Raptor Lake Settings Survey and Spreadsheet "Database"

[FlyingScot]

Welcome to the Raptor Lake Settings Survey and Spreadsheet "Database"

While no two systems (or CPUs) are the same, it is my hope that you will find this centralized information useful when comparing your own specific setup to those who have the same CPU - and maybe similar hardware. In addition to this objective, I have also provided an opportunity for Raptor Lake owners to periodically submit additional entries to the survey database when anything changes. If degradation becomes more of a widespread issue than originally anticipated then these periodic "field reports" should allow us to see these trends as they unfold.

Instructions for Survey Submissions
Once you're satisfied with your system's stability and performance, please follow the instructions below to prepare for your first submission to the survey database.

Please download the attached Survey Guide.pdf. This guide has been designed to give each survey respondent a chance to gather all the relevant information ahead of time. This is an important step. The last two pages of the guide describes how you can make immediate use of the survey results, either before or after you complete your online entry.

In addition to the many questions in the survey, you will find a section (Section 2) that asks for performance related data. I have selected Cinebench R23 for this purpose. However, Cinebench R23 is only one small snapshot of performance and I realize will not necessarily be indicative of gaming performance, etc. In fact, as our recent testing has demonstrated, some "undervolting approaches" are much better suited to all-core CPU workloads (like Cinebench R23) than those favoring lighter, non all-core workloads, such as gaming.

[1] Use this link to access the Online Survey
NOTE: Survey responses cannot be edited once they are submitted. However, I can still assist you in making changes (see NOTEs below). Survey responses can also be deleted (by me) if you wish.
Please don’t forget to enter your Forum name (if you’re a member) to help others link you to your settings. But for privacy reasons, please don’t use your real name or email address, etc.

[2] Use this link to access the Online Spreadsheet "database".
NOTE: Pink cells indicate data that I have corrected on behalf of the respondents.
NOTE: To read extra long “User Comments”, double-click on them to pop up a scrollable box.

[3] The analytics webpage <<coming soon>>

If you are very new to the topic of Raptor Lake tuning then my guide might help you get started.
Guide: "Almost" everything you need to know about Raptor Lake Voltage/Power/Temperature Tuning

If you’re already quite comfortable with undervolting via the Intel Loadline settings (LLC, AC_LL, DC_LL) then you should find Vassil_V’s case study quite interesting.
Different undervolting methods with IA CEP enabled, and how they compare to Lite Load
You will also find his latest “favorite" settings in the Survey database.

 

[FlyingScot]

@FlyingScot,

Just submitted another result from my other thread.

Made note regarding room temperature.

As you know, I had my radiators drawing in ~0°C air from outside, so while I entered 15 (since that was the lowest option), that is really not applicable to my situation.

Thanks

I just looked at your new entry. Wow! You get A+ for effort and A for results! I think your comment in the survey entry, coupled with the 15 room temp, should be self-explanatory. But what do you think of me adding a link to your recent post via one of the URL options.

 

[Arctucas]

I just looked at your new entry. Wow! You get A+ for effort and A for results! I think your comment in the survey entry, coupled with the 15 room temp, should be self-explanatory. But what do you think of me adding a link to your recent post via one of the URL options.

Sure, link away!

 

[FlyingScot]

Sure, link away!

Done!

 

[FlyingScot]

Sure, link away!

Arctucas, you should consider uploading some pictures of your system and a description of your new radiator arrangement as a post below your results post.

 

[Arctucas]

Arctucas, you should consider uploading some pictures of your system and a description of your new radiator arrangement as a post below your results post.

My rad setup: https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/made-a-chassis-for-my-rads.405925/. Three Black Ice Nemesis GTR560 rads, total of 24 Noctua IPPC 140mm fans and grilles, three Noctua NA-FH1 fan controllers. Enclosed in 2020 aluminum extrusion 'chassis'. Tubing is 1/2 inch Tygon A60G, quick disconnects are Koolance QDC-4, other fittings are Bitspower 1/2 barb, Koolance spring clamps, Molex Mini-Fit Jr., SATA, and PWM fan wiring connectors, 20/15 power cable, 28/12 control cable from PSU, 20/5 power and 28/4 fan control cables on rad assembly.

I am in process of an upgrade, new custom PC chassis and expanded loop, currently gathering parts.

Give me a couple weeks.


*Did an edit to add other wiring I forgot about.*

 

[FlyingScot]

Are you sure you're not related to this guy???

