PC worked fine for 1 year but now it won't boot on cold weather

[alokguha768152402d1]

As the title says my pc with msi b660m a ddr4 motherboard in it worked completely fine for a year but now that it's cold here in India with temp reaching as low as 8c in my area, the pc refuses to boot in the morning but it works completely fine when it finally boots up after the temp goes up cuz of sunrise.

I've tried updating the bios, checked the psu with the 'paperclip' test, tried directly jumping the power button header on the motherboard, detached the CMOS battery and tried to boot without it(if the CMOS battery was dead it would've booted with default bios no?).

Apart from leaving the mains power on and hoping that it boots automatically after sometime (like sometimes 5 minutes sometimes 1 hour) when the temp goes up, the only way it boots right after I turn on the mains power switch is if I jump the CMOS clear header with a screwdriver.

I've searched the internet and found only two causes dry/cold joint and condensation. So if anyone could tell me if there's something I could do to not send it for warranty it would be great, cuz sending it for warranty is such a hassle, I won't be able to use my pc for atleast 1 month, I have to unplug everything etc

 

[GhiaOne]

Sounds like a problem with your mains power grid, not with the PC. A quick search revealed lots of problems with the power grid in situations where the demand is high. That would be either when it is very hot or very cold.
You say you "leave the power on" and the PC may boot automatically. When the temperature goes up, the general demand goes down and your PSU gets enough power to boot the system.
Your PSU could also be a problem....what is the make and model ?

 

[Alan J T]

As the title says my pc with msi b660m a ddr4 motherboard in it worked completely fine for a year but now that it's cold here in India with temp reaching as low as 8c in my area, the pc refuses to boot in the morning but it works completely fine when it finally boots up after the temp goes up cuz of sunrise.

I've tried updating the bios, checked the psu with the 'paperclip' test, tried directly jumping the power button header on the motherboard, detached the CMOS battery and tried to boot without it(if the CMOS battery was dead it would've booted with default bios no?).

Apart from leaving the mains power on and hoping that it boots automatically after sometime (like sometimes 5 minutes sometimes 1 hour) when the temp goes up, the only way it boots right after I turn on the mains power switch is if I jump the CMOS clear header with a screwdriver.

I've searched the internet and found only two causes dry/cold joint and condensation. So if anyone could tell me if there's something I could do to not send it for warranty it would be great, cuz sending it for warranty is such a hassle, I won't be able to use my pc for atleast 1 month, I have to unplug everything etc

Try a hair dryer to warm up the PC. just run the hot air over it for a couple of minutes and see if it helps

 

[citay]

I've tried updating the bios, checked the psu with the 'paperclip' test,

Paperclip test is a no-load test, in other words, it doesn't tell you much at all. What's your PSU model and how old is it?
Can you try with a different PSU (has to be known good, not too old, and of decent quality)?

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

Sounds like a problem with your mains power grid, not with the PC. A quick search revealed lots of problems with the power grid in situations where the demand is high. That would be either when it is very hot or very cold.
You say you "leave the power on" and the PC may boot automatically. When the temperature goes up, the general demand goes down and your PSU gets enough power to boot the system.
Your PSU could also be a problem....what is the make and model ?

The psu turned on when the paperclip test is done so I don't think it's that, and I also have those home inverters for power outage even running it on it won't solve the problem.

The psu is deepcool pf550, not a decent one ik

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

Try a hair dryer to warm up the PC. just run the hot air over it for a couple of minutes and see if it helps

Well that's not actually the solution tho. I wanna know what's actually causing the problem and if possible fix it myself.

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

Paperclip test is a no-load test, in other words, it doesn't tell you much at all. What's your PSU model and how old is it?
Can you try with a different PSU (has to be known good, not too old, and of decent quality)?

Ok but the psu fan does spin with the test and not when I press the power button or jump the mobo power header directly, doesn't that mean the psu is ok for now and it's either the mobo or the CPU?

