Severe X870 Tomahawk issues

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Leon255156302e1

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I recently bought the X870 Tomahawk to use with a 9800x3d and Corsair 2x16Gb 6000CL30 EXPO (CMK32GX5M2B6000Z30) but I'm having lots of issues...
Frequent crashes (windows sometimes shows "Clock watchdog timeout" BSOD, sometimes no blue screen), my NVME drives sometimes disappear (I need to turn off the power completely, a reboot isn't enough to show it again) making the OS unable to boot and I could not get the Wifi to work.

Today during a reboot there was a warning that the hardware changed so I press F1 to open the bios and the EXPO profile simply disappeared! I exit the bios, boot the system and now it only shows 4Gb of RAM?!? The system is very slow too.
I'm using the latest bios, but it isn't stable, please advise.
 

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not saying it cant be the board, but many here point the finger at msi, without even applying the basic bios"tweaks" that should be done for AMD/AM5,
like disabling C-states to prevent usb related issues.
your usually better of setting things like voltages (soc/ram/vddp etc), clocks/timings/ram manually, dont have any insides, as i stopped working in shops before AM5 came out.
many forums like guru3d/tpu and others have basic guides for setup.

@jakeift153102db
reset bios to defaults, power down, do bios flashback, load defaults, reboot, then see if you can change stuff.
I've just tried the steps you listed and no luck. I think you may misunderstand my issue, it's not that I can't 'change stuff' it's that I can change the options in the uefi but that by doing so results in no meaningful change, at least where the DRAM voltage settings are concerned. This is true for both 'auto' settings set by A-XMP/EXPO profiles and manually inputting any acceptable voltage in the respective fields. Yes, I have tried the basic bios 'tweaks' unless you know of a hidden 'Limit RAM to 1.1V' setting I could have missed. I feel that after following all the troubleshooting advice here and that failing, the issue could either be a faulty board (which I don't think it is) or an issue with MSI's UEFI software and it's compatibility with some sets of RAM.

I'm returning my patriot sticks and getting some slightly more expensive kingston sticks (6400 CL32) that are on the QVL in hopes they'll work, will update this thread with my results. I want my ram to run at 6000 MT/s as a minimum to get the most out of my 9800x3d and waiting and hoping MSI's next bios will fix my memory issue seems wishful.

Edit: The method of tagging people you used seemed to not work on my end, no notifications or emails
 
@jakeift153102db
did get that, just from experience with AM4 and Gb boards, to make sure you tried it.
i expect it more likely to be bios then, rather than ram.

maybe with an older version? just to see if it make a difference.
have you tried changing tweak mode to expert (not normal) or the amd ocing sections?
 
I've previously tried the other two older BIOS's publicly available to the same result, there was another release (1A17) that was later taken down that I haven't tried but given the others changed nothing and this is prior to the most current version I'm not really too keen in trying to track down a copy of it.
I've always had the OC complexity mode or whatever it's called set to expert, it defaults to that on this board I think. Not tried the AMD OC section, might give it a go if the new sticks fix the issue just to see if there's a workaround for other people.
 
@ghal155a02dd
many bios are now released in beta (or would you rather have no update for fix/new hw?), and many are being renamed to non-beta, without any further changes (besides testing), not just on msi.
did you disable msi driver install in bios?
did you do gpu driver install/cleaning while connected to internet?

unless the beta improves/fixes anything, use the latest non-beta is a good idea.
no, flash doesnt always clear cmos. i personally load defaults prior to flash, as well a right after, on some Gb i even had to use flashback to erase previous settings.
i have done 5 flashs in the past 12 month and redo almost the all settings incl redoing fan profiles for 5 fan groups each time.
take pictures or write down settings, if thats too much "work" (in relation to "gains" on perf/noise), buy a mac, and be done with it :biggrin:

disable C-states option in bios, see if it helps with usb, if not, check SoC v, too much/not enough tends to impact it.

