Severe X870 Tomahawk issues

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Leon255156302e1

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I recently bought the X870 Tomahawk to use with a 9800x3d and Corsair 2x16Gb 6000CL30 EXPO (CMK32GX5M2B6000Z30) but I'm having lots of issues...
Frequent crashes (windows sometimes shows "Clock watchdog timeout" BSOD, sometimes no blue screen), my NVME drives sometimes disappear (I need to turn off the power completely, a reboot isn't enough to show it again) making the OS unable to boot and I could not get the Wifi to work.

Today during a reboot there was a warning that the hardware changed so I press F1 to open the bios and the EXPO profile simply disappeared! I exit the bios, boot the system and now it only shows 4Gb of RAM?!? The system is very slow too.
I'm using the latest bios, but it isn't stable, please advise.
 

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never said anything regarding this being ok, or fine considering cost of parts, but blaming it on the beta status, or even claiming beta = bugs, is incorrect.
ignoring that during am4 i have seen virtually all mb makers releasing bet versions that were later "renamed" to non beta status, without ANY further changes to the release,
incl confirmation from one board maker (having employees in a tech forum) that there was no change in any form (besides renaming) from beta to non-beta.

again not defending any company, but sometimes you have to release to the masses, to be able to find problems, and sure, many times companies do it wrong,
and basically all of them had it at some point, no matter if its Asus/Msi /Gb or any other name brand, cant remember a single one without flaws from the last 20y.
or what about the problem intel had, had virtually nothing to do with mb makers, and required a fix by intel, but no one knew for a long time.
You're impossible to deal with. Your response to a company messing up is literally, 'others do it too'. Right, because that makes it better in any way? What are we kids? Because MSI can't be better? and NOT mess up?
And did they 'have to release it to the masses'?? No. They didn't 'have to' do anything. They could have waited a few months, worked on stability and released it then. Stop defending these companies. At the very least don't comment and make it seem like this is ok. IT'S NOT.

When people make a new build and their QVL ram doesn't work (and there are dozens and dozens of reports) it's a massive problem. It's in the QVL list. Stop.Defending.Them.
 
Alright, this is (hopefully) a simple and quick question. Might be somewhat off-topic though..maybe.

I got this MB yesterday, yet to even unpack it (still waiting for the new cpu).
My question is, is it possible to update/flash the bios without the CPU 'inserted'?
I think it was an Asus board I read about the feature where you could just flash the bios without barely anything(including cpu) inserted/connected. Dunno if its possible on this MSI board tho?
In short, do I have to wait for my cpu to arrive to update the bios? If it's possible to flash the bios with NO cpu on the MB, then how do one go about doing this? :)
(I've never in my life updated a bios, yet I've been 'building' PCs for many years)
(bonus)Question 2, best/safest way to flash the bios? thru the bios, or via the IO button/usb, or whatever other option there is?

(sneaky 3rd question: if nothing is mentioned on the download page for a bios, can you skip to the very latest bios and use that to flash, or do you have to update them in order? i.e update to the bios that came out in september first, then update with october's, then lastly(atm) the november one. Or can I just flash with the very latest bios and skip over the previous versions available?)

I read thru this thread, and I'm starting to more and more regret this purchase, had only heard praise and love for this board, then I found this thread and now I'm extremely worried. Considering my CPU probably wont arrive for another month, which most likely also means it would be too late to just send back this mobo as a 'regret this purchase pls take it back'(think the rule/law says 30 days here)
And just for the sake of it, if anyone has actual personal experience with the following combo, I would be curious to know if it's a working combo.
This mobo + 9800x3d(eventually) + ram = KF564C32BBEK2-32 (kingston) The ram is on the qvl - but I trust that list as far as I can throw it at the moment lol.

Hopefully all this made any sense. I feel like a newbie, well I kinda am when it comes to actual bios updating. So be gentle with me ok? ;)
 
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1. U can flash the bios using the "bios flash back button" without a CPU inserted, using an USB Stick with the new bios and a power supply giving the Mainboard energy.the method is called bios flash back and isn't my favorite because u have no display showing u how it's going .. just a blinking led..

2. Best way IMHO is m-flash in the bios , using a USB drive.

3. 9800x3d doesn't need a bios flash to be able to boot, but it will be not necessarily stable. So I would recommend using m-flash to update the bios to the latest version. Msi provides a guide on how to m flash .

4. My Kingston 64gb 6000mt/s cl30 kit seems to work just fine in Expo .

@duckduckshee15ac02e0


I don't think he tried to defend MSI and I don't think he is impossible to deal with.. he tried to explain why we are where we are and stayed rational.
He meant u have to push out to the masses to even find the stuff that needs fixing.. this is true.
I think u are right about the subject of quality control.. and MSI/amd needs to do more testing before releasing hardware at this state.

We can all discuss this and maybe have different opinions on the subject.
 
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Considering AMD have the habit of stuffing up the BIOS MSI would never end up releasing an update if this was put into use.
and then end users would be screaming about no BIOS updates seems they are dammed if they don't and dammed if they do.

