PSU's---2 x 12v---The Dual Rail Myth

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FastEddie

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The Dual Rail Myth

In looking at the newest ATX standard, the ATX12VPower Supply Design Guide, ver 2.01, we find two major changes from the past in that 2 x 12v rails are now advocated, rather than a single 12v rail, in addition to a 24-pin main ATX power connector interface.  How does this dynamically impacts us AMD users?  First, let?s look at some of the changes made from the ATX 1.3 standard and see how they impact us, as power users.

The most important change is the incorporation of 2 x 12v rails, or ?Dual Rail,? technology, where the processor now has basically its very own power interface that is separated from all other power consuming devices on the motherboard.  A Quote from Section 1.2.1, entitled ?Increased +12VDC Output Capability? of the Guide:

?System components that use 12V are continuing to increase in power. In cases where
expected current requirements is greater than 18A a second 12 V rail should be made
available. ATX12V power supplies should be designed to accommodate these increased
+12 VDC currents.?

This may sound like a good thing, and I?m sure that one day it will be a major improvement over past power supply interfaces, however, as an AMD user, the major drawback is that this newest standard (being designed around, and in support of, Intel based technology), took no consideration of AMD/Sli.  ?Our? problem isn?t that AUX ATX 12v Rail-1 is isolated with anywhere from 15amps to 18amps of power for the processor alone, but that the remainder of the entire system must depend upon ATX 12v Rail-2, with it?s 15amps to 18amps, to power all the other devices on the motherboard.  This is a lopsided balance of power in regulating and controlling devices in the average computer system, and becomes more than simple balancing act when this ?design? becomes the limiting factor for system stability in our high powered enthusiast systems.

What?s added to ATX 12v Rail-2 that makes system stability an ?issue? is related to the plethora of new technologies that must all be powered by this single rail.  Aside from SATA/SATA II, standard PCI, in addition to all ?onboard? peripheral interface devices such as multiple gig-lan network connections, multiple (up to ten) USB 2.0 connections, IEEE 1394 interfaces, standard serial/parallel port interfaces, legacy IDE interfaces and audio functions, the ?Guide? takes into consideration a new power hungry interface, being PCI-E, that consumes anywhere from 40watts to 120 watts of power in a single card.  The cpu no longer has the distinction of being the highest power consumer in a computer system, when one considers the amount of power a 6800 Ultra needs to operate properly.  This is a vast amount of power to take into consideration when building a new computer system, and one in which is compounded two fold with the release of nForce 4 SLI, where two such power hungry graphic adapters can coexist in the same system.

Many of you have followed the Dual Rail ?vs- Single Rail argument as it?s been played out in the implementation of NF4 Sli, where I have maintained that dual rail psu?s, as they exist today, are not an efficient use of the power resources these power supplies provide.  Where AUX ATX 12v Rail-1 (for the processor) would run at approximately 35%-50% of it?s available output 60%-70% of the time,  ATX 12v Rail-2 would run at or near 100% of its available output 100% of the time.  Power Supplies are not designed to work under these conditions and it seems that the ?Guide? agrees and has taken this into consideration, where at Sec. 1.2.2. Minimum Efficiency, it points out:

?Minimum measured efficiency is required to be 70% at full and typical (~50%) load and
60% at light (~20%) load. New recommended guidance has been added to provide
direction for future requirements.?

What this tells us is that, indeed, ATX 12v Rail-2 shouldn?t be required to run at more than 70% MAX of it?s available output on a constant ?full and typical? basis.  And it means that Dual Rail psu?s are not the best choice for powering nForce 4 Sli as these power supplies weren?t designed to work in such a lopsided environment.  It is much more efficient to use a high output Single Rail psu with at lease 26a on that 12v rail, where 28a for the Sli dual 6800 Ultra?s is a much more stable environment to run these top of the line cards.  And for those that say, ?well these boards were designed around the ATX 2.01 standard, so they should work just fine,? my answer is that they weren?t ?designed? around NF4 Sli by nature of the limitations the ?Guide? itself places on that second 12v rail.  Another response regards accumulation of the two 12v rails, where 18a & 18a = 36a and plenty to power any motherboard.  My response is this is a total misconception as these power supplies have no ability what-so-ever to accumulate their output current from the two totally separate rails on the fly.  Sure, there are one or two psu?s that do have the ability to combine their output, via a switch, but that ?switch? turns them into essentially a more powerful single rail unit, with less amperage than the total of both 12v rails. Until a psu is designed for Sli, don?t be drawn into the marketing hype about ?Sli Ready? and ?Sli Capable? as their use goes contrary to the very guide that implements them.  You would be much better served with a single rail power supply that can ?efficiently? power that Sli gamers box.  :cool:


 
The main tricks used by (many) power supply manufacturers:

1) advertising the peak wattage, rather than the nominal wattage
2) determining the wattage at unrealistically low temperatures (< 40C)
3) advertising total wattage as a measure of capacity, when modern systems are almost totally reliant
on the number of amps on the 12V line(s).

