like is said, you can try to have the original owner RMA......
If I had this luxury there will be no post in this form. Yup it will go straight to the second hand market as broken then I will have a smaller lose.
I will dedicate some time for some reviews on our shops and that is it.
I keep my promise with the photos. Thank you for all the valuable information.
 

Alan J T

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if bord had not been faulty it should have had decent temp for the VRM
15 min test with AIDA64 pulling 180 watt on the CPU
I have the MSI X570S Tomahawk using shown setting on the 5900X
Get same kind of temps with the B550 Mortar Wifi I have
1661344504955.png
 
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