PC sometimes won't wake up from sleep mode, red + yellow lights on MB

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hupimies2151a02d0

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Board: X670E Tomahawk WIFI
BIOS: 7E12v1E
GPU: AsRock RX 7900 XT Phantom Gaming OC
CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Cooler: Noctua NH-D15
RAM: 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance 6000MHz
SSD: Samsung 2TB 990 PRO
PSU: Corsair 850W RM850x
SYS: Windows 11 Home x64 Ver. 10.0.22631

About 7/10 times the pc wakes up normally from sleep mode, during which red and yellow light on motherboard (CPU, RAM) flash. 3/10 times the lights light up for about 30 seconds, after which they turn off about the same time. After this only black screen, USB devices get power (leds on mouse light up, not on keyboard) but no other connection. Have waited for over 30 minutes, no change. Always gets fixed by forced shutoff via holding down the power button, after this boots up to saved state (previous applications open etc.) No problems on regular startup.

Worked normally for about a year, problem started a few months ago suddenly. Didn't disconnect or open up the PC / download any software / do anything else notable which could have caused system change. All temps during benchmarks normal and no problems during running. PC has never crashed etc.

List of things that have not fixed the problem:

Updated BIOS
Reset BIOS settings through BIOS menu, haven't cleared CMOS with jumping
Updated GPU drivers
Updated Windows from 10 to 11
Reset Windows power settings through troubleshooting
Turned off fast startup
Unplugged and reconnected PSU (also removed and reconnected GPU, didn't try to boot without it)
RAM are in slots A2 and B2 per the manual, as they have always been

Not a huge problem, but very annoying since I primarily keep PC in sleep mode. Also have to think that constant forced shutoff doesn't do the PC any favors. Any thoughts on possible fixes? Could clearing CMOS have any other effect than resetting through the BIOS menu does?
 
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Waldorf said:
@hupimies2151a02d0
so all those things you tried and "wasted" time on, ignoring possible issues bricking something, if the power goes out, while not gaining anything (from using sleep)
except maybe a couple of seconds less time to get to the desktop, all while consuming "more" power.
all fixed easily, by shutting down the pc, so why not just do that?

unless i missed something, it usually takes about ~30s to boot to desktop on win OS (7-11), so not something messing up your schedule, ignoring i can turn on the pc
and do something else for 1 min, so to not "waste" time, if i wanted to.
Click to expand...
In my case sometimes it doesn't boot to windows, even if it came from a complete shut down.
 
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martin.v.ubillu15a002e3 said:
In my case sometimes it doesn't boot to windows, even if it came from a complete shut down.
Click to expand...
Hi Martin. As I've said earlier sometimes shut down did not goes well as it should either by Power off from Win or by Pwr button.
It looks like PC is off, but actually some unexpected voltages prevent MB to shut down completely.
If in such state happened power loss from the grid for example my MB never pass POST (ligh stops on DRAM with 3 beeps).
To return it to life new bios need to be reflashed. (what is odd thatold bios sometime allow system to start well, say 1 of 10)
Just try to enable ErP in bios and check the result.
 
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@martin.v.ubillu15a002e3
then that's a psu/short/power button etc. issue that needs to be fixed first, nothing a setting change will do, nor will using stdby make it better.

@ibolitu15a002e8
ErP has nothing to do with proper (selecting shutdown in OS/Fast boot disabled) mb shutdown, but to save (more power) when an "office" use pc is powered down,
thats being used in countries like the EU, by removing power to anything except power button (for simple terms).
 
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Waldorf said:
@hupimies2151a02d0
so all those things you tried and "wasted" time on, ignoring possible issues bricking something, if the power goes out, while not gaining anything (from using sleep)
except maybe a couple of seconds less time to get to the desktop, all while consuming "more" power.
all fixed easily, by shutting down the pc, so why not just do that?

unless i missed something, it usually takes about ~30s to boot to desktop on win OS (7-11), so not something messing up your schedule, ignoring i can turn on the pc
and do something else for 1 min, so to not "waste" time, if i wanted to.
Click to expand...

Is there a state where all my apps remain open? because as far as I know when you turn it off it all closes with it which is what I don't want.
 
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Waldorf said:
@martin.v.ubillu15a002e3
then that's a psu/short/power button etc. issue that needs to be fixed first, nothing a setting change will do, nor will using stdby make it better.