and no, memtest86 (or any other variant of it) will NOT find errors from oc. its designed to detect DEFECTIVE dies, not instability.
part of the reason why im not surprised with the usb issue, as i assume its not really stable (timings/clocks/voltages).

test 24h with TM5/HCI or similar, without getting errors, THEN your good.
Betas are ok, but no option to go with a non beta bios is not. I won't change my stance on that. Just because MSI isn't the only one, doesn't make it better one bit to me.
to answer your questions:

-I did disable driver install in bios from the get go, before I installed w11
-I used DDU to uninstall the gpu drivers in safe mode without any network drivers loaded and did a reinstall after a reboot in the same mode. But I did that AFTER I ran into my blackscreen problem. My GPU is fine, because it runs great in my AM4 system. The only other new variable, besides the motherboard is the PSU.. It could be caused by the new Asus rog strix 1200w platinum 3.1 ATX somehow... but it also could be the motherboard. I don't know.
-I tried to load system defaults with the new bios and Wlan is still missing (GPU driver install blackscreen still happens too)
-ofc I know that I could document my fan curve values and re do them after a cmos.. the point is , I don't want to do it 5 times in 12 months.. and I don't think it is too much to ask for. No reason to be so offensive and call me out to buy an apple product :p
-will take your TM5/HCI advice and give it a try :)

rn I am torn between sending the board back and waiting for a new bios that hopefully fixes my problems.. I think the features on that board are great.. if they would work. I ran into early adopters curse I guess. A first time for me. In the last 20 years my timing was better.
As a non native english speaker I hope I could make my points clear.
 
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your usually better of setting things like voltages (soc/ram/vddp etc), clocks/timings/ram manually
@jakeift153102db
reset bios to defaults, power down, do bios flashback, load defaults, reboot, then see if you can change stuff.

@Piledriver
QVL has ZERO to do with stuff working or not, just a list that certain ram was tested on that board.

@Globespy
have you verified yours is stable (TM5/HCI and something like core cruncher for CO)?
+200/-20 is not that extreme, but short of fine tuning a lot regarding CO, usually -10-15 is what most can do (if just enabled).

you can gain more on amd cpus tweaking primary/secondary timings, than what most will get from PBO on

@ghal155a02dd
many bios are now released in beta, not just on msi.
use the latest non-beta is a good idea.
no, flash doesnt always clear cmos.

and no, memtest86 will NOT find errors from oc. its designed to detect DEFECTIVE dies, not instability.
part of the reason as i assume its not really stable (timings/clocks/voltages).

test 24h with TM5/HCI or similar, without getting errors, THEN your good.

@laurentiu.v
disable win driver update and disable MPO in win
Hi guys, yeap thanks to @Waldorf insights here, that's preciselly all of them I've done already, plus rolled back, third time, earlier debut 1.2.0.2, which's best so far, after being through all Agesas "a"b"1A1A" no Latency Killer, Low Latency or crap features added like bandages to cover engineers script Bios mems freq issues, here's below only manually input values & as much Disabled option I can run, stable 🙏
5.6 allcores PBO Limits Auto(88w default) Scalar 2x/Boost clock +150/CO-15 All
Mems freq setup 8100CL36 tightest timmings, all manually, Synced 37/37 channel A/B, NO Expo, goes Disabled, also GearOFF, NitroOFF, Memory Context, Power Down Disabled goes OFF and more ...
 