My psu is deepcool pf550 and it's 1 year old same as my whole pc and I don't have a spare psu

 

[Alan J T]

Well that's not actually the solution tho. I wanna know what's actually causing the problem and if possible fix it myself.

Yes but it will allow you to see if it is a Temperature or Power problem

 

[GhiaOne]

Ok but the psu fan does spin with the test and not when I press the power button or jump the mobo power header directly, doesn't that mean the psu is ok for now and it's either the mobo or the CPU?

My psu is deepcool pf550 and it's 1 year old same as my whole pc and I don't have a spare psu

The paperclip test doesn't really say much about how the PSU will perform when you put a full load on it.
Your PSU is in the "Avoid" category on the PSU tier list here : https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/
Definitely a suspect.

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

Yes but it will allow you to see if it is a Temperature or Power problem

Hmm that makes sense but sadly I don't have access to one of those lol I can let the pc sit under the sun tho

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

The paperclip test doesn't really say much about how the PSU will perform when you put a full load on it.
Your PSU is in the "Avoid" category on the PSU tier list here : https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/
Definitely a suspect.

Ya ik but still the psu fan should spin or the pc fans, lights etc should turn on for a sec or so when I press the power button no? Me myself hoping that it's simply a psu fault cuz that would be the easiest to replace. But when the pc is on it literally have no problem like I just played CS2 and GTA v it's all good but the moment I turn it off and try to start it the next morning it won't start aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa what the [***CENSORED***] if you not gonna work just don't

 

[citay]

Yeah this is a really bad PSU model, cheap topology, low-end components, and design flaws. Such as placing electrolytic capacitors (too cheap Chinese models) very close to parts that get very hot, accellerating their deterioration. Here is the inside of a Thermaltake Smart BX1 RGB 650W Bronze (those models are bad too) which does a similar mistake, you can see the cheap secondary ChengX capacitors (green) leaning against the chokes (ferrite cores with windings), which will warm up under load and negatively affect the lifetime of the heat-sensitive capacitors:

Here's a measurement from the Deepcool PF650, you can see how the capacitors (round things on the left) really get subjected to a lot of heat in there,

But it also just performs very badly, it's only good for up to 200W of load, above that, the voltage regulation really can't deal with it too good. And of course it's inefficient, but 80 PLUS White already tells us that. For a modern system, 80 PLUS Bronze efficiency is the minimum, and Tier C, not lower. Ideal is 80 PLUS Gold or higher, and Tier A/B.

So i would recommend to replace this PSU with a higher-quality one, see my Guide: How to find a good PSU. The problem can easily come from your PSU. Even if it doesn't fix it, it would be a good investment, because this Deepcool model is only good for an office PC, not something with a graphics card.

Your BIOS, you're on 7D43v1G aka .1G0 now?

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

Yeah this is a really bad PSU model, cheap topology, low-end components, and design flaws. Such as placing electrolytic capacitors (too cheap Chinese models) very close to parts that get very hot, accellerating their deterioration. Here is the inside of a Thermaltake Smart BX1 RGB 650W Bronze (those models are bad too) which does a similar mistake, you can see the cheap secondary ChengX capacitors (green) leaning against the chokes (ferrite cores with windings), which will warm up under load and negatively affect the lifetime of the heat-sensitive capacitors:

Here's a measurement from the Deepcool PF650, you can see how the capacitors (round things on the left) really get subjected to a lot of heat in there,

View attachment 184249

But it also just performs very badly, it's only good for up to 200W of load, above that, the voltage regulation really can't deal with it too good. And of course it's inefficient, but 80 PLUS White already tells us that. For a modern system, 80 PLUS Bronze efficiency is the minimum, and Tier C, not lower. Ideal is 80 PLUS Gold or higher, and Tier A/B.

So i would recommend to replace this PSU with a higher-quality one, see my Guide: How to find a good PSU. The problem can easily come from your PSU. Even if it doesn't fix it, it would be a good investment, because this Deepcool model is only good for an office PC, not something with a graphics card.