@ibolitu15a002e8
ErP has nothing to do with proper (selecting shutdown in OS/Fast boot disabled) mb shutdown, but to save (more power) when an "office" use pc is powered down,
thats being used in countries like the EU, by removing power to anything except power button (for simple terms).
Click to expand...
when I press the button lights turn on, fans spin. So I don't think it's power related.
 
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@martin.v.ubillu15a002e3
i dont know a single reason why any (home) desktop needs to have apps open, maybe if you were using ECC ram, otherwise not a good idea.
you will have potential calculation errors over time, especially if your not running stock/voltages/ram clocks/timings.

also less likely to have any data loss/corruption after things like (app/driver) updates, which usually are better off with a reboot.
its like leaving your car running overnight, just so you dont need to warm it up in the morning...

unless you have done everything to exclude it, like replacing the psu with a different unit (confirmed to be working properly), removed the mb from the case (to exclude short/button issues),
its more likely than anything else (short of an issue with powerline), definitely NOT related to ErP setting.

your changing too many things so have more or less no way of knowing what the cause is (just because changing a setting with the problem "disappearing", doesnt mean its actually fixed),
all while having same issues with different gpu/cpu, but the same psu/case/wiring.

ignoring for a moment you have not stated if its doing it when running "stock" bios (clocks/voltages) with things like PBO/spread spectrum/c-states/power down/rebar disabled, or if you have re-seated ram/gpu and any power cables.

so do that, and replace (and test) with a different psu, THEN tell me its not power related, as from my experience, fans running but no sys power, is (from some exceptions) usually psu related.
 
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I know.
All you can do is hope for a software fix (not going to happen) or return the board and get one from a different company.
 
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@MadSky
right.
like you claiming that enabling pbo is a fix?
if something IS wrong, so that you cant properly power up/down or use stdby (without cpu/ram oc in anyway), it has ZERO to do with enabling pbo, this needs to work on any machine (with pbo disabled).
just because the problem goes away, doesnt mean jack, that pbo is a fix.

and considering your solution requires pbo on AND expo.
there are enough kits without expo, so your "fix" would require ppl to swap existing kits for (a specified expo), just to make the pc work properly (power state)?
just lol.

and btw, almost all power up/down/stdby issues with stock settings for cpu/ram i had in the past 20y on any machine (incl customers) was hw related to hw problems,
especially when i hear about fans spinning but nothing happens.
 
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Waldorf said:
@MadSky
right.
like you claiming that enabling pbo is a fix?
if something IS wrong, so that you cant properly power up/down or use stdby (without cpu/ram oc in anyway), it has ZERO to do with enabling pbo, this needs to work on any machine (with pbo disabled).
just because the problem goes away, doesnt mean jack, that pbo is a fix.

and considering your solution requires pbo on AND expo.
there are enough kits without expo, so your "fix" would require ppl to swap existing kits for (a specified expo), just to make the pc work properly (power state)?
just lol.

and btw, almost all power up/down/stdby issues with stock settings for cpu/ram i had in the past 20y on any machine (incl customers) was hw related to hw problems,
especially when i hear about fans spinning but nothing happens.
Click to expand...
I think he meant disabling EXPO/XMP and PBO, not enabling it.
 
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I don't think this is an X3D issue. I have a regular 7700X and am also having this annoying problem.

MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WiFi
AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
AMD Radeon 7800XT
2x32GB G-Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6000
 
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Waldorf said:
@hupimies2151a02d0
so all those things you tried and "wasted" time on, ignoring possible issues bricking something, if the power goes out, while not gaining anything (from using sleep)
except maybe a couple of seconds less time to get to the desktop, all while consuming "more" power.
all fixed easily, by shutting down the pc, so why not just do that?

unless i missed something, it usually takes about ~30s to boot to desktop on win OS (7-11), so not something messing up your schedule, ignoring i can turn on the pc
and do something else for 1 min, so to not "waste" time, if i wanted to.
Click to expand...
For me, it's not about those precious 30 seconds I can gain from not having to reboot. I often leave my PC idle for long periods while having lots of software development related stuff open. I may be on a break, or working on other stuff on my work Mac mini. During those times, my PC would go to sleep. And then when I come back, wouldn't be able to resume whatever stuff I have been working on.

