Really NEED Undervolt guide for 14700k+MSI z790 mobo

[AndyTheGreat]

Hi, community. Just bought 14700K for my MSI z790-P Wifi DDR5. It burns like hell. I get 99-101 in Cinebench 24 and 102 in AIDA, around 99 in Premiere Pro and After Effects. Did not even try other software since it's obvious my DeepCool LS720 (promised by Tom's Hardware to cope with 13900k's over 300 watts) cannot withstand the 14700k 278 without thermal throttling.
So I either have to get another AIO - and I have no idea which one because there are aio owners saying their particular aio beats the temps of 14900k getting not more than 87 in tetsts and there are ones saying even the best 420 mm aios cannot cope with their 13700k - or undervolt my CPU.
I followed the instructions from some post right here on the MSI forums (cannot find it) and lowered the long term and short term power to 253 watts and also set the Lite Load from the default Mode 9 to Mode 3 and the temps are now ten degrees less. Is it enough? Is there any other method or is this one correct even?
I'm completely dumb in undervolting - those are just numbers in BIOS for me, so I really need some sort of an MSI mobo guide to correct and safe undervolting - step by step with screensots or a video. Please, help.

 

[AndyTheGreat]

Here's a screenshot before my undervolting and after it (the upper two processors), The undervolted one shows less points but it's 89 degrees versus the 102 before.

 

[tekcanb]

Hello,
1st choose other empty profile (bios default) and use my suggestion. Save it and test again

 

[AndyTheGreat]

Hello,
1st choose other empty profile (bios default) and use my suggestion. Save it and test again

Hi, tekcanb. Thanx for your post. I set my BIOS as you suggested except for CPU SA Voltage mode suggests variants not numbers (like the core voltage mode) so I left it Auto, then CPU Aux Load line calibration only has 2 modes, not 6, so I left it in auto too, and I don't have TA CEP support but rather IA CEP Support (swithced to Disable). Going to test right now

 

[tekcanb]

Hi, tekcanb. Thanx for your post. I set my BIOS as you suggested except for CPU SA Voltage mode suggests variants not numbers (like the core voltage mode) so I left it Auto, then CPU Aux Load line calibration only has 2 modes, not 6, so I left it in auto too, and I don't have TA CEP support but rather IA CEP Support (swithced to Disable). Going to test right now

What is your bios version?

 

[AndyTheGreat]

What is your bios version?

The latest before the current Beta (which has no improvements for the 14th K processors). So I've tested your settings and it's 87 degrees but a beter score in Cinebench as well, But OCCT crashed after 8 minutes (with my previous undervolting it crashed after 2)

 

[citay]

I followed the instructions from some post right here on the MSI forums (cannot find it) and lowered the long term and short term power to 253 watts and also set the Lite Load from the default Mode 9 to Mode 3 and the temps are now ten degrees less. Is it enough? Is there any other method or is this one correct even?

This is in principle the best method (CPU Lite Load adjustment + Power Limits adjustment), and the one i always recommend, especially when you have thermal throttling problems.

However, do not simply copy other people's settings for your situation. Even more so with the settings that tekcanb posted: Makes no sense to copy them. Each CPU is individual, even if it's the same model of CPU. They all have different voltage requirements for example. You can buy a dozen different CPUs of the same model and they will all need different voltages for stability. Watch this video as a demonstration. So to copy such specific settings like in the previous post is no good.

Similarly, the power limits (to make sure the cooling can deal with the heat), they are individual as well. Luckily the 250W seem to fit well for your situation, it stays below 90°C under full load, which is the goal with setting the power limits. Now you just need to get CPU Lite Load dialed in.

Reset everything relating to the CPU back to defaults (Auto). You can even do a Clear CMOS if you are not sure (enable XMP again of course). Then lower the CPU Lite Load mode, but not to Mode 3. Try with Mode 6 first for example, and test for stability, also see here. As i further wrote here, the 13900K and 14900K are usually the worst models to try and lower the Lite Load mode on, because they need the highest VCore to reach their high frequencies, and because the better models tend to be binned to become the -KS version. So you cannot simply go to Mode 3, see that it's unstable, and then try some other undervolting method instead. CPU Lite Load is still the best method, does it all for you, but you have to be mindful that your CPU needs quite high voltage and you can't lower the mode drastically. You can shave off a bit of voltage with this, but not a huge amount. But your cooling is already protected by setting the power limits.

