Optimal settings Z790 Tomahawk Wifi Max i9 14900k

[MigraineFilms]

Hi all, as I was filling other threads with questions, here is a dedicated thread to my question.

Can you help me getting my i9 under control, it keeps thermally throttling even under very low power settings, and I dont fully grasp the undervolt settings.

My system:
i9 14900k
MAG Z790 Tomahawk Wifi max
Deepcool LT720 AIO
Contact Frame
DDR5 Trident Z 6400
Samsung 990 Pro
RTX 4080 Super
Corsair Shift RM1000x

So far I've done this:

Lowered PL1 and PL2 to 175 watts
Lite Load 9 (AUTO)
Voltage adaptive/offset -0.125 (screenshots still say -0.110, changed this, still throttles)

It can run for hours perfectly fine, benchmarks all doing great, cinebench R23 multiple runs, Prime95 30 minutes heat/stress test and then when I take a screenshot, HWiNFO says its thermally throttling without showing any high temperatures. HWiNFO also refreshes slowly, even on 1000ms, since the latest update.

Any advice is much appreciated

P.S: I do not experience any instability in the past 6 months I owned this computer, besides a sporadic lag in the audio, there are no crashes, app hangs, game failures, BSOD's or any of that kind.

Edit: All the information is a bit overwhelming and I'm feeling I'm getting lost in all the numbers a bit

 

[MigraineFilms]

If you lower your E-core ratio 1 or 2 ticks, you’ll get your peak VIDs down. Your P-Cores might behave better. The change isn’t likely to be dramatic, though. Just something I spotted. E-cores 19 - 23 have the highest VIDs, which impacts the whole CPU.

done that, still throttles, E-Core VID stays at 1,260

I'll try reapplying thermal paste. that said, its also 25 degrees celsius in my room, it might be those 2 or 3 degrees differences in ambient that keeps the CPU cooler

 

[FlyingScot]

E-core VID average looks okay, so lowering E-Core may not have a noticeable effect.
Water temperature could account for changes in behavior from day-to-day.
CEP might bring down voltages a wee bit.
Also, something has to throttle the behavior. It’s nearly always going to be either Thermal or Power. If you want the latter then I guess you could reduce the PL2 slightly or fix the max P-core ratios so they are slightly lower.

 

[FlyingScot]

A 13C diff between P-core 1 and 7 is quite something. Although, I know people say to expect 10C spread as normal for RPL CPUs. Anyone on the forum care to check their temp spread for comparison to MigraineFilm?

 

[MigraineFilms]

A 13C diff between P-core 1 and 7 is quite something. Although, I know people say to expect 10C spread as normal for RPL CPUs. Anyone on the forum care to check their temp spread for comparison to MigraineFilm?

Decided not to repaste, because if that was the issue, ALL the cores would be hot

 

[FlyingScot]

Decided not to repaste, because if that was the issue, ALL the cores would be hot

You really have a good setup. Your voltages look healthy. I’d be inclined to just tweak the power or core-ratios a little (to bring down temps a smidgen) and then call it a day. I’d tune for better gaming volts/temps, etc. and be a little less concerned about all-core. You can always lower PL1 to tame the behavior even more.

 

[MigraineFilms]

You really have a good setup. Your voltages look healthy. I’d be inclined to just tweak the power or core-ratios a little (to bring down temps a smidgen) and then call it a day. I’d tuned for better gaming volts/temps, etc. and be a little less concerned about all-core. You can always lower PL1 to tame the behavior even more.

So, here's my new thought:
P core 7 (8) is dead center in the processor, if you look at the images from intel, so its surrounded by all other cores. 0 (1) is on the edge of the processor. Thats why 7 (8) is the hottest and 0 (1) is the coolest.

When I last tested, the ambient temps were about 3 to 4 degrees cooler, and so was my CPU. The temperatures should drop next week, with about 10 degrees. I will test with lower ambient temperatures then.