My work-around for now is to set my PC to hibernate (instead of sleep, by default) when it's been idle for a while. But the problem with this is, this only works on my Windows 11 installation. I also work on Linux and hibernation on Linux is a mess and is not working on my setup. So, on Linux, I now have (wake up from) sleep and hibernation issues.
 
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@martin.v.ubillu15a002e3
technically, pbo on auto means its disabled, so not really needed to set to disable manually, i only do set it that way (incl recommend), to make sure no other
stuff decides to mess with it and related settings.

@rainai
not the common home user (sw dev).
even if its not a "work" machine, anytime i cant verify what causes it, disable/not using stdby is better, and usually outweighs the little higher power consumption.

again, test swap psu if possible, and not a no name or less than gold rated (good bronze units from random brands are rare), remove board to test outside the case, power button not connected, as well as try a new cmos battery, but i havent seen that being an issue on late msi boards.
 
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Don't think we are asking much for a decades old feature to work. I mean in some ways we went backwards. Longer POST times and unable to use the sleep feature. Is this just as issue on MSI boards or does anyone know if it happens on other vendors' motherboards?
 
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Waldorf said:
@hupimies2151a02d0
so all those things you tried and "wasted" time on, ignoring possible issues bricking something, if the power goes out, while not gaining anything (from using sleep)
except maybe a couple of seconds less time to get to the desktop, all while consuming "more" power.
all fixed easily, by shutting down the pc, so why not just do that?

unless i missed something, it usually takes about ~30s to boot to desktop on win OS (7-11), so not something messing up your schedule, ignoring i can turn on the pc
and do something else for 1 min, so to not "waste" time, if i wanted to.
Click to expand...
Man goes to the doctor, says "my hand hurts when I do this". Doc says "don't do that then."

Not very useful advice, keep in mind that different people have different setups and preferences. For me it's really convenient that I can turn on the PC just by pressing a button on a wireless keyboard on the other side of the room and have all my applications still open, for some people sleep mode is probably irrelevant.
 
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@hupimies2151a02d0
for 99% of desktop machines (read: no battery powered mode for the device) using standby/hibernation is a bad idea, especially considering how many things need shutdown/reboot after install/updating, ignoring that for example hibernation is already getting disabled on certain combos (hw/os) for desktops, besides that the chance for problems, when considering possible data corruption over time , or data loss/bricking drives because of power failure.

if "you" want to trade convenience for that, its fine, still will not be my recommendation for normal users, and the 10y working in shops has shown for most its better to not use it on desktops.
besides, i dont have to use standby, to be able to turn on the pc on "remotely".
 
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hupimies2151a02d0 said:
Man goes to the doctor, says "my hand hurts when I do this". Doc says "don't do that then."

Not very useful advice, keep in mind that different people have different setups and preferences. For me it's really convenient that I can turn on the PC just by pressing a button on a wireless keyboard on the other side of the room and have all my applications still open, for some people sleep mode is probably irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Exactly the definition I was looking for
 
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Waldorf said:
for 99% of desktop machines (read: no battery powered mode for the device) using standby/hibernation is a bad idea, especially considering how many things need shutdown/reboot after install/updating, ignoring that for example hibernation is already getting disabled on certain combos (hw/os) for desktops, besides that the chance for problems, when considering possible data corruption over time , or data loss/bricking drives because of power failure.
Click to expand...
For 99% of desktop machines using local storage is a bad idea considering that it might become defective and all your data will be gone. It's better to boot via Ethernet and keep all your data in the cloud.
 
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If sleep works or not depends on too many little things: hardware, firmwares, drivers and other external software problems (read windows updates)
A recent amd chipset driver was released to issue a specific sleep bug for example, but they have been updating agesa a lot since then... maybe the previous patch needs to be updated.

you seriously need to put on sleep a desktop pc? for what? save the 30-50 watt on power consumption for a couple hours?
desktop pc are meant to be up and running for days,
but if a laptop can't use sleep becomes pretty useless, that's understandable (but usually laptops are a much more controlled environment, it's less likely to happen)
Somebody even decides to run folding at home and donate computational power to medical research
I know, maybe it's no good for the environment, but it's better for preventing headaches for sure
 
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