Owners of 13th/14th Gen Raptor Lake CPUs - Media Reports of serious stability issues

[FlyingScot]

This information is being offered with the intention of keeping owners of these CPUs informed, i.e. knowledge is power. Perhaps if enough people become aware of this situation (and the information provided is indeed accurate) then maybe Intel will offer affected users alternative remedies other than the usual warranty replacement process.

Owners of 13th/14th gen i9’s are reporting what looks like rapid degradation over a period of months that leads to sudden instability. Users are then forced to increase voltage and/or drop boost frequencies to stabilize their systems. In some cases, this problem resurfaces and requires the same approach to be repeated. Another major cause of concern raised in the video, and in user comments, is the stability of the Integrated Memory Control (IMC) and the relationship to DDR5 frequencies above 4200. Random instability due to IMC issues, and perhaps degradation of the IMC, cannot be ruled out. This is clearly a story that is still developing. Owners of i9 CPUs, and indeed all Raptor Lake CPUs, should stay tuned. Follow up videos on this story are promised by Steve at Gamers Nexus.

What’s most alarming about this situation is the fact that even users who took every preventative safety measure, i.e. not overclocking, low PL1/PL2, good cooling, even undervolting, etc., are still reporting instability after just a few months of usage, presumably from what could be degradation. And, judging from user comments, these issues may not just be limited to the i9's.

I do not own one of these chips, but I have been following this story with great interest.

UPDATE 1: For folks who want a quick way to see where things stand at the moment, I suggest you start reading this thread from here. In the first post by forum member, CiTay, you will find several relevant links of importance. I will endeavour to keep adding to this shortcut list as events develop.

UPDATE 2: By now, many of you will be aware that Intel and the motherboard manufacturers have collaborated to release new BIOS code to address the Raptor Lake instability and degradation issues. Should you choose to update to the latest BIOS (with microcode 0x129) and then experience thermal and/or performance issues, you may find this new guide helpful in addressing those concerns.

UPDATE 3: [Sep 26, 2024] Intel and the motherboard manufacturers have collaborated to release new BIOS code (0x12B) to address the Raptor Lake instability and degradation issues. For more information, jump to the following post in this thread.

ADDITION 1: Don't forget to stop by our very own online Raptor Lake Survey, where you can see how others have configured their Raptor Lake systems to balance performance and stability, and to reduce the risk of degradation. You can check it out here.

UPDATE 4: [May 1, 2025]: Intel releases 0x12F microcode, which includes a fix for voltage management issues for PCs that are left powered on for days on end, with long periods of idle. See more information here.

 

[MigraineFilms]

I am so hoping that my chip is okay because I am so hesitant with getting the update because of how many people have to go into their bios settings and change voltage settings and all that because the update sets them too high. I have heard there is another update coming that is "supposed" to be the actual fix. I am so hoping that it proves to be the one and safe because I need some peace of mind for this; this whole mess is causing me massive anxiety attacks.

Setting up the proper settings in the BIOS is relatively easy, with a lot of people willing to help you out on the forum.

Also, Citay made a very clear and easy to follow guide if you feel like trying it.

You wont have to manually undervolt, its just one setting that you have to change back.

Your anxiety is understandable, I had that too. Dont let it win, its just a piece of hardware. Try to confront it, changing those settings can do zero harm to the CPU but it can boost your self confidence

 

[FlyingScot]

My online Raptor Lake Survey is now LIVE for anyone who would like to submit their system settings/R23 scores. Thanks!
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?...tings-survey-and-spreadsheet-database.402925/

 

[PJohn_VDRN]

Hello,

Yesterday, I was playing Satisfactory when suddenly when opening the inventory in the game, I had a crash. A freeze, the image remains blocked and the audio loops "brrrrrrr". Impossible to return to the Windows desktop so I restart the computer with a long press. And there, impossible to start.
The motherboard indicates a DRAM failure (yellow LED) during the POST.
I can't even access the BIOS anymore. So I can't check the settings. I tried everything.
-Clear the CMOS, remove the battery, JBAT1 ...
-Flash bios with old versions (vH8).
-1 DIMM, then the other.
-No GPU, no peripherals.
-Control of PSU Voltage ok.
All I have to do now is test my RAM on another config or test a new DIMM on my config. For the moment I don't know which peripheral is faulty. CPU? PSU? DRAM? MB?

Here is the story that precedes this tragic event:
10 days ago, I wanted to play Satisfactory. But I had a video memory allocation error preventing the game from starting.
I read on the steam forum that the BIOS had to be updated. So I updated the BIOS to version 7D91vHD and indeed, the game works.
Everything worked well for 1 week, I played 8-hour sessions on the game. No crashes. Only a small freeze when I first opened the inventory in the game.

