PC won't boot sometimes, but sometimes it will..

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fixu.f158702dd

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I've seen already some similar posts, but none of them solved my problem..

I'm biting my teeth out with this problem. I've had this build for over a year without problems. Someday, the pc won't boot up. so i've tried to restart, worked. the next day again no boot, but multiple times.

In the last 4 months, the problem intensified until i couldn't trust my pc to work in home office.. will it start, or will it not? I've found some report about a Boot loop, and i think it could have to be the problem that i have now..

seems to be a similar problem as e.g. here : https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?...o-vbios-support-detected-in-this-card.363769/


Detailed prescription:

Whenever i try to turn the pc on, the fans and RGB are working. Then my Mouse and Keyboard get 1sec of power, but then turn off again. I won't get an image on my monitors, they stay in standby as if they won't recieve any signals. From time to time, the PC catches itself up, and as soon as the monitors go on it shows a quick message "there is no vbios

the only way i found out to get back to service is to disconnect the GPU, hook up HDMI to the MB, and reboot. after reboot, i've tried to flash the bios and could get it done, but the problem came back again and again.. CMOS was cleared, no progress with this...

Build:

MB: MAG B650 TOMAHAWK WIFI (MS-7D75)
BIOS Version: now again 7D75v1J2, tried it with7D75v1K and went back
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
GPU: RTX 3080 SUPRIM X 12G LHR
RAM: 4x Corsair Vengeance DDR5 5200MHz
PSU: Corsair RM850x
 
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Did you try using Flash BIOS Button to update BIOS?

How to update BIOS with Flash BIOS Button
1. Please download the latest BIOS file that matches your motherboard model fromthe MSI® website.
2. Rename the BIOS file to MSI.ROM, and save it to the root of the USB storage device.
3. Connect the power supply to CPU_PWR1 and ATX_PWR1. (No need to install CPUand memory.)
4. Plug the USB storage device that contains the MSI.ROM file into the Flash BIOSPort on the rear I/O panel.
5. Press the Flash BIOS Button to flash BIOS, and the LED starts flashing.
6. The LED will be turned off when the process is completed.
 
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Kind of - i've updated my BIOS yesterday again to version 7D75v1K and it dind't help.

After BIOS update, it could boot and post. I've restarted a few times, and everything worked. But as soon as i left my PC off for a few minutes, the issue came back and i could boot, but not post..

By the way, i've edited my PSU in the originam post if this helps..
 
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The problem is still present.. tried to boot, but again the boot loop with no post. Then i removed the GPU and connected DP to Mainboard - with another reboot, there came the post.. shut down the PC, installed the gpu, again no post. then i adventureously left the GPU installed but with no power wiring on, DP installed still in MB - posted again. So i thought - what if i now change the DP back to GPU while running and reconnect power wiring while the PC is running (should not do that, i know). But finally, the GPU went to work back again as there would be no problem.

What could cause this strange boot loop thing? I need some help here please :(
 
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Hello there, I don't have much experience with this problem so hope someone else with more experience can come in and help you guys till then here are some suggestions.

My go to problems will be:
1. - broken mainboard
2. - broken videocard
3. - some SSD windows install shenanigans

For 1.
- You try a known really good mainboard bios so for your 7700x you are fine to go with this older but tried and tested bios version: 7D75v17 (with AGESA ComboPI 1.0.0.7c).
- Get your hand on a random GPU just to test out the mainboard slot and how it reacts to it, if the board is a-okay or not.

For 2.
- You try your video card in another computer to very this is working fine still.
- If you can load the GPU once maybe update the video card bios if you are outdated maybe it helps, I think MSI applications can do it. If not then something like this video. And you get vbios from here.

For 3.
- Stay away from Samsung and WD ssd's they can have problems with the AMD ecosystem.
- In case you migrated your old SSD in the new PC well you need to play around in the bios with CSM/UEFI Mode. Ideal of course is you want to format SSD and to a fresh windows install with bios in UEFI mode and of course GPT partition style.

