Sleep/resume issues with brand new Z590 Gaming Carbon WiFi when overclocking

TurboJLo

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Just upgraded my PC from MSI Z390 Gaming Carbon with i9-9900k @ 5ghz all cores to the Z590 and i7-11700k.
I reused all the previous parts so I know everything is working fine. Sleep/resume worked fine on the previous motherboard/CPU
Other parts:
G.Skill Trident RBG 3600mhz 32 GB (16x2) (running XMP1)
Samsung 980 M.2 2TB
Samsung 970 M.2 0.5TB
EVGA 3090 K|ngp|n
EVGA Titanium 1000w PSU
NZXT Z73 Kraken

Sleep/resume works fine when running auto/stock settings on the CPU. It's not an OS issue or PSU issue etc.

As soon as I try any kind of an overclock (even the smallest change) I boot up and all my stress tests pass, gaming works fine etc, but when I sleep the OS and then resume it the PC wakes up and the monitor wakes up to a blank screen and then shortly after goes back into power saving mode.
If I revert the overclock sleep/resume goes back to working as normal.
I'm running the latest BIOS release from April (not a beta) and have tried reverting to the BIOS from Feb with the same results.

I am NOT using the extra PCI 6 pin power connector at the bottom of the board because the only things using PCI-E power are the 2 M.2 drives and the 3090 Kingpin. I cannot see how this would make a difference to sleep/resume esp when it works fine @ stock settings and this extra power has nothing to do with the CPU or overclocking. Is this a bug in the BIOS or am I missing some setting that needs to be enabled when overclocking to make resume work correctly?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
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teletubby_po

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what are the overclock settings you changed? do you have this issue when you enable XMP alone?
can you remove the discrete GPU and see if the same thing happens when you use integrated GPU?
 

TurboJLo

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XMP or manually configured RAM settings work just fine. (its on XMP1 and sleeping/resuming fine with stock CPU settings)
The settings I tried were things like turbo ratio offset (+1, +2, +3) along with the necessary negative offset to AVX
Changed voltage mode to adaptive and changed voltage to 1.43, 1.44, 1.45 (all of which were stable in my stress testing) Also changed cores manually instead of offsets etc and tried different voltages depending on the overclock to see if the sleep issue was being caused by too little voltage on wakeup even though they were stable in testing. I know I tried 1.46, 1.47, 1.475 and I may have even done 1.5 once just to try to rule out voltage droop. But it has sleep issues no matter what I tried. Not trying anything exotic on the overclocks to start was just trying to get a feel for what the CPU needs and not overclocking the RAM at all only using XMP1 or the same settings as XMP1 just manually entered.
Great suggestion on the iGPU will give that a test when I can.
 
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teletubby_po

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are you using win 10? what's the windows version?
 

MasterSaxGnz

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I have had a z590 ace for a while and only recently have experienced this same issue. Nothing in the bios has changed in the past 3-4 months. I'm thinking a recent windows update is the culprit.
 

teletubby_po

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@MasterSaxGnz are you using the latest BIOS 7D04v11?
and the issue happens after windows update? are you able to roll back to revert the issue?
 

MasterSaxGnz

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@MasterSaxGnz are you using the latest BIOS 7D04v11?
and the issue happens after windows update? are you able to roll back to revert the issue?
I'm on the latest 7D04v11 bios, been on them since they released. Have not messed with bios since then. Sleep/wake was working fine until about 2 weeks ago. I have not tried reverting windows update but I will in the morning. Only other thing I can think of is gpu (3090) driver that was also updated around then. I'll revert the gpu driver first and see if either or fixes it.
 

citay

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Problem is, neither reverting Windows updates nor driver updates is a viable long-term strategy, because there are regular security flaws in either.

The question i would also pose is, does your overclock give you any tangible, notable benefit?

Power consumption can be extremely high with an 11700K already with certain workloads, once you remove the power limits, i'm talking 200 to even 300W, see Anandtech reviews. The last i7/i9 CPU from Intel that was an overclocking champ was the 8700K. The 9900K was already a beast, Intel went a lot closer to the limit by default. But with the top CPUs of the 10th/11th-gen series, there is literally almost no headroom left, unless you're willing to accept a huge hit in efficiency for a measly performance increase. The competition was too strong, Intel didn't leave any potential unused to compete with AMD. You're better off just by removing the turbo limits, and hoping that your cooling is up to the task.