Before that, 9 months ago, I had BSOD problems and software crashes on Star Citizen. Likewise, these crashes occurred when a large amount of data was loaded by the game (LOD - Distance - dynamic loading). It was not systematic. In the case of star citizen, it was often when arriving near a large city. With a lot of entities to load.
I installed Intel Xtrem Tuning Utility to lower the P-Core from 57 to 55 and I haven't had any more problems on Star Citizen.

I built my config 11 months ago:
OS: Windows 11
MB: MSI MAG Tomahawk Z790 Wifi
CPU: Intel i9 14900k
DRAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR5 2*16Gb 5200MHz
GPU: Nvidia RTX 3060 Ventus
PSU: Corsair RM850e
Cooling: Corsair H150i

I checked the compatibility and everything seems OK. (Let me know if you see anything wrong)

I think there is a clock problem between, the intel, the motherboard, the DDR5 memory and the games that dynamically load many entities.

I wonder if the 5200MHz DRAM is a problem in case the P-Cores reach their max turbo frequency at 5600Mhz.
Should I manually limit the CPU max frequency from the BIOS?

Do you think this could be the cause of my problem? Do you think my RAM dead or CPU ? or MB ? or all ?
Should i use 5600MHz DDR5 so i can use default setting in bios ?

THX !

 

[citay]

Any of the first three EZ Debug LEDs staying on, and you won't get into the BIOS, nor will you see a picture. The problem has to be solved first. Your crashes could definitely be CPU-related, maybe a sign of CPU degradation or something else. The 14900K is a monster CPU in general, using brute force to achieve its performance (if cooling permits). However, the sudden DRAM LED after a nasty crash, that is not something usually attributed to a CPU degradation issue, at least it's far from common. So i would suggest that you open a new thread and post everything there again, so we can troubleshoot your seemingly more individual problem.

 

[FlyingScot]

So the rumors were true. Another microcode update incoming…
Out with 0x129 and in with 0x12B. Hopefully, this will be the final fix.

Intel Isolates "Raptor Lake" Vmin Shift Instability Root Cause, New Microcode Update Coming

Back in August, Intel started shipping its 0x129 microcode update for 13/14th generation "Raptor Lake" and "Raptor Lake Refresh" processors. This update fixed incorrect voltage requests to the processor that are causing elevated operating voltage. Intel's analysis showed that the root cause of...

www.techpowerup.com

P.S. Get ready for CiTay’s guide #3: ‘How to fix high temps with 0x12B’

 

[MigraineFilms]

So the rumors were true. Another microcode update incoming…
Out with 0x129 and in with 0x12B. Hopefully, this will be the final fix.

Intel Isolates "Raptor Lake" Vmin Shift Instability Root Cause, New Microcode Update Coming

Back in August, Intel started shipping its 0x129 microcode update for 13/14th generation "Raptor Lake" and "Raptor Lake Refresh" processors. This update fixed incorrect voltage requests to the processor that are causing elevated operating voltage. Intel's analysis showed that the root cause of...

www.techpowerup.com

P.S. Get ready for CiTay’s guide #3: ‘How to fix high temps with 0x12B’

It states that it also happens with increased motherboard power delivery.

Would it be wise for raptor lake users to disable IA CEP and default back to LLC Auto and DC 110, while undervolting with AC?

 

[charonme]

Get ready for CiTay’s guide #3: ‘How to fix high temps with 0x12B

well it's not the microcode update that changes the temps and performance, it's the change in the "auto" bios settings that came with the bios update from the motherboard manufacturer. That's why it's more reliable to have all those important settings tuned manually (especially if you're using an unlocked K cpu).

 

[FlyingScot]

well it's not the microcode update that changes the temps and performance, it's the change in the "auto" bios settings that came with the bios update from the motherboard manufacturer. That's why it's more reliable to have all those important settings tuned manually (especially if you're using an unlocked K cpu).

Of course. You’re absolutely correct. It‘s really just the recent tweaks and twiddles that motherboard vendors did that started us down the thermal rabbit hole, isn’t it? I just automatically associate the two these days, quite wrongly of course. Anyway, I’m sure this new microcode will be a return to the good old days when we didn’t even notice anything different after an update. Thanks for straightening me out.

 

[FlyingScot]

It states that it also happens with increased motherboard power delivery.

Would it be wise for raptor lake users to disable IA CEP and default back to LLC Auto and DC 110, while undervolting with AC?

I paused when I read that part of their statement, too. And then the more I thought about it, the more I think Intel is still referring to a time when motherboard vendors defaulted to unlimited power levels out of the box. Remember, you have set your power levels based upon Intel’s recent guidance, which hasn’t changed. I can’t see how this new microcode will do anything but assist what you have already done. It might even get rid of those strange spikes you see in thermals, power, etc.