:grin:
 
I stumbled upon this and found it interesting:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22898&vpn=DA750&manufacture=Silverstone%20Technology



 

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Hahahaha, first they tell everybody a splitrail is the next generation.
We told everybody they where wrong, even had some fights over this in the forum, heck even in this topic.
Now they are telling everybody single rail is the next generation, but in reality single rail is the "old school" :lol_anim:

The marketing spin doctors at work....anyway....we where right from the beginning and Intel was/is wrong...whoehaaa :lol_anim:
 
Bas said:
@RemusM,

I would not put a Q-Tec in my office when I get it for free.
A UK magazine tested the 600W to see how good it was, it ate a well over 1000W to deliver it, sort of, but then to spring the 16A surge protector....
I wonder what would have happened if it did cut the power.
The testing magazine was http://www.pcper.com/

Can't find the article right now, but no way on earth I will ever use Q-Tec junk.
A noname cheap PSU is more trustworthy ;)

I remember showing you that article, you can see the Q-Tec review here:
http://www.custompc.co.uk/labs/79286/q-tec-650w-triple-fan-24p.html

They also reviewed a 'Generic 600w' model too: :lol_anim:
http://www.custompc.co.uk/labs/79283/generic-600w.html
 
Removed my kinda "dodgy" Dynamo Pro "600-watter" and bought the Corsair CMPSU-450VX because of this rave review: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/540  :agrees: Unlike most generic, no-name power supplies this PSU is actually under-rated. :idea: It's supposedly "only" a 450W w/ a +12V@33A rail, but it was tested to be capable of ~570W and +12V@44A!  :biggthumbsup: Combined with a reasonable price, all Japanese-made capacitors spec'ed to 105?C, single +12V rail, non-modular cable design, and ripple-noise lower than the higher end HX- & TX-series, this PSU is a real gem. :worship: Heck, even the black case screws, plastic cable ties and case badge included in the box all exude high-quality...  :emot-tip-wink:
 
mentat said:
Removed my kinda "dodgy" Dynamo Pro "600-watter" and bought the Corsair CMPSU-450VX because of this rave review: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/540  :agrees: Unlike most generic, no-name power supplies this PSU is actually under-rated. :idea: It's supposedly "only" a 450W w/ a +12V@33A rail, but it was tested to be capable of ~570W and +12V@44A!  :biggthumbsup: Combined with a reasonable price, all Japanese-made capacitors spec'ed to 105?C, single +12V rail, non-modular cable design, and ripple-noise lower than the higher end HX- & TX-series, this PSU is a real gem. :worship: Heck, even the black case screws, plastic cable ties and case badge included in the box all exude high-quality...  :emot-tip-wink:

It's Corsair. ;) They have the design and quality levels of PC Power & Cooling in my opinion. They rate the max output in normal operating temperatures (~50c) compared to most manufactures who rate their PSUs at peak wattage.
 
This is a bit of off topic, but particularly bottom p 2 is interesting:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article834-page2.html
 
Found this on www.hardwaresecrets.com:

"This power supply uses a single rail design, so there is not much to say here. Antec EarthWatts 500 W, which is basically the same power supply with a different housing, uses a dual-rail design. The difference between the two is only how the OCP (over current protection) circuit is connected. On this power supply this circuit is monitoring all +12 V outputs at the same time, while on the model from Antec this circuit is monitoring two different sets of wires."
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/540/5
 
