StarCam 370i - low quality colour

[szucsati]

Problem: If not using StarCam 370i in a sunny room the picture turns purple and the dark coloures come up incorrect as shown in the pictures below (correct firs, SC second).

(Supposed) explanation: We found it is because of the lack/faulty (? not sure yet) of an IR filter layer. Probably the cam was designed like this to be able to work in night mode. Please read this article to understand the necessity of the IR filter and read through the topic for details (especially from this post).

Solution: Use an energy saving (neon based) bulb. It produces less IR light than the normal light bulbs. Please read this post.

Will update this post if we figure out anything important.

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Original first post:
Hi!

I asked my sister to bring a StarCam 370i for me from the UK. I got it, it's cool but I'm very disappointed about the coloures. It looks like it doesn't like dark coloures. My black t-shirt is light grey, my dark blue one is light purple, my darg green chair is also light purple...

I tried to adjust the colour settings but couldn't set it up. Is this normal? What can be wrong?
I use the latest driver from the msi webpage (she left the CD in Englang ).

thx

 

[keeboudi]

Anybody solve this mystery yet?

I have the same colour problems everything looks a bit 'ghostly'. Most noticable are blacks looking purple. I also noticed that different materials show up differently ... for example a black pullover looks purple but a black pencap looks black.

Other people are also having colour problems -- see reviews here:
Reviews

This made me think that the lens/sensor may be infra-red sensitive (perhaps by design so that the night-vision feature works well).

I remember seeing weird colours like this when we used to shoot to 35mm infra-red film (anybody remember film? ?)

One way to check this theory would be to place an infra-red filter in front of the lens but hey, I don't have one to hand!

Dr Stu -- how did you attach the snapshots to your post? I couldn't figure it out...

 

[Stu]

Dr Stu -- how did you attach the snapshots to your post? I couldn't figure it out...

not everyone has these special powers

you can still upload them somewhere and link to them, there is info in a sticky in the Forum Info board on how to do it

 

[keeboudi]

Dr Stu ... special powers indeed!
I did the upload/link thing for the example.
Has anybody managed to solve the colour problem?

 

[Stu]

i think its something i will get used to. if i had paid ?40 for this camera i would be very disappointed. but for ?17, i can't complain :grin:

 

[szucsati]

But how could one of callan's cam be good? Why are there some that produce good image quality? I'm still very disappointed .

Is there any other webcams with infra leds?

 

[Tiresmoke]

Are you using the Infra Red during daylight? I thought that was only for nightvission type pics?

 

[keeboudi]

szucsati -- good point ... not sure why, different batch or different lighting conditions maybe. I think he said he had 2 different cameras (office/home) -- did he swap them over to see if the fault travelled with the camera?

Tiresmoke -- No I am not using the infra-red LEDs in the daytime ... everything gives off infrared and if the lens/sensor is sensitive to infre-red, then that may be the cause. However I am speculating.

I am not convinced it is a driver issue -- why do different black materials (to the naked eye) show up differently through the cam. This suggests to me that something is happening in the cam as opposed to further down the line.

If I manage to get hold of an of infra-red filter, I'll put the theory to test.

Just thinking it could even be UV as opposed to IR ... hmmmm

 

[attar]

Hi All

'Just bought one of these cams myself and been having the same problems.? I agree about the Infra Red ability of the camera which is kicking in even when it's being used in daylight.? Everything reacts to IR light in different ways.? That accounts for black clothing looking purple whilst a black plastic pen top would look black.

I took two pics of my favourite houseplant, one taken with the starcam and the other with my regular Canon digital camera.? See them at www.alanstreluk.co.uk/starcam.htm (how do you insert pics on this forum?)

You'll see that the colour chart is (pretty much) the same for both Starcam and Canon.? The plant however looks totally different cos it is reacting to the IR element of the sensor.

It seems that the Starcam "looks" in both the visible and Infrared spectrums at the same time.? Switching on the IR LEDs just adds more IR light, it doesn't switch on the a special IR sensor.? It guess that's what you get for 17 quid!?

With Callans pics the office one was taken in daylight so the visible light part of the sensor was seeing more than the IR one.? The home pics were taken in low light (by comparison) so the IR was more dominant.

That's my take on it anyway...

I'm going to e-mail MSI to see if the IR can be switched with a tweak to the software - I doubt whether I'll get any joy as the camera can't be a big money spinner for them!

Cheers

PS: Does anyone else wonder why they bothered with the regular white LEDs?? They only seem to light the camera's nasty foot-shaped base!

 

[keeboudi]

Having seen your plant shot, I am now convinced that the IR is not being filtered properly as the leaves of your money plant (what do you feed it ... it is huge!) look exactly like foliage shots on IR film.