 

[AndyTheGreat]

This is in principle the best method (CPU Lite Load adjustment + Power Limits adjustment), and the one i always recommend, especially when you have thermal throttling problems.

However, do not simply copy other people's settings for your situation. Even more so with the settings that tekcanb posted: Makes no sense to copy them. Each CPU is individual, even if it's the same model of CPU. They all have different voltage requirements for example. You can buy a dozen different CPUs of the same model and they will all need different voltages for stability. Watch this video as a demonstration. So to copy such specific settings like in the previous post is no good.

Similarly, the power limits (to make sure the cooling can deal with the heat), they are individual as well. Luckily the 250W seem to fit well for your situation, it stays below 90°C under full load, which is the goal with setting the power limits. Now you just need to get CPU Lite Load dialed in.

Reset everything relating to the CPU back to defaults (Auto). You can even do a Clear CMOS if you are not sure (enable XMP again of course). Then lower the CPU Lite Load mode, but not to Mode 3. Try with Mode 6 first for example, and test for stability, also see here. As i further wrote here, the 13900K and 14900K are usually the worst models to try and lower the Lite Load mode on, because they need the highest VCore to reach their high frequencies, and because the better models tend to be binned to become the -KS version. So you cannot simply go to Mode 3, see that it's unstable, and then try some other undervolting method instead. CPU Lite Load is still the best method, does it all for you, but you have to be mindful that your CPU needs quite high voltage and you can't lower the mode drastically. You can shave off a bit of voltage with this, but not a huge amount. But your cooling is already protected by setting the power limits.

Thank you, seems like you are the one whose post I used first )) I've reset all the settings except for XMP and the two power limits (253W right now) and I'll try with the Lite Load as you suggest. The one thing that bothers me is HOW exactly people cool it down?! I mean I've come accross hundreds of articles, forums and communities and seen messages of cooling this beast with even a two-fan AIOs and even air coolers getting acceptable temps without undervolting! How this can be if even my LS720 cannot do the job?

 

[citay]

The one thing that bothers me is HOW exactly people cool it down?!

Most likely they also have power limits set, knowingly or unknowingly. You cannot cool >300W with an air cooler or small AIO anymore.

Also, it is important what they are testing it with. In gaming, the CPU is drawing maybe 100-150W, so of course the temperatures are ok. The highest power draw only comes with things like Cinebench and stress tests.

 

[AndyTheGreat]

Hey, @citay
Is there any difference between the Lite load and Lite load control in bios options? Because both of them feature modes, but the ordinary lite load has 19 modes and the control one - only nine.

 

[citay]

I advise to leave CPU Lite Load Control on Normal, and only change the CPU Lite Load mode. When using the CPU Lite Load Control "Advanced" mode, you can set different AC and DC loadlines, but i wouldn't mess with that unless you are an expert in what is happening. The modifications of the DC Loadline mean modified power consumption measurements and VIDs, and if you set one to a different value than the other, you may get inaccurate power consumption readouts and VID values. I like to keep them synchronized, and then you can use the normal mode.

Advanced mode could give you more fine-grained settings in 1/100 m

(Milliohm) steps, but i don't recommend going to the edge of stability anyway, it's better to have some stability headroom. So first find the lowest stable mode, and then i would raise it by one additional step to be on the absolute safe side even under worse conditions like higher ambient temperature.

 

[AndyTheGreat]

I advise to leave CPU Lite Load Control on Normal, and only change the CPU Lite Load mode. When using the CPU Lite Load Control "Advanced" mode, you can set different AC and DC loadlines, but i wouldn't mess with that unless you are an expert in what is happening. The modifications of the DC Loadline mean modified power consumption measurements and VIDs, and if you set one to a different value than the other, you may get inaccurate power consumption readouts and VID values. I like to keep them synchronized, and then you can use the normal mode.

Advanced mode could give you more fine-grained settings in 1/100 m

(Milliohm) steps, but i don't recommend going to the edge of stability anyway, it's better to have some stability headroom. So first find the lowest stable mode, and then i would raise it by one additional step to be on the absolute safe side even under worse conditions like higher ambient temperature.

