Preparing for a 5080 (as silly as this sounds)

[sunchase1989]

Well. Today, after trying the new Doom, I finally came to a conclusion that it is time to think of upgrading my 2080 Ti (gaming trio, although watercooled). I know I can play with the settings, but with 2080 I had that "smash the settings to max and just play"(I do realize that 5080 doesn't have that much horsepower for MSI's 4k 240Hz monitor... but still).

So now I am thinking to finally make a jump for a 5080 Gaming Trio OC 16gb.

And here is that 12v thing that originally stopped me from buying the 40th series (hoping 50th would be better...HA!).

I do realize that reddit and similarities is a place where 5 people will share their bad experience, while 100, having all working well... most likely will not.
But even so, "for realzies", what are my chances of things going bad? (at least in terms of how much people actually reported MSI 50th series cards going bad).

I will be getting an Alphacool waterblock(or maybe der8auer will release his block... not only for ASUS), but only after a month (plus delivery time, plus finding the spirit of going through the whole process). And see how the 12v (and maybe something else) goes.

First question here would be "the classic".
I have beQuiet's DarkPower 13 Pro(or was it regular non-Pro), which has ATX 3.1. And it's 12v connector. On the other hand, as far as I understand, this card, like all nVidia cards, ships with its own connector.

Second question would be to try and actually address the connector melting problem. I know that 300w is not 600w (the moment I saw it, I said "nope" to the xx90), but still want to think of some security measures against this whole thing (and loose a bit of paranoia while leaving the house with the PC turned on). For what I have on my mind right now are heatsinks for the connector (yes, sounds silly). And maybe some thermal probes (like the ones, used for measuring liquid temp) for the wires and/or connectors.

 

[Nichrome]

Hi

Jump from 2080Ti will be very significant. For another few years you'll play games at max and forget about everything
First question is not a question. Use whatever your PSU came with as it's the new "standard".
Second question, I imagine an extra fan blowing in the plug direction should do the trick. I run a 4090 for over a year myself now, playing various games at 4k, and so far so good.

 

[FlyingScot]

You probably should list your CPU and Motherboard combo. And check if the 5080 is already on the compatibility list for your motherboard. Also look for recent BIOS updates to improve said compatibility. You should also be prepared to have to fight with black screen issues, both at boot time and during game time, if said compatibility is not solid. If you run into any issues like that, keep an eye on the speed of the PCIe slot that gets negotiated at boot time and check for any correlation to observed issues. Use GPU-Z, or other utility to check PCIe speed.

Good luck. You’re about to volunteer to be an unpaid Nvidia beta tester. You will also be contributing to Jensen’s next leather jacket. BTW, if you see smoke, that’s typically a bad sign.

 

[sunchase1989]

Hi

Jump from 2080Ti will be very significant. For another few years you'll play games at max and forget about everything
First question is not a question. Use whatever your PSU came with as it's the new "standard".
Second question, I imagine an extra fan blowing in the plug direction should do the trick. I run a 4090 for over a year myself now, playing various games at 4k, and so far so good.

Hi.
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I can imagine the uplift. Although I must say my 2080Ti can still take a good punch.

On the connector, I am a bit confused here.
I haven't yet directed the question to the relevant support teams of both products, but I think the response will sound like "Ours is better!".

But to really dive into this question. der8auer released not long ago a video related to 5090 FE(if I remember correctly), related to cables. The keynote there was that he managed to capture a behavior with two wires of a 12v connector, for what it would seem, taking a much heavier deadlift, and getting quite hot to the touch. And buildzoid followed on this, accenting on the fact that nVidia did a poor job in balancing the power line.

And here there are two chairs, each of which has that "ours is better". From one side, MSI support will most likely speak that their cable is the right choice (since it has the marking, and this is what was tested by MSI's engineers... I hope). And, if I remember, the tuple cable, which is given, is a 3x100w. Meaning that if the upper problem occurs, and all the 300w (or something really close to it) will fall upon the shoulders of that one 100w, I assume bad things will happen. Although I have been using beQuiet's PSU's for maybe 5 years now, and it has shown itself as a company, which has actually good engineers, I don't know what would be the output of such a scenario - a security measure, by which the psu will shut down. A "one of those videos, where people see what happen if to drastically overload a psu". Or just a wire catching fire...

On the other side. Yes, your suggestion about PSU's cable, made to handle 600w (at least what the product page states) should be the right way to go.