I came accross this interesting article where he converts a normal webcam to a IR webcam by replacing a little IR filter which sits behind the lens with one that only lets through IR.

This suggests that sensors are IR sensitive and need to have it filtered out.

I wonder whether this filter is missing from the Starcam? Maybe even by design to make it work well in the 'nightmode'

If we are right about the IR thing then I doubt very much if it is possible fix it in software.

As for your PS -- I wondered too and found the answer on some MSI literature (can't remember where) ... it is not to light your face but is supposed to be used as an LED torch to light your keyboard in the dark (like those bendy USB lights) ... very useful?

 

[attar]

Very interesting article about changing a regular cam to an IR - who would have thought that a bit of old neg film would have such an effect!

I think you're right that the IR isn't filtered out because of the night mode and It'll be a case of like it or lump it...? The e-mail I sent to MSI is currently marked as "opened"? (their online support system seems quite well organised) and I will copy the forum on their reply when I get it - keep your fingers crossed but don't hold your breath.

Thanks for the info on the white LEDs and as for my triffid of a plant, I just feed it plain old water!

 

[keeboudi]

Well curiosity got the better of me and I opened mine up to take a peek. See here

There does seem a filter at the back of the lens but maybe it is just not man enough for the job -- maybe by design. I wish I could get my hands on an IR filter to check to see if this would cure it.

I also wrote to MSI but I think they'll probably just ask me to send it back rather than waste time on it.

Let's see what happens.

 

[attar]

Congratulations for taking the initiative and opening the cam up!  At least you seem to have have got the most of your purchase in one piece and in many!  17 quid well spent...

It was interesting to see the filter inside even if it's not up for the job - lets see what MSI have got to say...

Cheers

 

[szucsati]

Yes, it is right, the sensor is IR sensitive even if the IR LEDs are off, just see these pictures of my SE t630's infraport:

IR OFF

IR ON

Wonder if there's a material at home that fills out the ir lights...

My one had something in it so I took a screwdriver and opened it. Ther was a little piece of plastik that made the noise. I thought the cam was broken or something but it was just a mistake of the manufactoring.
I aslo found that article a few days ago. I didn't check the lense for that film.

 

[keeboudi]

attar: Of course I did manage to put it back together successfully as well.

I suggest only to open the beastie up if you are confident -- I spent over 10 years as a hardware engineer. :grin:

Then again there is no reason to do so ... unless one wants to kill the annoying bottom shooting LED's which some genius decided should always come on when the Starcam powers up.

szucsati: good bit of lateral thinking there -- now to get our hands on a piece of IR blocking film!

 

[attar]

So Keeboudi, with your knowledge of all things hardware (and with a soldering iron and steady hand) do you think the white LEDs could be swapped for the IR ones?  Might the voltage/power match?  That way the base won't be lit and you can choose to add a little extra full spectrum light to stop you looking like Dracula when using the cam in low light! 

 

[keeboudi]

Hard to tell without looking at the circuit diagram or taking some measurements as the different kind of LEDs may be driven differently like you suggest.

Not sure I want to drag my oscilloscope out from storage just yet! I suppose one could go the 'suck it and see' route and just try it ... but hey, I am not responsible for any fried cams!

The soldering/de-soldering would also be a bit of a challenge for the inexperienced as it uses a double (or more) layer PCB.

May one suggest a table lamp??

If you really want to do it then let me know and I'll give u a few tips.

 

[attar]

Come back valves... all is forgiven!

Thanks for the warning... 

 

[szucsati]

It seems the film is on the sensor itself. Check this: LINK

There's a film on the brown socket. Invisible in the picture. I did the "remote controller test"  and the result is the sensor reacts for the infra light.

 

[szucsati]

Hm... I think I misunderstood the article (no wonder with my English..). So the 370i doesn't have an added stuff but it misses the infra filter wich is in (almost) every other cams.

"Looking at the lens assembly in the picture you can see a small square of glass stuck in the back. Though it appears clear in the picture above, it has a red tint to the eye as shown here. (...) This piece of glass is the Infra Red Filter. It stops IR light getting through to the sensor. For our purpose this is bad so remove this piece of glass."

 

[szucsati]

It's me again .

I had an idea. I tried if the lense of my other cam fits the StarCam and it did!! Here are the examples:

These were taken by the SC with the other lense. As it can be seen it's not perfect. The cam remained IR sensitive a little but it's much better! If I try the remote controllel test, the Mercury is IR sensitive with it's original lense. With the SC's lense everything comes up so ugly as with the original SC. So it looks like we found the problem!

One strange thing is with the Mercury's lense the SC reacts very slowly for the movement  . I need an IR filter layer into my cam! Maybe a removable one...