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@ghal155a02dd
except unless you work for any of the brands, we dont know what/who is the cause for the bios trouble, when the past few years have shown it tends to be AEGA/AMD most of the time,
and not the board makers.
so no, its not msi's fault, unless there is a delay after receiving the initial files from amd.

i understand its not nice to have to redo stuff, but we have to expect teething problems, when you have something relatively new, that isnt a pre-configured rig of the shelf,
and fixes sometimes take time to be tested, or if amd finds security issues, they have to release a new bios for any fix, so its not like they do this stuff on purpose, just to piss off users.

getting an apple was meant towards getting something claimed to be simple to use, while costing more than it should, not meant offensive, and why i added the smiley.

early adoption isnt the issue, its companies (no matter if amd or board makers) being "forced" to rush things out the door (management/shareholders), sometimes without enough time to do stuff properly, and badly optimized games that require 1-3 updates before even being considered playable, would be the the other example for it.
one reason i always tell ppl that arent experienced in troubleshooting (to say it in simple terms) or dont want to deal with things like multiple fw updates in short time period,
to wait at least a year before switching hw.
 
can't 'change stuff' it's that I can change the options in the uefi but that by doing so results in no meaningful change, at least where the DRAM voltage settings are concerned
Out of interest do you use F10 to save your bios setting other ways of saving can be non-productive and frustrating
 
@Waldorf
no offense was taken.. It was a bit of sarcasm towards apple.. I guess its getting lost in my language barrier somehow.. idk..
Today was weird. Yesterday I tried to put my bios in default settings. F10- Reboot.. still no wifi.
Then I slept a night over it and today I booted in windows and MSI center suddenly wanted to install the Qualcomm NCM865 WIFI Drivers3.1.0.1323.. Now I got W-Lan and it works. Idk why the system needed another reboot. Driver is not new .. its the version from 2024-11-21.

Idk what helped, but it did.
 
@ghal155a02dd
except unless you work for any of the brands, we dont know what/who is the cause for the bios trouble, when the past few years have shown it tends to be AEGA/AMD most of the time,
and not the board makers.
so no, its not msi's fault, unless there is a delay after receiving the initial files from amd.
Ehm, if I look at the fact that everyone else with the X870(E) boards has stable UEFI versions available, then you should be able to see that MSI alone has messed up here. And not just since the 800 series, no, even with the 600 series! Damn! Biostar as a “newcomer” can do it, only MSI can't!

I tried another Linux (Kubuntu) last weekend - against my better judgment. As with Ubuntu, the WLAN adapter is found and works with a driver. If you restart the system, the WLAN adapter is gone. Only a CMOS-Clear helps! Damn! What is going wrong at MSI that something like this can happen. And we are still stuck on A1A BETA! The board has been available for purchase for a quarter. When will the only MSI engineer get it done? How many customers have already returned the X870 from MSI? How many RMAs have been done? How much has all this cost! Only MSI is to blame! No one else!

If a product does not work, i.e. still has too many faults, then it should not be offered for sale. But that's exactly what MSI does and probably wants us customers as free beta testers. So the “hint” about waiting a year is...well, let's call it nonsense.

Edit: MSI needs a QUL, a Qualified UEFI List, where MSI checks the UEFI beforehand and doesn't just put it online and say to customers: Test it.
 
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I've previously tried the other two older BIOS's publicly available to the same result, there was another release (1A17) that was later taken down that I haven't tried but given the others changed nothing and this is prior to the most current version I'm not really too keen in trying to track down a copy of it.
I've always had the OC complexity mode or whatever it's called set to expert, it defaults to that on this board I think. Not tried the AMD OC section, might give it a go if the new sticks fix the issue just to see if there's a workaround for other people.
Positive note, the new sticks don't have this issue! Have been able to OC them at 1.4v fine and they are showing as 1.4v. I'm thinking the UEFI is just unaware of the exact PMIC chip model in the 1.1v locked sticks so is defaulting to no more than JEDEC standard for DDR5, 1.1v, to prevent damage but still allow them to run. This bodes well for it being fixed in a future bios update as the board isn't faulty. As I'm returning them I won't crack open the heat shielding to find out what that chip it is exactly. Now to tune the timings on the new sticks :)
 
@ghal155a02dd
i get it, same problem every other month, as my native german doesnt always properly sound the same in english.

@Piledriver
never said everyone has to wait a year. i specifically said those not interested in possible "troubleshooting/trying things" an/or without the technical knowledge to do so,
because im old enough to know never to buy the first "release" of anything, incl cars/other electronics, short of the exception here and there (consoles/appliances).
 