Second question, I imagine an extra fan blowing in the plug direction should do the trick. I run a 4090 for over a year myself now, playing various games at 4k, and so far so good.

I do have a good ventilation (Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 + Noctua fans). Maybe a direct fan would be an approach (or to buy that expensive heat camera).

 

[sunchase1989]

Good luck. You’re about to volunteer to be an unpaid Nvidia beta tester.

I know. The whole idea is pissing me off. And my original intention was to wait until nVidia finally pull their heads from their behinds... and make a product, where I would not worry about such things. The bare idea of having a psu cable burned is bizarre to me, a person, who has been building pc's from the 2000s.

But this is basically the "haha, I live there" gag all over again...
Roccat(RIP), the mouse brand, which I am very fond of, stopped its Leadr mice productions. Why? Because the "gamers" was the buzz word of the time, and "gamers" don't need sophisticated mice with a good and comfortable hand layout and properly placed 12+ buttons. They need rgb and less weight. I tried desperately to find a replacement, and ended up (although it turned out to be Good) an rgb disaster (although managed to turn it off).

Same thing with "gaming" mobos... I have been buying second best to GODLIKE boards, not because I need the RGB and visuals. But because I have come to a conclusion that even MSI puts the best stuff and best pcb design in their top tier products (gaming boards)... and it will actually work with close to zero stress from the moment I start the system.

Even the 2080 was a gamble. I bought it in the period of burning memory and artifacts... *sigh*

You probably should list your CPU and Motherboard combo

A 13900k (yeah, I have been on the "beta tester" team for a while now...), paired with z790 Carbon.

You should also be prepared to have to fight with black screen issues, both at boot time and during game time, if said compatibility is not solid. If you run into any issues like that, keep an eye on the speed of the PCIe slot that gets negotiated at boot time and check for any correlation to observed issues. Use GPU-Z, or other utility to check PCIe speed.

Things like this REALLY make me question my decision about going for the whole 5080 endeavor. People could say "go for AMD". But there are 3 problems here:
1. 9070xt is a 5070+ equivalent. Could be an option... but I have a custom loop system, and after I see that the card is working well, I will be putting a waterblock. And not address the GPU question for at least 3 years... and this is why I want to max out as much as possible (but avoiding the 600w cards... until they stop causing damage).
2. 9070... came with a 12v. Meaning that if there was a 9080/9090, challenging nVidia for the top place, it would most likely have problems. Although I have faith in AMD, I have 9900x in my working system... and I have quite a few things to say about the fact that "memory training" even exists.
3. 7900xtx. This one, although better than 9070 (I think), still falls behind 5080.

 

[FlyingScot]

Hey, I know exactly where you're coming from. If you're an old PC guy like me (my first PC was a Gateway 2000 computer if that shows me age) then you keep getting reminded that all the things you like and find useful (with all technology, not just PCs) is being eliminated more and more as time goes on. "But not to worry. We got a brand new emoji for you with a frowny face to match your mood!" - they say. Well, that's just wonderful, aint it?

Anyway, a 13900K = a nice CPU. And the MSI Carbon series is one of me personal favorites! You might be okay if you wait a little longer for drivers (and the new Nvidia App) to mature. As well as motherboard BIOS updates, where necessary. But I'd definitely not part with that 2080 Ti. I see too many comments from people who bought into the whole RTX5000 thing and sold their old graphics card before it arrived, only to wish they hadn't. If nothing else, it provides a sanity check when you are trying to troubleshoot your rig. It's good to have a known working GPU.

In regards to price and risk of your PC catching fire...well...I think that only increases with time.

 

[sunchase1989]

my first PC was a Gateway 2000 computer if that shows me age

Mine was Pentium 463 (or something), bought when I was 10 or something.

"But not to worry. We got a brand new emoji for you with a frowny face to match your mood!"

I think I will someday actually order t-shirts with phrases like this. The first one being 'Bugs are just opportunities for user engagement'.

But I'd definitely not part with that 2080 Ti

Nah. I passed that age, where I sell the parts I don't use anymore. This one specifically is the first top nVidia card I bought, plus the one I watercooled. At some point I even thought of even putting it in a frame(if I manage to figure out something decent). But definitely not gonna sell it.

PC catching fire...well...I think that only increases with time.