Dr. Emmett Brown

 

[Arctucas]

Are you sure you're not related to this guy???

View attachment 195513
Dr. Emmett Brown

How did you know?

Anyway, no, just a hobby. I like to tinker.

 

[jamiesaun85]

@FlyingScot you might want to take mine down. I just crashed so bad it took me multiple attempts just to get back into the BIOS. Out of nowhere on r15.

Im really starting to not like r15 very much, actually. Its the only one that ever causes errors.

 

[jamiesaun85]

My rad setup: https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/made-a-chassis-for-my-rads.405925/.

LOL. Well, that explains a lot actually.

 

[FlyingScot]

LOL. Well, that explains a lot actually.

Yep. Don't ever try to keep up with the MASTER OF COOL!

Are you serious about wanting to erase your entry?

 

[jamiesaun85]

Yep. Don't ever try to keep up with the master of COOL!

Are you serious about wanting to erase your entry?

Yeah for sure. Or leave them up if ya want, it doesn't matter to me at all. I guess I figured it was sort of expected, if that makes sense. But now that I think of it, nobody should really be overclocking, applying someone else's settings and then be surprised if it crashes, right? So I suppose nevermind then, go ahead and leave them.

I definitely will not be running them again, that was a bad crash. Or maybe it's been too long and I forgot what serious crashing looks like. Anyway, I have a completely different listing now that passes even r15, and scores about 2-300 higher on r23. But this time I'll give it a little longer before I post them.

 

[FlyingScot]

LOL. Well, that explains a lot actually.

If you really want to beat Arctucas, you've got to go big!

 

[jamiesaun85]

Still a neophyte, these are all still just thoughts from another guy who doesn't really understand this stuff. But as mentioned before, we don't have to understand it. Just keep an eye on the voltage and the temps. Turn one knob at a time. You'll get there eventually. Any thoughts, corrections or rebukes are eagerly welcomed.

Well, That took a lot longer than I thought, It always does. I believe the short answer is there really aren't any "right settings." But there are definitely a whole bunch of wrong ones. Tried a million different things, the ones that worked all led to more or less the same spot. I think the only real question to establish before starting is: "do you want the adaptive, favored cores boosting higher when prudent stuff; or, do you want a more simple bulldozer approach, no pun intended.

I personally am going to let the turbo boost 3 crap do its thing, all though I think the benefits are dubious at best. I cannot tell a difference is scoring, or daily tasks. But I love technology, so I'm going to be using all of it.

I wont be going passed 6ghz. Its easy enough to do, but I don't believe the trade off is worth it. The juice ain't worth the squeeze.

Ill post my final configuration momentarily.

 

[FlyingScot]

Well, That took a lot longer than I thought, It always does. I believe the short answer is there really aren't any "right settings." But there are definitely a whole bunch of wrong ones. Tried a million different things, the ones that worked all led to more or less the same spot. I think the only real question to establish before starting is:

"do you want the adaptive, favored cores boosting higher when prudent stuff; or, do you want a more simple bulldozer approach, no pun intended.

Yep! That about sums it up. If you have cooling limitations, which most of us do, and you don't get a "golden sample" when it comes to the "silicon lottery" then you do often end up at the same place, i.e. both temperature and Core Frequency limited. Shaving off a lot of initial voltage overhead can be relatively quick and painful, but that last 20% can be very elusive or even non-existent depending upon Intel's original choice of VID tables for your particular CPU. And, apparently, the factory VID voltages are often not a reliable indicator of silicon quality. For example, some CPUs have way too much voltage overhead from the factory, making them excellent undervolters. Others can have lower factory voltages but end up being poor overclockers. So, there's no direct and consistent correlation between factory voltage and silicon quality, which is very counterintuitive.

I think the only real question to establish before starting is: "do you want the adaptive, favored cores boosting higher when prudent stuff; or, do you want a more simple bulldozer approach, no pun intended.

I think I would also add that the particular settings you end up favoring might be heavily influenced by the applications you plan to run. Even so, the difference between one approach and another might be just a few mV or so. When it came to the early days of the Raptor Lake degradation story, it seemed appropriate to shave off every 10mV you could. That might be less important now that we have tools such as the CPU VR Voltage Limit.

I personally am going to let the turbo boost 3 crap do its thing, all though I think the benefits are dubious at best. I cannot tell a difference is scoring, or daily tasks. But I love technology, so I'm going to be using all of it.