However, there does seem to be a few too many Ghost in the Machine bugs with Hardware disappearing
Ah, is that the reason why MSI has streamlined the - in your opinion - crammed UEFI and decided to remove hotswap for SATA for us customers, for example?!
 
decided to remove hotswap for SATA for us customers, for example
As far as I know, that is being looked into, Why the option to turn on or off Hotswap has been hidden is a totally daft idea
I use it myself on my current system so I understand just how annoying not having that option would be and I made my feeling clear on that with our support.

As I understand it it is only disabled in RAID on the new 800 Series boards. It is beyond me why it was Hidden.
 
MSI has streamlined the - in your opinion - crammed UEFI
Have only seen some screenshots of the new UEFI, I have yet to get my hands on it. However, from what I have seen I am not a fan so far.
 
My question is, is it possible to update/flash the bios without the CPU 'inserted'?
Yes you only need one USB drive the Motherboard and a PSU


Please excuse the spacing I had all my quick notes in Word Pad and well ^$#$# Microsoft nuked it


FOR BIOS FLASHBACK



The following Directions are for Windows-based OS



Right, Click on the Downloaded Bios Zip File, and select properties if you see the message this file is blocked by Windows tick the box to unblock and click OK.



When in Windows File Explorer, select the View tab and Tick the box Show Hidden Files and File Name Extensions.



Extract the BIOS file from the Downloaded ZIP file Open the folder it was extracted to.



Right-click on the BIOS file, select copy and then paste it into a 32GB or smaller USB drive Formatted to FAT32.



When in Windows File Explorer, select the View Tab and Tick the box Show Hidden Files and File Name Extension.



Now rename the BIOS file to MSI.ROM



There should be no other files or folders on the USB drive, just the BIOS file you have renamed to MSI.ROM





FlashBack can be used on a fully assembled PC even if the CPU is one of the new 5xxx series.



PC must be turned off for BIOS Flashback to be started do not turn on your PC the Bios Flashback will do it for you












Plug the USB Drive into the USB port just below the Bios Button,



Do not touch any Jumpers on the Motherboard



Push the FlashBack button and then release it,



About 5 seconds later a led just above the USB port will start to flash, after 15 seconds or so the speed of the flashing light will double this is the writing to the BIOS period.



Once done writing to the BIOS it will stop flashing and PSU will turn off



For 16MB BIOS, it will take about 4 to 5 minutes and flashing stops.



32MB BIOS will take 6 to 7 minutes and flashing stops.



People have said that it may turn back on if so just turn it off and unplug the PSU.



And Bios should be flashed.



Failed BIOS flashback is one of three way



One- it never stops flashing

Two- Solid LED no flash and stays on till you power off the PC

Three- it flashes four of 5 times and then stops




It successfully will flash for about 15 to 20 seconds it will then will flash quicker for 4 to 6 minutes and then turn off.
 
if nothing is mentioned on the download page for a bios, can you skip to the very latest bios and use that to flash
Yes no need to do them in order just flash to the latest one

You can also flash to an earlier bio the exact same way if the new bios is not to your liking
 
I read thru this thread, and I'm starting to more and more regret this purchase, had only heard praise and love for this board
Problems while they are reported are not common thousands of boards have been sold yet only a few seem to have problems.
And they are investigated to see if there is a solution.
 
mb makers releasing bet versions that were later "renamed" to non beta status, without ANY further changes to the release,
incl confirmation from one board maker (having employees in a tech forum) that there was no change in any form (besides renaming) from beta to non-beta.

Renaming can be done, there is absolutely NOTHING against it. Because why should you touch and change a working beta version again when it works?Prerequisite: It has been TESTED and found to be GOOD. This does not apply to MSI in any way! If you and others are still trying to defend this, then it is clear that others who have spent a lot of money on a product and expect the promised features to work see it diametrically differently! The MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI is my most expensive motherboard to date. Before that I had an Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (now sold) and currently an Asus TUF GAMING B650-PLUS WIFI for another system. Both cheaper. Both work. Just like the other Asus boards or even further back Epox before that!

again not defending any company, but sometimes you have to release to the masses, to be able to find problems, and sure, many times companies do it wrong,
and basically all of them had it at some point, no matter if its Asus/Msi /Gb or any other name brand, cant remember a single one without flaws from the last 20y.
or what about the problem intel had, had virtually nothing to do with mb makers, and required a fix by intel, but no one knew for a long time.
I don't know how it can be interpreted differently, i.e. that you and a few others would not defend MSI. You might want to read your posts again. I don't want to attack anyone here, it's just getting on my nerves that MSI still hasn't brought a product that has been available for 3 months to a normal usable state.

Another problem is the “great” MSI Center. Nobody has tested the current version to the end. The Extended Live Update generates script errors... I'm almost ready to say that MSI is Volkswagen and can't do software!
 
@duckduckshee15ac02e0
no one forced you to deal with me.
ignore my posts, and go on your merry day. has been your option from day one.


you clearly dont understand what qvl means, its QUALIFIED and not GUARANTEED (list). you gave me a funny idea, gonna make a sticker: "..but it was on the QVL..."
ignoring that if the bios is messed up, like you said, not even qvl ram would work (you know, because of the faulty bios), so why is this now part of you argument?

dont care for being a beta tester?
then dont buy a product that only has beta bios available at the time of purchase, its that simple.