I’m not sure what “a clock tree circuit in the IA core” is referring to, but it sounds more like it’s core frequency related than voltage related. Perhaps, just like with the eTVB bug, their logic was boosting frequencies even when thermals were on the high side. That‘s my best guess.

 

[FlyingScot]

I paused when I read that part of their statement, too. And then the more I thought about it, the more I think Intel is still referring to a time when motherboard vendors defaulted to unlimited power levels out of the box. Remember, you have set your power levels based upon Intel’s recent guidance, which hasn’t changed. I can’t see how this new microcode will do anything but assist what you have already done. It might even get rid of those strange spikes you see in thermals, power, etc.

I’m not sure what “a clock tree circuit in the IA core” is referring to, but it sounds more like it’s core frequency related than voltage related. Perhaps, just like with the eTVB bug, their logic was boosting frequencies even when thermals were on the high side. That‘s my best guess.

Replying to my own reply, here. But this media report adds a little more detail, I think. Now I’m confused. What exactly will the new microcode aim to do? The issue of degradation was always known. So what difference does it make what part of the CPU wears out first? The issue of high voltages was supposed to be fixed with the 0x129 1.55V limit, right? At least that’s what we were lead to believe. So unless it’s a bug in the way the CPU boosts, I’m at a loss as to how Intel plans to lower the voltage further in order to protect this vulnerable circuit. What am I missing?

Intel Again To Release Microcode Update 0x12B to Address Vmin Offset in 13th and 14th Series Desktop Processors

Intel has announced the deployment of microcode update 0x12B aimed at resolving the Vmin offset instability observed in its 13th and 14th series desktop processors.

www.guru3d.com

EDIT: My re-read caused me to zoom in on this statement. It’s the only one that says anything to me that hints at the real root cause. “This comprehensive approach aims to correct excessive voltage requests during periods of low processor demand…” The root cause is NOT the degradation, which is the way this press-report reads to me.

EDIT 2: The TechSpot article says much the same, but in even clearer language: “The final culprit is the microcode and BIOS requesting elevated voltages during idle/light workloads.”

So, there we have it. This fix could be for the issue that BuildZoid has been complaining about for months, namely a high AC_LL value leading to mysteriously high Voltages, and/or maybe those spikes at the start and end of Cinebench R15 and R23. Let’s hope so. That would be a welcome fix.

 

[SyntheticStatus]

Replying to my own reply, here. But this media report adds a little more detail, I think. Now I’m confused. What exactly will the new microcode aim to do? The issue of degradation was always known. So what difference does it make what part of the CPU wears out first? The issue of high voltages was supposed to be fixed with the 0x129 1.55V limit, right? At least that’s what we were lead to believe. So unless it’s a bug in the way the CPU boosts, I’m at a loss as to how Intel plans to lower the voltage further in order to protect this vulnerable circuit. What am I missing?

Intel Again To Release Microcode Update 0x12B to Address Vmin Offset in 13th and 14th Series Desktop Processors

Intel has announced the deployment of microcode update 0x12B aimed at resolving the Vmin offset instability observed in its 13th and 14th series desktop processors.

www.guru3d.com

EDIT: My re-read caused me to zoom in on this statement. It’s the only one that says anything to me that hints at the real root cause. “This comprehensive approach aims to correct excessive voltage requests during periods of low processor demand…” The root cause is NOT the degradation, which is the way this press-report reads to me.

EDIT 2: The TechSpot article says much the same, but in even clearer language: “The final culprit is the microcode and BIOS requesting elevated voltages during idle/light workloads.”

So, there we have it. This could be that high AC_LL leading to mysteriously high Voltages thing that BuildZoid has been complaining about for months. And maybe those spikes at the start and end of R15 and R23. Let’s hope so. That would be a welcome fix.

Yeah, essentially the previous microcode patch capped the high voltage side effect of the root cause that damaged the cpu. This last patch fixes the root cause issue that should eliminate those side effects. I would assume the end result will be the CPU running cooler with less voltage.

 

[MigraineFilms]

Replying to my own reply, here. But this media report adds a little more detail, I think. Now I’m confused. What exactly will the new microcode aim to do? The issue of degradation was always known. So what difference does it make what part of the CPU wears out first? The issue of high voltages was supposed to be fixed with the 0x129 1.55V limit, right? At least that’s what we were lead to believe. So unless it’s a bug in the way the CPU boosts, I’m at a loss as to how Intel plans to lower the voltage further in order to protect this vulnerable circuit. What am I missing?