Yeah, others have also noted that in many usage scenarios, including games, the extra boosting of single and dual core frequencies is often very limited in its impact. It's likely one of those Intel marketing things - a bit like Nvidia's new DLSS 4.0 "fake frames" being better than DLSS 3.0 "fake frames"

I wont be going passed 6ghz. Its easy enough to do, but I don't believe the trade off is worth it. The juice ain't worth the squeeze.

Probably a good idea; it really helps to keep those peak voltages down, especially given Raptor Lake's degradation history.

Ill post my final configuration momentarily.

Looking forward to your findings!!!

 

[jamiesaun85]

Agreed. That last little bit just isn't worth it, unless overclocking is your thing. Then who cares if you burn it? Its a hobby, that's the name of the game. It definitely is a bobby for me, but i still don't wanna burn it.

I really should have closed icue and killed all background apps for this. I don't do that anymore so i forgot all about it. icue is pretty consistently good for another 500 points too. Its pretty crappy software, actually. Plus i hate rgb stuff. All that is turned off.

 

[FlyingScot]

I just checked your new entry to the Raptor Lake Database. Wow. Very impressive! It looks like you just about threw the kitchen sink at it, combining almost every tweak known to mankind! I hope you don't mind, but I added your above R23 results as a URL link to your entry. That should give people some useful context. You definitely worked harder at it than most people have patience for. Interesting choice of LLC. What made you settle on the old level 3, like Arctucas runs with? I also have an old Comet Lake system running LLC3. It's rock solid!

Any other noteworthy pointers for people following in your footsteps, especially if they have the i9 14900K? I assume you're happy with the stability... If you run into any issues, please keep us posted. Incidentally, what are you running for these voltages? I think they can be impactful on CPU thermals and stability:
CPU SA Voltage [VCCSA]
CPU VDDQ / CPU VDD2

EDIT: BTW, you're rocking a pretty high room temperature - especially for this time of year. Unless of course you live in the Outback! Who knows. You might have been able to do even better with a 19C temp like my PC room.

 

[jamiesaun85]

I just checked your new entry to the Raptor Lake Database. Wow. Very impressive! It looks like you just about through the kitchen sink at it, combining almost every tweak known to mankind! I hope you don't mind, but I added your above R23 results as a URL link to your entry. That should give people some useful context. You definitely worked harder at it than most people have patience for. Interesting choice of LLC. What made you settle on the old level 3, like Arctucas runs with? I also have an old Comet Lake system running LLC3. It's rock solid!

Any other noteworthy pointers for people following in your footsteps, especially if they have the i9 14900K? I assume you're happy with the stability... If you run into any issues, please keep us posted. Incidentally, what are you running for these voltages? I think they can be impactful on CPU thermals and stability:
CPU SA Voltage [VCCSA]
CPU VDDQ / CPU VDD2

Thank you, and no, I dont mind at all. There are a few other things to do to get it even higher, the v/f curve points Being the most promising. And i did go down that route too, I have a config saved for it. But i was getting the best results enabling vf curves, then just leaving them on auto. Someone more skilled could easily squeeze more performance out of it that way though.

Stability is perfect so far. The best way to check for that is R15 and R15 extreme, just a few runs is fine, and then anything that builds caches. ffmpeg is also an excellent way to check stability. A video conversion program that uses the cpu only, (through ffmpeg.) Or you can use the command prompt or powershell and use ffmpeg directly. I'm thoroughly convinced this thing is rock solid. But yes, if I crash I will absolutely report back. R23 is not a good way at all. Its a great benchmark tool, bad stability checker. I'd smoke R23 and then crash 3 times in a row just building the shader cache on basically any game that does that. I'm not much of a gamer so I'm not even sure exactly what that is. But Wukong benchmark tool is a great one. Its free through Steam. Then go to the appdata/Nvidia files, clear the cache and check it again. Resident evil 4, God Of War, and Requiem would all crash my system consistently if the settings weren't right.