If all this seems to complicated then maybe it is time to try a PC repair shop, it can be a hassle and cost a bit but you can finally fix the problem with people that know more and have the tools to try all options to get to the bottom of it.
 
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This has nothing to do with the GPU. I have unplugged my GPU for the most part and only relied on internal graphics. My machine has been running stable since I bought and built it. I have over 30 yrs experience in building computers. No this problem started in the last 2 months, all on its own. If two or more boards are having the exact same issue at the same timeframe then you know its a manufacturing flaw.
 
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I also think it isn't a GPU or SSD thing here. I've spoken to a friend of mine which works as multimedia technician and is into electronics - he said thst there could be maybe more a kind of a PSU/MB issue, where the PC can't handle the initial electric/electronic signals and twists itself in this boot loop. Maybe that could be, because i also haven't had problems before the last 4 months and some updates.

I've read about a probable fix in another post here, where a rollback to BIOS 7D75v1A was posted as a workaround. And if i still get the same problem, i think i need to try another PSU.

i will also try it with another Monitor later today, and look if maybe this has something to do with it.

Help would be still appreciated 😔
 
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jacquesmoster155502d7 said:
If two or more boards are having the exact same issue at the same timeframe then you know its a manufacturing flaw.
Click to expand...
And we don't know how may CPUs got their life cut short with the SOC voltage that the boards stared with.
It could be we are now starting to get CPU that were exposed to excessive SOC voltage to start to die
 
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I'm scared to turn the PC off now, and didn't have enough time to flash BIOS yesterday.

I've tried to read some things out with HW Info - can you guys please check thatt those values in attached picture are okay to proceed? Didn't change anything, but just to know.
 

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Values look normal to me, it would have been better if you had 2 x 32 GB sticks of ram and not 4 because AM5 prefers kits of two.
3 x Samsung SSD's yakes, all the more reason to stay on bios version: 7D75v17 so it can easily be a case of at times disappearing SSD with windows on it.
Also what vbios version you have, check with GPU-Z.
 
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i just buyed the additional 2x16gb because i wasn't sure if the problem could be caused by RAM.. now i know it's not, and i live from now on with 64GB on those 4 RAM's :-)
a friend of mine built the pc, and as he had 2 M2's left, he built it in. but there isn't any data on those two (yet).
VBIOS version is Version94.2.85.0.6f (couldn't find it with CPU-Z, but with display settings in windows settings)

Also - isn't it strange that my RAM hot reduced to 2600MHz?

Best regards, looking forward to hear from you again :-)
 
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fixu.f158702dd said:
BIOS version is Version94.2.85.0.6f (couldn't find it with CPU-Z
Click to expand...
You need to use GPU-Z from here.

So for vbios the only other option left would be VBIOS Version: 94.02.85.00.70 they have same upload date they might be the same thing. If someone knows more here it will be useful: .6f vs .70 you could even try to ask MSI Support for clarification on the two vbios differences.

fixu.f158702dd said:
Also - isn't it strange that my RAM hot reduced to 2600MHz?
Click to expand...
No it is normal to report half the speed, just 2 x 2600 = 5200 your kits EXPO / XMP rated speed.
 
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fixu.f158702dd said:
The problem is still present.. tried to boot, but again the boot loop with no post. Then i removed the GPU and connected DP to Mainboard - with another reboot, there came the post.. shut down the PC, installed the gpu, again no post. then i adventureously left the GPU installed but with no power wiring on, DP installed still in MB - posted again. So i thought - what if i now change the DP back to GPU while running and reconnect power wiring while the PC is running (should not do that, i know). But finally, the GPU went to work back again as there would be no problem.

