MSI Tomahawk B650

[nathanhawthorne1156402de]

Morning Folks.

Recently Upgraded to the Am5 Platform.. Little bit of history below.

I started off with a build

Motherboard - TUF B650 Plus Wifi
CPU - Ryzen 5 7600X
Ram - Kingston Fury Beast 16GB 2 x8
GPU - RX 6800 XT
PSu - Thermaltake GF1 750W

I had constant BSOD's, Game Crashes and they all pointed to Memory related issues, this was after running Memtest a few times (Hardware Issues) it would mention.
So got an RMA on the RAM and got the same make/model but new sticks sent. The issues didn't go away, So sent the Motherboard back and purchased a MSI Tomahawk B650 instead.

No issues were present to start with, but after a few days, I would get BSOD, Game Crashes, same as before. So running Memtest again, it had shown issues with the same RAM sticks. So sent it away for a refund, and purchased 32GB Corsair Vengeance 5600MT/s 36-36-36-76 1.25.

So far I've had no issues what so ever, BUT I am unable to enable ANY XMP profile. If I enable the profile, The motherboard will go through all the LED's Red, Yellow, White, Green, Off, then hang. I've been told that memory training happens after any changes, and that this should take a few minutes up to 10. So far I've left it over 40 minutes with nothing on screen, no POST, but all the fans spinning at a normal speed.

Removed the GPU to rule that out and still the same issue with the iGPU. Each time I have to remove the Battery and re-install. This happened on the BIOS 7D75v11 and the latest
7D75v131(Beta version)

I cant think of ANY reason to blame the RAM as this is now the 3rd Set, and 2nd Motherboard. Would any CPU issues cause the XMP profile not to work?

Anyone with the same specs, having the same sort of issues,

 

[citay]

It's certainly possible, as the CPU houses the IMC, the integrated memory controller. The following factors are more or less all a part of the memory system and affect if the RAM can run at a certain speed:

1) The mainboard model (PCB layer count, PCB trace optimization, RAM slot topology and slot count, component selection, RAM VRM etc.)
2) The mainboard's BIOS optimizations and the BIOS settings
3) Your CPU's integrated memory controller (IMC), quality depends on the individual CPU (silicon lottery), and in rare cases you can have a "dud"
4) The properties of the RAM modules.

So the RAM is just one piece of the puzzle in the memory system.
You basically have been through factors 1), 2) and 4), by using a board and RAM from different brands. So it only makes sense to also consider the possibility of factor 3) now.
Of course that would be another replacement part where you can't truly be sure that all the problems stem from there. It would've been interesting to try the new Corsair RAM on the ASUS board(s)...

 

[nathanhawthorne1156402de]

Much appreciated for the reply.

The CPU is probably the only part I cannot replace as it was purchased privately, weird the box was in Chinese, and when asking the seller he had mentioned he purchased 4 from China. In 25 years of Working with PC's building PC's I've never came across a Dud CPU, I do hear stories from folks etc, but never experienced it personally, apparently a fairly rare thing. I am planning to upgrade to X3D next month anyway so when i do I can finally rule out the CPU.

Yes, I would like to have checked the Corsair RAM in the TUF, when I RMA'd the board, AWD-IT said they would test the board, and provide a refund, they have given me a refund, but no results from the Board itself. So cannot even comment on the condition of that board.

I might have to find a friendly person on the forums from the UK that I could send the CPU to test as I don't know anyone else on AM5 yet.

Just out of curiosity, I can run benchmarks all day long on this machine with the potentially DUD CPU, Wouldn't it have flagged up or crashed in say

Cinebench
Prime95
3dMark

If there was a problem with the CPU? I have done many many benchmarks and they have all ran just fine. So far touch wood, all gaming is Fine too. Unfortunately my benchmarking things and making sure they work, don't apply to the XMP profile not POSTing

 

[citay]

I only hear about dud CPUs on this forum too, never personally had one. Except once, i had bought a used Celeron CPU and a used cheap board (someone wanted me to build them a very cheap PC), one memory channel wasn't working, and i thought it was the board. Since it was a cheap office PC, he could use it in single-channel mode. But in hindsight, it might just as well have been the CPU instead of the board there.

Stress tests at safe JEDEC speeds of DDR5-4800 don't mean too much, as it's almost running in "limp mode", so the likelihood of errors is low. BTW i wouldn't bunch Prime95 in the same category as CB or 3DMark. The former is a stress test, the latter are benchmarks. Benchmarks can crash too, but they are not constantly verifying the computational results like a proper stress test. If you want some more stress tests, check in my RAM thread under 5). For example Linpack Xtreme is a good one.

What happens if you manually raise DRAM Frequency to, say, DDR5-5200?

 

[nathanhawthorne1156402de]

Seen the thread under your Sig already had it open and looking through it.

If I choose anything else other than 4800 it won' POST, If I manually enter my RAM Timings 40-40-40-77 its fine, If I manually enter say expo settings, or the settings listed on the RAM 36-36-36-76 it wont post. Voltage for Auto is 1.1 but I've manually kept it at 1.250 just to see if that sorts any stability issues.

 

[irusanov]

Could be the CPU.

It's just a speculation, but I bought another 7950X in the search of a better one and it looks horrible. Absolutely not stable on default, 2nd CCD seems not up to the task. I need to add positive voltage offset, set a fixed clock, disable boost or disable 2nd CCD completely to make it somewhat stable.

The issue gets even worse with water cooling and my assumption is the lower temperature allows it to boost higher, which the 2nd CCD can't handle. Maybe the V/F curve is messed, I don't know, but it can't even load Windows if water temp is lower than 26-27 degrees (Celsius). Max fixed clock difference between both CCDs is 275MHz!

I'm going to try RMA it with AMD, this isn't normal. My first CPU does not have such issues - same motherboard, bios, RAM and cooling.

 

[nathanhawthorne1156402de]

Just a quick update,
Ended up being an issue with the processor, unsure if it was because the CPU was made for the Chinese market, or if they do something to em for the Chinese, but replacing the 7600x with another one from the UK fixed the issue

 

[Alan J T]

Just a quick update,
Ended up being an issue with the processor, unsure if it was because the CPU was made for the Chinese market, or if they do something to em for the Chinese, but replacing the 7600x with another one from the UK fixed the issue

Yep I'm starting to suspect it is a CPU problem for quite a few users
AMD may have dropped the Pass / Fail Specification on Retail CPU a bit too low so CPUs that would have gotten a fail are getting a pass.


It just seems odd that most reviewers who get a CPU that has been Validated and Selected by AMD and sent to them by AMD seem to have few if any problems.

Most reviewers do not receive a Retail CPU for Testing and Benchmarking by AMD or Intel. But a Pre-production Sample that is most likely selected with very good Specifications.

 

[nathanhawthorne1156402de]

It was a very weird one indeed, after 2 Motherboards, and 3 sets of RAM, kinda knew it was CPU, but getting a duff CPU is rare as hens teeth, you might be right about the pass/fail, I have noticed a few users with the 7600x having SIMILAR issues to me. But since the CPU technically works fine, some users just might not notice