Intel Again To Release Microcode Update 0x12B to Address Vmin Offset in 13th and 14th Series Desktop Processors

Intel has announced the deployment of microcode update 0x12B aimed at resolving the Vmin offset instability observed in its 13th and 14th series desktop processors.

www.guru3d.com

EDIT: My re-read caused me to zoom in on this statement. It’s the only one that says anything to me that hints at the real root cause. “This comprehensive approach aims to correct excessive voltage requests during periods of low processor demand…” The root cause is NOT the degradation, which is the way this press-report reads to me.

EDIT 2: The TechSpot article says much the same, but in even clearer language: “The final culprit is the microcode and BIOS requesting elevated voltages during idle/light workloads.”

So, there we have it. This could be that high AC_LL leading to mysteriously high Voltages thing that BuildZoid has been complaining about for months. And maybe those spikes at the start and end of R15 and R23. Let’s hope so. That would be a welcome fix.

So, as we speculated, the 0x129 was a band aid, it patched the spike (stopped the bleeding) but did not eliminate the CAUSE of the spike.

0x129 made the voltage be limited to 1,55
0x12B will make the CPU stop requesting the voltage.

Its nothing more than logical that the actual fix took longer to create. If this theory is true, the microcode patch wouldnt be that benefitial to most users, but if you like more voltage headroom in overclocking, it gives you that freedom without the bug frying your cpu

 

[FlyingScot]

Yeah, essentially the previous microcode patch capped the high voltage side effect of the root cause that damaged the cpu. This last patch fixes the root cause issue that should eliminate those side effects. I would assume the end result will be the CPU running cooler with less voltage.

In a nutshell, I think that's the best way to describe it. Although, we should keep in mind that the eTVB bug (pre 0x125) was a contributor rather than a side effect.

Well, I guess we should all be thankful that the issue looks like it was a software problem all along and not a hardware design issue. At least Raptor Lake owners who have not yet experienced any obvious degradation issues might be in the clear after they implement all their voltage mitigations and this latest microcode. It would be nice to bring this saga to an end. Although, I will miss all of our little chats on the subject!

 

[MigraineFilms]

Al we need now is a tool to check if your cpu is damaged or not.

Although, I think that undervolting and no crashes is clear enough, but still. In nearly a full year of use I had one instance of the bug, in a demo of an unreleased game. Who knows if that was a fluke or actual damage.

 

[FlyingScot]

Al we need now is a tool to check if your cpu is damaged or not.

Although, I think that undervolting and no crashes is clear enough, but still. In nearly a full year of use I had one instance of the bug, in a demo of an unreleased game. Who knows if that was a fluke or actual damage.

I think you are right that the only thing Raptor Lake owners can do to judge the potential life expectancy of their CPU is to use their undervolting as a yardstick. The more you can undervolt, the more room you have to address normal wear and tear caused by current (amps). Hopefully, the majority of RPL CPUs will outlive their owners' needs.

 

[crimson8814f802d4]

Would love to know when we'll be getting this new micro code. I really think Intel should announce this stuff alongside the actual release of the bios revision for all MBs. Wait until it's tested, validated and ready to go before telling us it's coming...

 

[MigraineFilms]

Would love to know when we'll be getting this new micro code. I really think Intel should announce this stuff alongside the actual release of the bios revision for all MBs. Wait until it's tested, validated and ready to go before telling us it's coming...

Its a mixed bag, they need to keep shareholders happy and protect their revenue. "Bomb dismanteled!" Is more reassuring for those watching the news, the ones around the bomb might still be a bit anxious.
Now, this is hyperbolic of course, but it will make potential buyers be more relaxed about their choice, while it makes owners (who already paid) a bit more anxious because "wait, its not fixed yet?"

They need to show they put in effort, because the i9 13900k is almost two years old and only now are they fixing an issue. They waited too long with this whole debacle anyway.

Thankfully: the degredation issue is already fixed with the 0x129. They cpu's wont die due to elevated voltage spikes anymore, all this next microcode does is fixing it at the root, instead of just limiting the voltages, thats how I understand it.

0x129 fixed the cpu being GIVEN the voltage, 0x12B will fix the cpu ASKING voltage

 

[crimson8814f802d4]

True true! Also hoping for that VR voltage limit in the next bios

 

[citay]

Just as we speculated, this issue is gonna keep everyone updating their BIOS for months. Looks like the CPUs can finally be called well-protected after this. Let's see if 0x12B is the final word on this matter. Of course, all these patches only help when the CPU wasn't degraded too much yet, otherwise it's RMA time. No newer microcode can fix existing degradation instability.

 

[persiz154202d8]

There is already a beta version for Z790 Gaming Plus WiFi with the new Microcode 0x12B and the new CPU VR Voltage Limit option. So far it looks like it behaves the same with mine 14600K.