Your BIOS, you're on 7D43v1G aka .1G0 now?

Holy [***CENSORED***] how tf did you manage to get this amount of data in such a short time.. I got a rx6600 and 12400 which doesn't spend that amount of power so I'm not looking for an "good investment" rn and ik it's a trash psu dw about that but I just wanna fix the current problem I'm facing daily

My bios is 1.E0, I was on 1.F0 but that causes audio issues so I downgraded

 

[citay]

ik it's a trash psu dw about that but I just wanna fix the current problem I'm facing daily

And you don't think this can be PSU-related? Of course it can be PSU-related. If you want to test this, ask around if you can borrow some other PSU (known good, not too old, decent quality), and connect it using its own cables. But as i said, with a Tier E PSU, i would buy something better right away.

This Deepcool PF model uses a simple so-called Double Forward topology, the secondary side uses only passive rectification, all based on a cheap and outdated group-regulated design. This results in bad voltage regulation for asymmetrical loads, meaning it is not well suited for today's systems which pull most power over the 12V rail. The PSU is the foundation of your system, and right now the foundation is not adequate for the kind of system you're using.

With the way it's cooking the cheap secondary-side capacitors that are meant to filter the output voltage, the voltage ripple can become very high quite quickly, which will stress all the attached hardware. When the capacitors lose their filtering and buffering properties, it puts more stress on the VRM of the attached components, for example the graphics card's VRM. So now it ages faster because it has to make up for the high ripple coming from the PSU. And of course you can start to have instabilities or other weird problems (hint hint). And 80 PLUS White efficiency is too low nowadays, the minimum should be Bronze.

As for the BIOS, update to the v1G then.

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

And you don't think this can be PSU-related? Of course it can be PSU-related. If you want to test this, ask around if you can borrow some other PSU (known good, not too old, decent quality), and connect it using its own cables. But as i said, with a Tier E PSU, i would buy something better right away.

This Deepcool PF model uses a simple so-called Double Forward topology, the secondary side uses only passive rectification, all based on a cheap and outdated group-regulated design. This results in bad voltage regulation for asymmetrical loads, meaning it is not well suited for today's systems which pull most power over the 12V rail. The PSU is the foundation of your system, and right now the foundation is not adequate for the kind of system you're using.

With the way it's cooking the cheap secondary-side capacitors that are meant to filter the output voltage, the voltage ripple can become very high quite quickly, which will stress all the attached hardware. When the capacitors lose their filtering and buffering properties, it puts more stress on the VRM of the attached components, for example the graphics card's VRM. So now it ages faster because it has to make up for the high ripple coming from the PSU. And of course you can start to have instabilities or other weird problems (hint hint). And 80 PLUS White efficiency is too low nowadays, the minimum should be Bronze.

As for the BIOS, update to the v1G then.

Ok but that still doesn't explain why it works fine while I use the pc whole day but won't boot the next morning after I shut it down. If you didn't get the hint money is an issue rn so I really don't wanna buy another psu if this one works fine for now and no I don't have access to another psu I can borrow unfortunately.

As for the bios, the problem started even before updating it to the F version so I don't think it's a bios problem

 

[citay]

Without testing with a different PSU, there will always be a question mark about it. Imagine this: You have a flashlight that doesn't want to turn on if it's too cold. You want to find out the issue with it. But two people have given you a hint you that you seem to be using bad batteries. So, would you keep fiddling with the flashlight, or would you use known good batteries first?

It's a no-brainer to test with a different, known good PSU when you have this kind of problem. If you can't borrow one, you should aim to buy a better model, because this PSU is not good overall anyway. That is the proper way of troubleshooting it, there is no easier way. The lack of budget for it doesn't change that, unfortunately.