I left it as it is, but for the sake of understanding - CPU Lite load Control does not have any "normal" setting. It has these which actually double those modes but are fewer - only eight. They are in the GigiALL Power settings, while the lite load itself is found in the Advanced CPU Configuration. And this calibration thing has a scheme, while the Lite Load is just a list of modes

 

[citay]

CPU Lite load Control does not have any "normal" setting.

You are confusing two completely different settings. I mean the setting just above CPU Lite Load, it is called CPU Lite Load Control.

You can even see it on your photo:

This is the setting that i was explaining, since you asked for "Lite load control", and this is the setting which is called that.
So i tried to explain what happens when you set it from "Normal" to "Advanced".

The other setting you are now showing, which is under "DigitALL" (a play on "digital"), is something entirely different.
It is called "CPU Loadline Calibration Control", also known as "LLC" (Load Line Calibration). I explain that setting in detail here.

 

[ericrentaco153d02db]

Hello, I currently have my 14700k at a -0.125 voltage offset, with pl1=pl2 at 160=160, my CPU Current Limit at 280A and my lite load set to Auto.

I use an aircooler noctua d-15 with contact plate for cpu. My temps reach 80-90 when I heavy game max settings. Would putting lite load to 3 be beneficial for my pc's performance? I personally don't want my pc past 72c, 80c max. My case has good ventilation and im still just tryin yo figure out how to lower temps more with current setup by just optimizing my settings.

Another question i have is what does CPU Current Limit(A) even do? I have seen others online say to set it to 307A but in my testing 280A gives same performance at slightly less wattage.

 

[citay]

Hello, I currently have my 14700k at a -0.125 voltage offset

How did you arrive at that setting? Did it become unstable in stress tests with a lower voltage?

with pl1=pl2 at 160=160, my CPU Current Limit at 280A

I wouldn't set an Ampere limit. The current in A depends on the voltage in V, the outcome is the power draw in W, so set the Watt limit, then you control the end result.

The Current Limit can throttle too aggressively. So we want to go by the resulting power draw in Watt. When we control the maximum current in Amperes, we don't know what the voltage is. Every single CPU requests a slightly different voltage from the board, according to its quality. It will use different voltages under load. So we don't go by Amps, we go by Watts, the end result of it all, this is much more precise than trying to limit the current.

Another question i have is what does CPU Current Limit(A) even do? I have seen others online say to set it to 307A but in my testing 280A gives same performance at slightly less wattage.

The current limit (referred to as IccMax) is working with internal peak current within the CPU, which, when measured hundreds or thousands of times per second, can reach the limit and cause throttling to prevent overcurrent. Especially workloads that include AVX instructions (such as Cinebench) will cause such a throttling. This current limit is much harder to control than a wattage limit. You see, with your CPU under load, it will always use a voltage of 1.xx V. And 1 V * 280 A is at least 280W, but usually way over 300W limit, all calculated. Way higher than your wattage limits. So how can this have an effect? From it throttling too aggressively, from the way it's measured. So it's better to disregard the current limit completely.

I use an aircooler noctua d-15 with contact plate for cpu. My temps reach 80-90 when I heavy game max settings.

These are high temperatues for that cooler with 160W power limits, i have the same cooler. What's your GPU? I would assume you have a GPU with a high power draw, so under full GPU load, it dumps several hundred Watts worth of heat into the case, in addition to what the cooler already has to deal with from the CPU. This might be the reason for your high temperatures, you might need better airflow through the system. But you said your airflow is good, so maybe the fans are not on a good fan curve?

Would putting lite load to 3 be beneficial for my pc's performance? I personally don't want my pc past 72c, 80c max.

I would say, you can allow up to mid-80°C easily. But you should avoid >90°C and thermal throttling of course. To limit it to that, your first job is to optimize and maximize the cooling capabilities and set appropriate power limits. Afterwards, you can lower CPU Lite Load, but not some random mode, you have to lower it a bit first and test for stability. The CPU will usually become unstable below a certain mode. It's just like with undervolting, you have to stress-test it properly to see if it's still stable.

About how to properly do both steps, see here and follow the link.

 

[cyyoung]

This is in principle the best method (CPU Lite Load adjustment + Power Limits adjustment), and the one i always recommend, especially when you have thermal throttling problems.