What could cause this strange boot loop thing? I need some help here please :(
Click to expand...
Try a different monitor. I have a 4K 120Hz Asus monitor that all three of my desktops sometimes have an issue with hanging during POST. I don't know if it is the resolution and bandwidth needed causes a bug or what. I also had a Roccat Vulkan 120 keyboard go bad on me last week and caused my X870E and another desktop to halt during POST with B4 on the Q-code LED. This is a USB device error code, and if you do not have a debug LED you might now know. When this happens it will hang forever with either a black screen or the screen on with a blinking underline cursor in the top left corner, and it might boot fine the next time. Unplugging the keyboard it would boot normally. Replacing the keyboard with a Corsair K70 cured the problem. Try unplugging all USB devices to test this as anything attached could cause it, but a keyboard and/or mouse with onboard memory for storing profiles in the most likely candidate.
 
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jacquesmoster155502d7 said:
This has nothing to do with the GPU. I have unplugged my GPU for the most part and only relied on internal graphics. My machine has been running stable since I bought and built it. I have over 30 yrs experience in building computers. No this problem started in the last 2 months, all on its own. If two or more boards are having the exact same issue at the same timeframe then you know its a manufacturing flaw.
Click to expand...
Pbo on undervolted? Expo enabled soc and other voltages? Degradation?
 
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Mr.Fox said:
Try a different monitor. I have a 4K 120Hz Asus monitor that all three of my desktops sometimes have an issue with hanging during POST. I don't know if it is the resolution and bandwidth needed causes a bug or what. I also had a Roccat Vulkan 120 keyboard go bad on me last week and caused my X870E and another desktop to halt during POST with B4 on the Q-code LED. This is a USB device error code, and if you do not have a debug LED you might now know. When this happens it will hang forever with either a black screen or the screen on with a blinking underline cursor in the top left corner, and it might boot fine the next time. Unplugging the keyboard it would boot normally. Replacing the keyboard with a Corsair K70 cured the problem. Try unplugging all USB devices to test this as anything attached could cause it, but a keyboard and/or mouse with onboard memory for storing profiles in the most likely candidate.
Click to expand...
Wow - kind of randomly, i've just bought a Samsung G7 Monitor that was delivered yesterday. Before, i've had 2 ASUS monitors with 4K/60Hz (VP28 and MG28 i think), with whose the problems began with. As soon as i've substituted one of those with the new Samsung one, the PC booted and posted quicker than ever before. I'm kind of stunned that this could have solved the problem (until now, at least). I didn't flash the BIOS again, nor did i do any other changes since my last post. Thank you for that tip - i will report in the next days how it worked out.

Big thank you for the support, guys 🙂 fingers crossed that i now can enjoy my setup and the problem stays away. Also, i wish all the others with the same problem good luck.
 
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Alright, quick recap - the boot loop seems to be gone! Since i work with my new Monitor, there were - let's say - less problems. Sometimes mouse and keyboard are doing a lightshow when boot/post, but i've always managed to post. Today i've flashed VBIOS with the latest version available, as @sherbrovideo15a102de said with https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/242470/msi-rtx3080-12288-211110 . No more problems since :-) if the problem reappears, i will come back to this chat - thank you, kind people! Have a good pre-christmas-time.
 
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fixu.f158702dd said:
Alright, quick recap - the boot loop seems to be gone! Since i work with my new Monitor, there were - let's say - less problems. Sometimes mouse and keyboard are doing a lightshow when boot/post, but i've always managed to post. Today i've flashed VBIOS with the latest version available, as @sherbrovideo15a102de said with https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/242470/msi-rtx3080-12288-211110 . No more problems since :-) if the problem reappears, i will come back to this chat - thank you, kind people! Have a good pre-christmas-time.
Click to expand...

Glad your situation is better now.
Remember if you have disappearing Samsung / WD SSD's then downgrade to mainboard bios version: 7D75v17 (with AGESA ComboPI 1.0.0.7c) since you have the 'older' 7700x cpu all will be okay.
 
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