I use LLC 3 because its the best way to compensate for an offset of around 100mv or more. Its all a balancing act and every setting affects all the other settings. So what i did was start with The largest offset that seemed pretty stable, always using the same benchmark to gauge performance, R23. Then test stability with different programs Like games and Tiny Media Manager, things I knew would crash the system. I started at - .150 with LLC3 because LLC3 got me the closest to vid/vcore match with that high of an offset. Then as i crashed I would raise the offset by 10mv and check it again. Anywhere from -.100 to -.125 with LLC3 and lite load 3 was pretty much always the most stable with the best scores and temps in R23. Once it was absolutely stable, then I started raising frequencies and adjusting ac loadline to match the vcore to the vid a little better. Because LLC3 is so strong, My Vcore was usually too high, so droping ac LL was how i compensated for that. And the processor will protect itself no matter what you do. At 100C, its going to throttle. So i see no reason to have thermal velocity so low. Put them at 90 and 95. If you have a water cooler you wont be getting into the 90s anyway unless something isnt right. That will be your clue that something needs adjusted. And definitly set the voltage max so it wont go too high. I set it at 1.450 because when i was getting into the 6.2ghz territory, it wouldnt boost that high unless i did raise it to 1.45 max. Even though i never got anywhere near that high under load. The offset is so large, its really not a problem. But I did have to raise that to unlock higher boost, for whatever reason. I never dropped it back down because i dont see a reason to.


Tips? I doubt im the right guy to ask, But one thing is undeniable. A large negative offset is the biggest piece of the puzzle. By far, its not even close. Everything else, dozens of tweaks, just get you another couple thousand points or so. But -.100 to -125V with an LLC3 and Lite load 3 is good for 40,000 give or take with very good temps and excellent stability. From there just keep LLC3, Liteload 3 and adjust the offset up or down to find performance and stability youre happy with. You very likely wont have to go advanced and adjust AC/DC at all unless you want to go higher. Most of the liteload settings have DC at 1.1, so i never adjusted that and when i did, I would crash. AC is what should be adjusted. Lower for lower voltage. Higher for higher voltage. Just play with the turbo ratios using any method you wish and adjust the ACLL to match the vcore to the vid while under full load. Try to pay attention to the max Vid and max Vcore. With c states and constantly moving targets, its too difficult matching the live readings. And you would need a scope to do it anyway.


I never touched system agent or ring or anything else. All of those have always just been left on auto. I will get into the BIOS and report back with what they are. I turn off polling for them because i never change them and dont want to waste the resources polling for them.

 

[jamiesaun85]

Here's everything I got. SA and VDDQ or whatever have you, it should all be in there, if i missed what you were looking for, let me know. I don't even know what half of those are, and i never touched any of them. Also I did a run with icue and all that turned off. Looks like its not good for 500 anymore. more like 200. That's because i turned most of the polling off that icue does. If i wasn't happy with the performance, I would defiantly turn off icue entirely and just let FanControl run everything. But its complicated and I'm fine with 42thou at 85c. So icue can stay.....for now.

 

[jamiesaun85]

Oh, and one more thing, BuildZoid, whoever he really is, deserves at least half the credit. He's the one who put in the work to figure out the starting point for offset and Loadlines. All I did was use his stuff as a starting point, and adjusted from there.

Also, you could do this same configuration with Intel Default. Its just that when you change the turbo ratios, it changes to msi unlimited automatically. I just punched in the intel defaults and left it like that, but if one wanted, you could flip it back to Intel default I'm pretty sure. Its the same thing either way. All of intel's recommendations are there. Just under he MSI Unlimited banner.

 

[jamiesaun85]

I just checked your new entry to the Raptor Lake Database. Wow. Very impressive! It looks like you just about threw the kitchen sink at it, combining almost every tweak known to mankind! I hope you don't mind, but I added your above R23 results as a URL link to your entry. That should give people some useful context. You definitely worked harder at it than most people have patience for. Interesting choice of LLC. What made you settle on the old level 3, like Arctucas runs with? I also have an old Comet Lake system running LLC3. It's rock solid!

Any other noteworthy pointers for people following in your footsteps, especially if they have the i9 14900K? I assume you're happy with the stability... If you run into any issues, please keep us posted. Incidentally, what are you running for these voltages? I think they can be impactful on CPU thermals and stability:
CPU SA Voltage [VCCSA]
CPU VDDQ / CPU VDD2

EDIT: BTW, you're rocking a pretty high room temperature - especially for this time of year. Unless of course you live in the Outback! Who knows. You might have been able to do even better with a 19C temp like my PC room.

I know it. This house is a split level that wasn't built very well at all. I have to keep the thermostat at 75 just to keep the middle floor livable. Unfortunately the basement and upstairs are too damn hot. And in the summer its the opposite. I really hate this house. But, the price was right.