However, do not simply copy other people's settings for your situation. Even more so with the settings that tekcanb posted: Makes no sense to copy them. Each CPU is individual, even if it's the same model of CPU. They all have different voltage requirements for example. You can buy a dozen different CPUs of the same model and they will all need different voltages for stability. Watch this video as a demonstration. So to copy such specific settings like in the previous post is no good.

Similarly, the power limits (to make sure the cooling can deal with the heat), they are individual as well. Luckily the 250W seem to fit well for your situation, it stays below 90°C under full load, which is the goal with setting the power limits. Now you just need to get CPU Lite Load dialed in.

Reset everything relating to the CPU back to defaults (Auto). You can even do a Clear CMOS if you are not sure (enable XMP again of course). Then lower the CPU Lite Load mode, but not to Mode 3. Try with Mode 6 first for example, and test for stability, also see here. As i further wrote here, the 13900K and 14900K are usually the worst models to try and lower the Lite Load mode on, because they need the highest VCore to reach their high frequencies, and because the better models tend to be binned to become the -KS version. So you cannot simply go to Mode 3, see that it's unstable, and then try some other undervolting method instead. CPU Lite Load is still the best method, does it all for you, but you have to be mindful that your CPU needs quite high voltage and you can't lower the mode drastically. You can shave off a bit of voltage with this, but not a huge amount. But your cooling is already protected by setting the power limits.

late to the party,you seem to know what you are talking about,been trying to tweak my msi z790 tomohawk and I7 14700k , so you suggest using only these 2 settings below,and should I do this all with xmp off,whats a good baseline for pla setting ? thanks

(CPU Lite Load adjustment + Power Limits adjustment)

Or just leave the pla settings alone,and let lite load control all of it ?

 

[citay]

What settings are good for the power limits depends on your CPU and on your cooling capabilities. If you see the last link in my post above yours, it's all described there. If you tell me your CPU cooler, i can give you a rough starting point for the power limits.

Now, the CPU Lite Load mode, that is completely individual to your specific CPU, at which point it becomes unstable. So that has to be determined later, through some stability testing. But first i would take care of the power limits so the CPU never gets so hot that it enters thermal throttling. Then in the second step you can try to lower the mode for CPU Lite Load.

 

[AndyTheGreat]

late to the party,you seem to know what you are talking about,been trying to tweak my msi z790 tomohawk and I7 14700k , so you suggest using only these 2 settings below,and should I do this all with xmp off,whats a good baseline for pla setting ? thanks

Or just leave the pla settings alone,and let lite load control all of it ?

Unfortunately this Lite Load thing alone drastically reduces the performance, so with it you can easily get a 13700 equivalent performance for the 14700's price... Though it is really the easiest methid to lower the temps so far

 

[FlyingScot]

Unfortunately this Lite Load thing alone drastically reduces the performance, so with it you can easily get a 13700 equivalent performance for the 14700's price... Though it is really the easiest methid to lower the temps so far

Andy, CPU Lite Load does not directly impact processor benchmark performance, etc. It only affects the voltage the CPU runs at from idle to full-core load. It’s when the voltage translates into power (e.g. multiplied by amps - and with TDP modifiers) and HEAT that it causes other BIOS parameters to get triggered depending on those values, e,g. PL1, PL2, Max Temp, Max current, etc. Something has to limit the auto-frequency boosting algorithms otherwise the processor would continue boosting frequency (which increases amps) until it went “China Syndrome” (great ‘70's movie) and melted through the motherboard, through the case, through your desk and floor and disappeared beneath the earth. Well, at least in theory, anyway. I’ve not actually witnessed this phenomenon myself. But then again, I use conservative power limits.

 

[citay]

Unfortunately this Lite Load thing alone drastically reduces the performance

Only if you leave CEP enabled. IA CEP is the "Current Excursion Protection" mechanism for the IA cores (normal CPU cores), and it wants to prevent any undercurrent or overcurrent from a narrow window that is expected for a CPU. Once it sees a break from the norm, it will work against it by also lowering performance a lot. With an active IA CEP, when using a lower CPU Lite Load mode, the performance can massively decrease, similar to here. Of course the temperatures will be much lower as well, but without the performance, that is no good. So in that case CEP has to be disabled (if it's possible, depending on the board + CPU combination), then the full performance will be kept, at lower power draw.