If it's about cold solder joints or something like that on the board, you can't really fix it anyway. You'd need about 220°C to melt solder for a reflow, and there's some parts on the board that don't like that kind of heat (especially the plastic bits), plus there's a lot of potential for things to go wrong. Trying to fix a whole motherboard in the oven, the chance for it to not work at all afterwards is too high. So your best chance is to try with a different, better PSU model, since we know it's a bad model anyway.

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

Without testing with a different PSU, there will always be a question mark about it. Imagine this: You have a flashlight that doesn't want to turn on if it's too cold. You want to find out the issue with it. But two people have given you a hint you that you seem to be using bad batteries. So, would you keep fiddling with the flashlight, or would you use known good batteries first?

It's a no-brainer to test with a different, known good PSU when you have this kind of problem. If you can't borrow one, you should aim to buy a better model, because this PSU is not good overall anyway. That is the proper way of troubleshooting it, there is no easier way. The lack of budget for it doesn't change that, unfortunately.

If it's about cold solder joints or something like that on the board, you can't really fix it anyway. You'd need about 220°C to melt solder for a reflow, and there's some parts on the board that don't like that kind of heat (especially the plastic bits), plus there's a lot of potential for things to go wrong. Trying to fix a whole motherboard in the oven, the chance for it to not work at all afterwards is too high. So your best chance is to try with a different, better PSU model, since we know it's a bad model anyway.

Alright I would try a different psu and update you the results in a week or so

As for the motherboard part yep I won't be able to fix that and why should I when I got a warranty for that

 

[claude.jung15ee02eb]

I believe I also got some temperature dependant behaviour.
But in my case it has to do with my cpu.
I'd recommend taking that cpu out, checking the pins just because you can.
And put the cpu back in carefully.
Then thermal paste and the cooler again.
By the way, you could change the Intel ILM for a contact frame.
And you could check your Ram with Memtest86

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

Without testing with a different PSU, there will always be a question mark about it. Imagine this: You have a flashlight that doesn't want to turn on if it's too cold. You want to find out the issue with it. But two people have given you a hint you that you seem to be using bad batteries. So, would you keep fiddling with the flashlight, or would you use known good batteries first?

It's a no-brainer to test with a different, known good PSU when you have this kind of problem. If you can't borrow one, you should aim to buy a better model, because this PSU is not good overall anyway. That is the proper way of troubleshooting it, there is no easier way. The lack of budget for it doesn't change that, unfortunately.

If it's about cold solder joints or something like that on the board, you can't really fix it anyway. You'd need about 220°C to melt solder for a reflow, and there's some parts on the board that don't like that kind of heat (especially the plastic bits), plus there's a lot of potential for things to go wrong. Trying to fix a whole motherboard in the oven, the chance for it to not work at all afterwards is too high. So your best chance is to try with a different, better PSU model, since we know it's a bad model anyway.

Well well well what do you know new psu might've fixed the issue loll. I bought the cooler master mwe bronze v2 650w and I think it actually did solve the issue

One strange thing I've noticed was when I used the 24 pin of the new psu but the CPU 8 pin from the old psu, the mobo debug led lit red with no boot but all the fans turn on so I think the problem was with the old eps connector, it also makes sense cuz as I've said I tested with the paperclip test which doesn't say anything about the CPU connector and I think CPU comes first in the boot sequence so it doesn't post?? Also visually inspecting the old PSU, I've found one capacitor with orange stuff that came out of it and dried on top of the capacitor, attaching a pic below

Anyway I got a second psu now (I'll send it for warranty ofc) and idk what to do with it any ideas?

 

[alokguha768152402d1]

I believe I also got some temperature dependant behaviour.
But in my case it has to do with my cpu.
I'd recommend taking that cpu out, checking the pins just because you can.
And put the cpu back in carefully.
Then thermal paste and the cooler again.
By the way, you could change the Intel ILM for a contact frame.
And you could check your Ram with Memtest86

Nope bought a new PSU it solved the issue