This is a very disturbing thought. This is why I want to somehow get at least an understanding that the cable is becoming hot... without going full in into paranoia and physically checking the cables (I was very nervous for the first week when I moved to watercooling).

 

[sunchase1989]

You might be okay if you wait a little longer for drivers (and the new Nvidia App) to mature. As well as motherboard BIOS updates, where necessary

Well, that is a good suggestion, but I think I was waiting for the same thing when I planning to upgrade my 9900K to 13900K with all that degradation stuff. I believe Intel is still trying to solve it... And even AMD, for whom people pray, did not deliver the polished 7xxx(ie 9xxx) I was expecting for(the system is good, but I did have quite a few problems with it, and I don't believe all of them are originated by Linux).

So I'm gonna go for it in a few weeks (I've heard they wants money for them video cards ).

If you're an old PC guy like me (my first PC was a Gateway 2000 computer if that shows me age) then you keep getting reminded that all the things you like and find useful (with all technology, not just PCs) is being eliminated more and more as time goes on

I am getting the impression that not only the things are getting eliminated, but the sheer quality and expectations of things to work smooth are becoming a rarity, being replaced by statements like (this one caused me to laugh hysterically) 'a 12v connector can only be plugged 20-30 times'(I think it was der8auer quoting the vendors on the 50s series problem). And yes, it should be replaced after...

And people still picture some bright technically advanced future...

 

[FlyingScot]

I was reading your response and had a crazy idea come to me. Since you like to employ water blocks...and you are concerned about hot connectors getting a little too hot...then maybe I can interest you in a prototype Custom Water Loop with built in sprinkler system. I mean, why not capitalize on the fact that water loops spring leaks. I see a huge potential market for my new invention. You could be my first customer!

 

[sunchase1989]

built in sprinkler system

Not sure if you're joking. If not... what do you mean?

 

[xrodne152202d4]

I know. The whole idea is pissing me off. And my original intention was to wait until nVidia finally pull their heads from their behinds... and make a product, where I would not worry about such things. The bare idea of having a psu cable burned is bizarre to me, a person, who has been building pc's from the 2000s.

But this is basically the "haha, I live there" gag all over again...
Roccat(RIP), the mouse brand, which I am very fond of, stopped its Leadr mice productions. Why? Because the "gamers" was the buzz word of the time, and "gamers" don't need sophisticated mice with a good and comfortable hand layout and properly placed 12+ buttons. They need rgb and less weight. I tried desperately to find a replacement, and ended up (although it turned out to be Good) an rgb disaster (although managed to turn it off).

Same thing with "gaming" mobos... I have been buying second best to GODLIKE boards, not because I need the RGB and visuals. But because I have come to a conclusion that even MSI puts the best stuff and best pcb design in their top tier products (gaming boards)... and it will actually work with close to zero stress from the moment I start the system.

Even the 2080 was a gamble. I bought it in the period of burning memory and artifacts... *sigh*


A 13900k (yeah, I have been on the "beta tester" team for a while now...), paired with z790 Carbon.


Things like this REALLY make me question my decision about going for the whole 5080 endeavor. People could say "go for AMD". But there are 3 problems here:
1. 9070xt is a 5070+ equivalent. Could be an option... but I have a custom loop system, and after I see that the card is working well, I will be putting a waterblock. And not address the GPU question for at least 3 years... and this is why I want to max out as much as possible (but avoiding the 600w cards... until they stop causing damage).
2. 9070... came with a 12v. Meaning that if there was a 9080/9090, challenging nVidia for the top place, it would most likely have problems. Although I have faith in AMD, I have 9900x in my working system... and I have quite a few things to say about the fact that "memory training" even exists.
3. 7900xtx. This one, although better than 9070 (I think), still falls behind 5080.

There are only two models as far as i know that use 12Vx6 and that Saphire nitro+ and Asrock Taichi, other use normal 8pin. Contrary to Nvidia its up to OEMs which connector to use.
Not sure about Taichi, but as far as I could see from PCB pictures Saphire unfortunately used same stupid design that connect all 6 wires to single powerplane.

7900xtx is in some games up 10% faster than 9070 xt, but in others its same or its even 5% slower. Advantage of 7090 xt is FSR 4 and much higher RT performance.

 

[FlyingScot]

Not sure if you're joking. If not... what do you mean?