Just like the hundreds of memory issues, the PSU issues continue to be suspects in a lot of the technical queries related to motherboardsand Graphics cards. It has actually become a very confusing market for the general user ever since high power PSUs became an issue due to the inreased power demands of the "high" end home PC, and when I say "high power" PSU, I mean more than 500W. Doesn't sound that much but when one talks about half a kilowatt, only then does one realise what little power stations our everyday computers need. So the manufacturers started the novel idea of seperate 12V rails for stability and to prevent spiking and surges. And this is where the normal customer who actually has limited knowledge, (hopefully) looks at the amps and sees e.g. 41 Amps or 500W total on 12 V. The fine print though will clearly show that possibly 18A per rail is the max, meaning that utilising 2 of those rails limits the PSU to 36A for the GPU alone if two 12V rails are used. Thus the user has 4 12V rails, each capable of 18A individually, but as soon as he maxes two rails, in reality he has 5Amps left for the other 2 rails.
A similar single rail PSU would probably provide 50Amp or more on a single 12V output. Yes its all shared, but at least the "Juice" doesn't run out as early.
Admitted, they both have their advantages and disadvantages, but when we get to power delivery, the one advantage of the total amps available on 12V in my opinion outweighs the others. This does not go without saying that the customer should still do his homework in terms of stability and efficiency.

I sometimes wonder how many system instabilities are really caused by a lack of power or even unstable power delivery. Yes, we all expect those wonderful power circuits on the boards to manage a stable power delivery, but we seem to forget that any component/circuit, even on the best boards have their input limits. Hopefully the system will shutdown when the input is outside the limits, but how may times do we expect these circuits to protect the rest of the components, before they themselves have had enough? Even worse, I wonder how many boards have been RMA'd because of damage done to them due to power supplies that are just not up to scratch, and the manufacturers assume responsibility for component failures caused by the PSU without having any proof.

I always read with interest the hardware reviews with regards to PSUs and especially those where the tester actually ensures that the unit is tested to its claimed maximums to establish the real values and stabilities. It is actually frightning how many of the so called "better" supplies fail or are just inside the margins. One has to feel sorry for people that actually buy pre-assembled units which are built into a case that already contain a "No Name" 250W or 350W PSU.I still remember my first Intel machine that I bought in similar fashion, and later I upgraded and found that the 12V rail would actually fluctuate from 11,2 up to 12,3V.

It's amazing how much money people are prepared to fork out for high end boards, CPUs and GPUs and then save a couple of dollars on the PSU. It is not dissimilar to someone buying a super car, e.g. Ferrari or Lamborghini and then filling it up with regular unleaded.
My only wish is that people would pay more attention to buying the correct driving force behind the high tech components that they envisage to power with whatever PSU they choose. But then again, I suppose most forums are reactionary instead of being a place where ordinary people would enquire before buying and mixing and matching. 




 
ZSDE, I don' know if you've noticed but there are some of us here who will let someone know right off when we spot a questionable PSU in their specs but often as not they will reply with something like: "It works so don't tell me it's no good". These are sometimes people with over $1000 invested and then put in a crappy $25 PSU.
 
For the fun of it a 1050W Powersupply "splitrail" see how marketeers fool people REAL BAD!

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=187

Enjoy as I laughed my head off :lol_anim:
 
Henry, to laugh even harder:

http://www.diablotek.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58&Itemid=72

About Us

aboutus

Founded in 2003, Diablotek. is one of the nation's most recognized Power Supply and component Manufacturers and has relationships with all of the top computer component companies in the world including Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, ATI, and many more. Diablotek builds some of the most highly regarded computing solutions in the industry for demanding customers who need the highest performance machines with the most reliable components.

Diablotek's years of experience focused in Thermal IT and cutting edge power conversion technology has provided timely and professional solutions to meet and exceed many of the ever growing IT industry's and consumer requirements.

With our comprehensive line of products available today, it enables Diablotek's customers to enjoy the power to do more in a one-stop-shop experience. Each one of Diablotek's strengths enables its customer to focus on their core business while taking advantage of the skills and efficiency of a cutting edge technology making diablotek your first choice solution partner.

Hahaha, their building doesn't even have their own brandname on it and their domain registration has a HOTMAIL address :rofl2:
You are right, it must be Q-tec rebranded junk.
 
Take a look at the video cards they claim to sell. They picture a fairly recent one but click on the link and the 3 they have are ancient, The RAGE 128 PRO 32MB, RAGE XL 8MB, Radeon 7500 64MB :worship: the Gods of antiquity. ;D
 
:deadlaugh:  something "split" alright in that psu review from Johnnyguru

I guess if your a fan of its aesthetics, you could always use it as a paper weight  :lol_anim:

:emot-tip-wink:
 
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