I've talked about it here before, https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?...msi-z590-ace-motherboard.361936/#post-2054207

Due to the different, aggressive turbo modes of the top-end CPU models, those CPUs are driven to 99% of their capabilities once you remove the power limits and give the turbo modes free reign. For the last 1%, you will have to live with an exponential increase in power draw and heat production, which can quickly overwhelm some of the best CPU cooling available.

Intel went above the normal efficiency range of that silicon, so it behaves - at stock, with power limits removed - like a substantially overclocked CPU would have behaved in the past. Meaning, the power draw is very high already, and the efficiency is quite low. If you still try to go above that with OC, you will see that the performance will hardly scale anymore, but the power draw and heat from the additional voltage required will rise very steeply. This is why, contrary to past CPU generations, there is very little to gain by overclocking these new CPUs anymore. On the contrary, if you factor in the power consumption and thus calculation efficiency, which can suffer a lot.

It's much more beneficial to fine-tune the RAM. Granted, even RAM OC is now largely limited to DDR4-3600, which is the new sweet spot. Because above it, you are forced to enter Gear 2 mode, where the memory controller runs with half the frequency of the RAM, which causes a serious performance loss. Just like on AMD, it's now best to stick to 3600 and optimize the timings. But if you are able to optimize the timings properly, depending on your modules, this can do more for you than CPU overclocking, without any of the downsides in power consumption and heat output.
 

TurboJLo

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I get what you are saying but there are some improvements to be had and it takes a few seconds to overclock so why not? Gains shown here:

My NZXT Z73 360mm had no problems with the temps. Core temps under stress testing were ~70*C
I don't mind the higher energy consumption. My house is solar power and my excess energy goes to the grid for energy credits that I can never turn into $ and my PSU has power to spare and is the highest efficiency rating.

The ONLY issue I have when overclocked is resume is broken and I'd like to keep this thread on topic and looking for a fix for that. I get what people are saying about it being a driver or Windows update issue but why would that ONLY affect it when overclocked and sleep/resume works with the same Windows version or driver version when set to "auto" on everything?

Logically the issue is with the BIOS/motherboard. As I said above I did revert to the prior BIOS released in Feb and the problem remains. My MSI Z390 didn't have any issues and the MSI Z590 and i7 are the ONLY things that changed in my build.
 

TurboJLo

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If they don't even know there is an issue to fix then the next BIOS probably won't address it.
Do you know if there a support/bug email address or contact form to make them aware of this issue aside from these forums?
 

TurboJLo

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Thanks citay I pulled a ticket...we'll see what they say (if anything...)

Haven't ever had a need to use MSI support or MSI forums in the past yet I've owned a ton of MSI gear going back to at least 2010. Guess that's a compliment to them!
 

TurboJLo

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Already received a useless reply from support.
Generic reply copy/paste reply saying to remove the battery or reset the BIOS to factory and test out components 1 by 1 and then to submit an RMA ticket. Easier just to return to Amazon and get something else...
 

citay

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I've had to deal with two or three BIOS bugs on MSI boards in the past, and even though i never bothered to report them (because i could work around them), MSI happened to fix them in later BIOS versions. Nowadays i would report a bug, especially if there's not a good workaround or an older BIOS version where it doesn't happen. If the bug isn't too obscure, sooner or later they should even notice it by themselves.

I would at least wait for the next BIOS before taking any drastic action. I would probably not even change the board, i'd sooner get an 11900K if i wanted more performance, although i don't like that CPU too much... But i guess the idea is the excitement of the "free gains" you have with OC. In your case, literally (solar power).
 

TurboJLo

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I understand your point that I don't NEED to overclock this system. You are right it is excessive.
But when spending $350 on a motherboard that advertises this feature I'd like it to be working correctly and useable even if I don't need it or use it. Waiting for a new BIOS could be weeks or months and there is no guarantee of a new BIOS fixing this issue. Better to return to Amazon within the 30 day window and go with a different board.
 

citay

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For me, time is money too. I'd rather live with a bug - if it's not critical - than replace the whole board, which all in all can cause many hours of work, assuming you'd also do a fresh Win10 install.
I've had my Rocket Lake system "in testing" in another case for a good month, because i kept using my old system and procrastinated all the work that the switch included. Eventually got it done, and now i don't wanna do it again anytime soon.
 

TurboJLo

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I have the same issue with my Z590 Gaming Carbon WiFi running 11700K.
Thank you so much for replying to this thread! Glad to know it isn't just me and that my thoughts on it being a BIOS issue are more likely.

If you find a solution please post it here, I'll do the same.
 
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