Sorry about that. It must have been lost in translation. Perhaps I better use a visual image for my joke. The solution to the 12VHPWR connector inside a PC is…a custom water loop with a few miniaturized in-line

 

[sunchase1989]

Perhaps I better use a visual image for my joke

Hehe. I do like the idea.

 

[sunchase1989]

7900xtx is in some games up 10% faster than 9070 xt, but in others its same or its even 5% slower. Advantage of 7090 xt is FSR 4 and much higher RT performance.

If AMD would've made a 9070xtx... Then I think I would go for it over 5080 with much less doubt. I do understand what AMD is trying to achieve by not overextending on the top tier, but more warming up the general crowd in the direction of AMD. But my goal is to buy a card, which I will not be upgrading anytime soon, plus slapping on a 200USD+ waterblock.

But even so, I am still a bit in a doubt.

 

[FlyingScot]

If AMD would've made a 9070xtx... Then I think I would go for it over 5080 with much less doubt. I do understand what AMD is trying to achieve by not overextending on the top tier, but more warming up the general crowd in the direction of AMD. But my goal is to buy a card, which I will not be upgrading anytime soon, plus slapping on a 200USD+ waterblock.

But even so, I am still a bit in a doubt.

I am starting to see rumors and leaks that the next gen AMD will once again compete above the Nvidia 5080 class, which would be very enticing. But that doesn’t help you out now if you are in the market for a new graphics card.

All the research I have done, including emails to Seasonic, does not make me any more comfortable with the new 12V-2x6 connectors and cables. The whole topic is steeped in mystery and very few people in the industry appear to have a firm grasp on what is and is not different about the 12V-2x6 cables. I actually think JayZ did the best presentation on what has changed since the 12VHPWR cables first hit the market. And Buildzoid did the best presentation on what has changed on the PCB side since the RTX 3090 Ti. Everyone else, including the manufacturer reps, don’t really seem to have a clue, which is probably by design.

With the first reported failure of MSI’s rather novel yellow plastic approach, it would seem that all attempts at possible fixes to this botched connector standard have failed to instill any additional level of confidence. It might be time that the electrical industry standards for plugs and wiring start being applied to PC inwards. I don’t think we can trust the PC component manufacturers anymore.

Anyway, my own personal thinking on what to do currently rests with perhaps buying the RTX5070 Ti (with its reduced power demand), leaving it stock, and then trying to ride out the storm. I could easily see the industry expecting us to upgrade our PSUs (yet again) before this saga is over.

 

[sunchase1989]

I am starting to see rumors and leaks that the next gen AMD will once again compete above the Nvidia 5080 class, which would be very enticing. But that doesn’t help you out now if you are in the market for a new graphics card.

Well, this is the usual la comedy. When the 40th series was coming out, I was thinking of going a 4090. Saw the cable problem and thought that I will be skipping... and waiting for the 50th series to fix things (badum tss). When I saw 5090 and heard that it would have liquid metal... I started to think that its either really good, or liquid metal was the only thing nVidia came up with to keep it cool.

Of course, once I get a 5080, in a few month AMD will announce...

But the sad part here is... there's always something new at the bucket of what could go wrong. x3d chips getting fried, chip degradation, connectors melting, memory burning, black screens...

The whole topic is steeped in mystery and very few people in the industry appear to have a firm grasp on what is and is not different about the 12V-2x6 cables.

I remember 'one of them' explained that the new 12v is just a better constructed connector, which is aimed to prevent bad sitting cables by decreasing the length of some internal elements. And nothing else.

Buildzoid did the best presentation on what has changed on the PCB side since the RTX 3090 Ti

Yeah, I remember that video.

Anyway, my own personal thinking on what to do currently rests with perhaps buying the RTX5070 Ti (with its reduced power demand), leaving it stock, and then trying to ride out the storm

Well, this is basically what I'm doing, but with a 5080. Not sure though in terms of Trio OC or regular... but same thing - not gonna increase the power limit, or think of overclocking.

 

[FlyingScot]

But the sad part here is... there's always something new at the bucket of what could go wrong. x3d chips getting fried, chip degradation, connectors melting, memory burning, black screens..

Yep. There really is an absence of good news these days. But I know some people would argue that only a relatively small group of people will have problems with what is reported in the news. This is probably true. But I always think to myself that statistics mean little to a person who is affected. And the other thought I have is that we need to always be mindful that we as consumers have tremendous influence over those who make our products and provide our services. We should be careful not to reward a company that shows indifference to their customers, whether the problem is widespread or not. Simply putting a customer at risk of having a bad experience is intolerable behavior if it is not addressed in a diligent manner. In every abusive relationship one usually finds an enabler. That’s the psychological side of this technological issue.