Gaming is fine, 3 hours of baldurs gate was 60 degrees, and that ones is intensive on the CPU. OCCT and Prime95 are fine too, its just the video rendering, not even the editing.
Ill run this thing in the ground and when it eventually dies I will bury it in an unmarked grave kn the side of the road. Ill just use it as a space heater.

Also: another topic about an i7 14700k mentioned the same issue, one core throttling

 

[Arctucas]

A 13C diff between P-core 1 and 7 is quite something. Although, I know people say to expect 10C spread as normal for RPL CPUs. Anyone on the forum care to check their temp spread for comparison to MigraineFilm?

I got 14°C difference between Core 1 (41°) and Cores 4 and 7 (28°) , and that is delidded and direct die.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?attachments/hwinfo-7-24-24-2-jpg.190748/

I will try it with the A/C on it tonight.

 

[Arctucas]

So, here's my new thought:
P core 7 (8) is dead center in the processor, if you look at the images from intel, so its surrounded by all other cores. 0 (1) is on the edge of the processor. Thats why 7 (8) is the hottest and 0 (1) is the coolest.

When I last tested, the ambient temps were about 3 to 4 degrees cooler, and so was my CPU. The temperatures should drop next week, with about 10 degrees. I will test with lower ambient temperatures then.

Gaming is fine, 3 hours of baldurs gate was 60 degrees, and that ones is intensive on the CPU. OCCT and Prime95 are fine too, its just the video rendering, not even the editing.
Ill run this thing in the ground and when it eventually dies I will bury it in an unmarked grave kn the side of the road. Ill just use it as a space heater.

Also: another topic about an i7 14700k mentioned the same issue, one core throttling

Off topic, but speaking of BG3, are you having any crash to desktop issues?

Mine started about 12 hours into Act 3, and I cannot figure out how to fix.

 

[MigraineFilms]

Off topic, but speaking of BG3, are you having any crash to desktop issues?

Mine started about 12 hours into Act 3, and I cannot figure out how to fix.

No instability of any kind, but Vulkan is more stable

 

[Arctucas]

No instability of any kind, but Vulkan is more stable

How many hours would you say you have in the game? Are you in Act 3?

I have a little more than 100, and had no issues for the first 90 or so.

Vulkan or DX11 makes no difference.

 

[MigraineFilms]

How many hours would you say you have in the game? Are you in Act 3?

I have a little more than 100, and had no issues for the first 90 or so.

139 hours, played it all the way through twice, nearing act 3 now. It crashed before but that got resolved a few patches ago. Try to verify game cache and try running vulkan if you are on DX11

 

[Arctucas]

139 hours, played it all the way through twice, nearing act 3 now. It crashed before but that got resolved a few patches ago. Try to verify game cache and try running vulkan if you are on DX11

I had tried about every 'fix' I found on the Internet. Tried installing the latest patch, but keep getting out of string range, and out of stack range. The game worked fine for over a year (I do not really play it that often), and then it suddenly started crashing. apparently, it happens to others as well.

Just about to give up on it.

 

[FlyingScot]

I had tried about every 'fix' I found on the Internet. Tried installing the latest patch, but keep getting out of string range, and out of stack range. The game worked fine for over a year (I do not really play it that often), and then it suddenly started crashing. apparently, it happens to others as well.

Just about to give up on it.

You should just move on to the new Star Wars game. It’s not just a AAA game…it’s a AAAA game!

 

[MigraineFilms]

I had tried about every 'fix' I found on the Internet. Tried installing the latest patch, but keep getting out of string range, and out of stack range. The game worked fine for over a year (I do not really play it that often), and then it suddenly started crashing. apparently, it happens to others as well.

Just about to give up on it.

Those errors are not the raptor lake instability crashes I believe. Shame its bugging out at the end of the game, its so good!

If I understood your last post correcty, uneven temperatures are normal? In the end, it still has a general heat spot of course.

Its ALWAYS p core 7 too, then 4 and 5 (the boost cores).
Also, its such a short spike, at 25 degrees room temperature. Curious to what it does when it goes back to 19 degrees celsius room temp, its easier for the AIO radiator to dissipate heat, which might make quite the difference due to radiator size.