@Piledriver
me mentioning the renaming was to show how many times a "beta" was fine, just to show its not uncommon for betas to be fine,
of course if not a single release is stable, its a different story, and is not acceptable.
(this is one of the reasons why i never get anything that hasnt received at least a single non-beta bios, when its available for purchase, no matter the brand/item)

unfortunately, the last couple years have shown me, past experience isnt a guarantee for future perf anymore, no matter what it is.
ignoring AM4 was a different socket/chipset/different type on ram, so cant really be used, to project what brand will do better than another on the next socket.

e.g. Asrock for the early days of ryzen, and for me (with x570 boards) it was Asus (setup/tweaking; used for couple builds for customers/friends),
and Gb, my +300$ Aorus was the worst board i have ever used in +20y (didnt run stable a single day), while ppl using same brands on AM5 and are absolutely fine.

any mb feature that will dl and/or install something, should be disabled from the start, and i have to say Asus armor crate is the worst, and best example why i personally dont get Asus mb anymore, on msi its at least only for installing drivers.

same for any of those sw bundles you can get outside of drivers, they dont offer any additional functionality (i can think of), and i have not used any of them for any build (mine or not) since 2015, and tell everyone to not use them ever.
but true, doesnt mean they should upload stuff thats clearly not working properly.
 
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@Waldorf
As I had the MSI B650 Tomahawk in mind for the other system mentioned and have many years of experience with Asus, I can only vehemently speak against this! Even back then, the development of the UEFI was lame and bad. I have never used a beta with Asus, although one or the other beta was renamed into a stable version. But that just shows how good the quality is at Asus! Again, I repeat myself: The MAG X870 Tomahawk WIFI and the PRO X870-P WIFI have been on the market for 3 months and there is still no stable UEFI! I'm bursting at the seams! We see a lot of dissatisfied customers - including me - many are returning the MSI boards and rightly so! My perception, even in German forums, is that MSI is just bad. Was that what MSI wanted to achieve with an early sale of the 600 and 800 series boards? After my experiences, I can only go back to Asus the next time I buy a motherboard. It costs more, but it's worth it to have no hassle and no unnecessary work.

My life is too short to waste it on such things.
 
@Piledriver
true.
its not gonna help you now, but thats part of the reason why i tell friends to "wait" when a new product (x800) is being released, so all teething problems get fixed.

my mistake was to argue (beta doesn't automatically mean "bad") without checking the mb support page and see it only has betas available.
then again, i never buy (or recommend) anything that doesnt have at least a single non-beta fw/driver etc available, no matter the brand, making trouble less likely.
 
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@Piledriver
true.
its not gonna help you now, but thats part of the reason why i tell friends to "wait" when a new product (x800) is being released, so all teething problems get fixed.

my mistake was to argue (beta doesn't automatically mean "bad") without checking the mb support page and see it only has betas available.
then again, i never buy (or recommend) anything that doesnt have at least a single non-beta fw/driver etc available, no matter the brand, making trouble less likely.
it's not about x870/e. 670/e also has a lot of bugs with 9800x3d. I think the culprit is still AMD
 
@pogulyajkodim128f02a9
probably.
part of the problem is, anything below ~2500 of the same configs compared, you cant really make a (statistically) relevant argument, what is the actual cause,
and why i dont blame someone, until the facts clearly show it (as in not a single board being stable).

and the intel power issue on latest gen is the best example:
ppl blaming the board makers, when in reality it was intels fault, and iirc, didnt take responsibility for almost 2 years.
 
Thank you ghal and Alan.
One last bios/flashing question and then I'll be quiet lol.
So, by using the flashback on the io, you can update bios without cpu.
However, if I wanna use M-flash thru the current bios, does THAT need the CPU slotted?
In other words, can one get into the bios to do the flashing there, even if there's no cpu in(on?) the mobo?
As I think I would prefer m-flash, if nothing else, at least to have the ability to see some sort of progress on a screen (which I understand isn't a thing with the flashback button/tactic)

Also, just for the sake of it, the flashback button back on the IO, press and let go, or keep it pressed until it starts flashing? I.e just a quick tap basically, OR hold it for "X" amount of seconds?

Usually I try to figure stuff out myself instead of asking. But let's be honest, mobos and cpu's etc, aint exactly dirt cheap toys. Soo, i rather ask and risk sounding dumb than potentially destroying something :)
 
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@moonaco7150602ce
the flashback is for recover (e.g. nothing else works), or for updating the bios prior to use of a newer cpu, that wasn't included when the board shipped,
so ppl dont have to have an older cpu, just to make the update (thru mflash) and be able to use it.

i prefer to do the flashback with cpu installed, load defaults, then flash thru bios again.

you install hw, switch pus to on (dont power up pc), insert drive into flashback port and press&hold the button for a second and you see the flashback led starts blinking,
then wait a few minutes, system should startup/power cycle after flash is finished.
 
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