Luckily for me, I only play games that run well on my RTX3080. That means no UE5 games for me!

 

[sunchase1989]

Luckily for me, I only play games that run well on my RTX3080

DOOM was my breaking point. I said meh to Portal 2 RTX, to HL2 RTX... even Path of Exile 2, although giving a decent performance, was one of those "pre-last straws".

We should be careful not to reward a company that shows indifference to their customers, whether the problem is widespread or not.

Yes. I agree on this. But... for one "you or me", there will be at least 20 "gamers", who were raised in an environment of "if something breaks, or simply gets obsolete - throw it away and buy a new one". The perfect consumer. So this approach will most likely will continue (bloggers will continue to scream how good the totally-not-prepaid product is, and people will buy).

JayZ posted a video the other day about a dude, who had a 14900ks, 128 gb of ram, a RAID... and never heard of the 13/14th gen problems. Which is either a BS (a video for jay, a new cpu for the guy...), or actually a today's reality.

 

[FlyingScot]

DOOM was my breaking point. I said meh to Portal 2 RTX, to HL2 RTX... even Path of Exile 2, although giving a decent performance, was one of those "pre-last straws".

I still think DOOM 2016 was the best gameplay. Buttery smooth on my GTX970 at 1080P, max settings! I still have that 2014 MSI card and it still runs great. Best looking, zero coil whine, no cooling issues, built like a proverbial tank! Now, one could argue that Doom 3 was the purest form of Doom, which the movie with The Rock tried to recreate on the big screen.

In regards to RTX, I can live without it. Although, the Metro Exodus team showed us how to implement it without making your coils whine, your power supply smoke, and your CPU melt!

Yes. I agree on this. But... for one "you or me", there will be at least 20 "gamers", who were raised in an environment of "if something breaks, or simply gets obsolete - throw it away and buy a new one". The perfect consumer. So this approach will most likely will continue (bloggers will continue to scream how good the totally-not-prepaid product is, and people will buy).

I know. Thinking like I/we do puts me/us in the minority group. People seem to always be in such a frenze to buy the latest $3000 hardware or the latest $100 game. Oh well. I remain a budget PC guy until me dying days. Heck, I still have games from 10 years ago sitting on the virtual shelf. I'll just play those when I can no longer justify new hardware. Many of those older games still outshine the UE5 games, anyway.

JayZ posted a video the other day about a dude, who had a 14900ks, 128 gb of ram, a RAID... and never heard of the 13/14th gen problems. Which is either a BS (a video for jay, a new cpu for the guy...), or actually a today's reality.

No, I believe it. It's easy to miss these things unless you enjoy reading tech news. I read the tech news every morning and have done so for five years. But I can't see many people doing that. Incidentally, that's why I created this MSI forum post https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?...a-reports-of-serious-stability-issues.399834/ to try and get the word out. I see that 72,000 people have seen it. That's amazing. But Citay still holds the record at 156,000 for his RPL tuning post.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/guide-how-to-set-good-power-limits-in-the-bios-and-reduce-the-cpu-power-draw.400270/

He should have charged $1 or 1 Euro per view. He'd have himself a nice little pile of money by now!

 

[sunchase1989]

I still think DOOM 2016 was the best gameplay

I'm more for the story. I do remember Doom 3, but that one, although played the whole thing, didn't really shine.

But the funny thing about the 2016 version is that you can launch it on a Steamdeck with actually good graphics.

In regards to RTX, I can live without it.

From one side, yes, wasn't interested in it when it just came out, nor am I really interested now. But would like to play again Portal 2 with something visually new. And not that I see the original Portal 2 as obsolete... I mostly play 2-3 games - Team Fortress 2, Path of Exile 1 and 2.

No, I believe it. It's easy to miss these things unless you enjoy reading tech news

I mostly catch up with interesting stuff from YT. And if there a problem, or maybe I'm not sure about something, I usually end up creating one of such threads, like this one.

But maybe you are right. Although I find it strange going for latest tech, and not really be interested in tech news.

Although I haven't touched oc menu apart from pl1/2, and iccmax, according to a reddit post, I will give that page a read.