@Alan J T
Do u mean the Qualcomm one ? Idk of an AMD one :)
My Wlan is now suddenly working.
-I use the latest beta bios and restored the system defaults (did that 2x and saved with F10),
-left EXPO deactivated ,
-deactivated integrated GPU
-deactivated MSI Driversupport
-booted in Windows and suddenly I could install the Qualcomm WLan driver.
Since then I activated Expo again and Wlan is still working fine.

GPU-driver install blackscreen remains a thing.
 
I'm so done with this and probably returning this motherboard (x870 tomahawk).
After several issues with the RAM (even though it was on the QVL list), now every few reboots I'm getting error 10 and/or '0d'. Completely random, even after successfully using the PC for hours. Restarting a few times usually solves it and it's like nothing happened.. but its annoying for this price point. I've had cheaper, older mb's that never gave me a single issue. I've seen a few mentions of these issues here, so while it doesn't happen to everyone, it happens to enough folks that it's noticeable. If your bios is beta and unstable - don't release the product.
 
while its probably the cause, there is so much hw out there, sometime certain parts just dont wanna work together,
just shitty if you cant find from where it comes, short of replacing mb
 
@ghal155a02dd
i get it, same problem every other month, as my native german doesnt always properly sound the same in english.

@Piledriver
never said everyone has to wait a year. i specifically said those not interested in possible "troubleshooting/trying things" an/or without the technical knowledge to do so,
because im old enough to know never to buy the first "release" of anything, incl cars/other electronics, short of the exception here and there (consoles/appliances).
I completely disagree. I do understand where you're coming from, but it's not fair to fault this on consumers that are paying a lot of $$$ for products that were officially released and sold in stores worldwide. I've had MB's that released with 0 issues.... 0!
So if your bios is not ready, then hold off on releasing this product until it is ready. Otherwise you're 100% aware that some people will have issues as by definition it's a beta bios with inherent bugs (otherwise logically they wouldn't of labeled it as 'beta').

You're defending a multi-BILLION dollar company because they released an unfinished product (per the beta bios's) and saying people are the fault for not waiting. Well.. I for one didn't know this was the situation, it's the first time in my life that I've encountered a MB with only beta bios's. I'm sure many are like me.
 
MSI needs a QUL, a Qualified UEFI List, where MSI checks the UEFI beforehand and doesn't just put it online and say to customers: Test it.
Considering AMD have the habit of stuffing up the BIOS MSI would never end up releasing an update if this was put into use.
and then end users would be screaming about no BIOS updates seems they are dammed if they don't and dammed if they do.

However, there does seem to be a few too many Ghost in the Machine bugs with Hardware disappearing
 
Whatever is the cause of this customer experience.. if it's AMD or MSI..
Something needs to be changed in the system.
Ofc I understand your points.. they are valid. But a customer that bought a 300$ Mainboard is still no beta tester. All the explanations u guys came up with are legit, but I don't have to accept the situation as "ok the way it is".

I think he has a point. Quality control needs to be improved. On AMD or MSIs end doesn't matter much to the customer ...and I don't think that fixing the system is easy.
 
never said anything regarding this being ok, or fine considering cost of parts, but blaming it on the beta status, or even claiming beta = bugs, is incorrect.
ignoring that during am4 i have seen virtually all mb makers releasing bet versions that were later "renamed" to non beta status, without ANY further changes to the release,
incl confirmation from one board maker (having employees in a tech forum) that there was no change in any form (besides renaming) from beta to non-beta.

again not defending any company, but sometimes you have to release to the masses, to be able to find problems, and sure, many times companies do it wrong,
and basically all of them had it at some point, no matter if its Asus/Msi /Gb or any other name brand, cant remember a single one without flaws from the last 20y.
or what about the problem intel had, had virtually nothing to do with mb makers, and required a fix by intel, but no one knew for a long time.
 
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