My dad asked a good question: what about it bothers me?
In the end, its just that it throttles for a microsecond. Its at 95 degrees, not the 115 it could theoretically take. It doesnt damage the cpu, it doesnt lose performance and it only happens during renders (or benchmarks) which are at most an hour every few months.

 

[Arctucas]

Those errors are not the raptor lake instability crashes I believe. Shame its bugging out at the end of the game, its so good!

If I understood your last post correcty, uneven temperatures are normal? In the end, it still has a general heat spot of course.

Its ALWAYS p core 7 too, then 4 and 5 (the boost cores).
Also, its such a short spike, at 25 degrees room temperature. Curious to what it does when it goes back to 19 degrees celsius room temp, its easier for the AIO radiator to dissipate heat, which might make quite the difference due to radiator size.

My dad asked a good question: what about it bothers me?
In the end, its just that it throttles for a microsecond. Its at 95 degrees, not the 115 it could theoretically take. It doesnt damage the cpu, it doesnt lose performance and it only happens during renders (or benchmarks) which are at most an hour every few months.

Yes, did not believe it was the instability or degradation thing, just a bugged game. I found several articles about, and how to fix it. Unfortunately, nothing has worked, and now I cannot even reinstall for some reason. I have always been a fan of Larian (played all the Divinity series), but BG3 has become a disappointment, not because of the story or gameplay, but the apparently bad coding.

Not sure about 'normal', but I have never seen an Intel processor (except maybe a two-core Pentium) where all the cores were the same, and usually there is one that is an outlier.

Actually, my Core 1 was the hottest, 4 and 7 the coolest, opposite of yours.

I need to revisit that tonight.

 

[MigraineFilms]

I have read a few posts, quickly, about 10th gen and up. There always seems to be one core about 10 degrees or more hotter. This is due to workload allocation, heat soaking and just generally being in the center of the cpu.

Im pretty done with Intel tbh, I would much rather have the what, 7950x3d double d dingledonger from AMD, that would have just 10% less performance but way less headache

 

[FlyingScot]

Those errors are not the raptor lake instability crashes I believe. Shame its bugging out at the end of the game, its so good!

If I understood your last post correcty, uneven temperatures are normal? In the end, it still has a general heat spot of course.

Its ALWAYS p core 7 too, then 4 and 5 (the boost cores).
Also, its such a short spike, at 25 degrees room temperature. Curious to what it does when it goes back to 19 degrees celsius room temp, its easier for the AIO radiator to dissipate heat, which might make quite the difference due to radiator size.

My dad asked a good question: what about it bothers me?
In the end, its just that it throttles for a microsecond. Its at 95 degrees, not the 115 it could theoretically take. It doesnt damage the cpu, it doesnt lose performance and it only happens during renders (or benchmarks) which are at most an hour every few months.

The only thing I have come across to explain this strange behavior is the recent comment by BuildZoid about how he believes that something inherently part of this architecture is causing momentary spikes in current above IccMax (and way too quick for HWINFO to catch). I’m not sure how he arrived at that conclusion, but he‘s mentioned it a couple of times. If you combine that comment with the fact that Intel VID requests can happen every 0.1ms (10x quicker than AMD CPUs) then there is just so much going on inside the CPU that we’ll never be able to track from the outside. All I can think of is that the temperature spikes for just a millisecond and no cooling approach can stop it.

 

[MigraineFilms]

I've checked during a render, and it seems that P-core 7 is also the preferred core to use from the CPU

its the only core that gets constantly used for 98%, the rest always varies.
I think its really not that big of a deal, that short throttle spike, but it is weird however.

 

[FlyingScot]

You look like you’re real close to the final step of tuning a Windows+Intel system.
The final step…is…to…uninstall…HWinfo64. And never look back.
You will find the ignorance blissful…I promise you!

 

[Arctucas]

Rechecked the Δ of the P-cores, at idle and running 10 minute CB R23.

Idle was 2°C, at end of 10 minute CB R23 was 6°C.

Hope that helps.