System Crash - Reliability Viewer shows CC_Engin.exe APPCRASH - Both Monitors - No Signal Detected

[snrtheroc15ae02e4]

Hi Team

Mine is a new MSI Pro Max A Motherboard, brand new. In 3 days, my system stopped with black screen and got "No Signal Detected". Before that (a day before), my system froze on start and had to power-off by pressing power button. When I checked the Reliability Viewer, I say CCEngine.exe APPCRASH and some Kernel errors. I will post them below. Please help me figure out a solution for this. Thanks


CCEngine.exe Crash:-
Description
Faulting Application Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI\MSI Center\Engine\CC_Engine_x64.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: CC_Engine_x64.exe
Application Version: 3.0.0.75
Application Timestamp: 66e2aae4
Fault Module Name: CC_Engine_x64.exe
Fault Module Version: 3.0.0.75
Fault Module Timestamp: 66e2aae4
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00000000006792d2
OS Version: 10.0.22631.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 16393
Additional Information 1: 1ec9
Additional Information 2: 1ec92fb1db8eb0e173815055892cb859
Additional Information 3: 62c7
Additional Information 4: 62c7c700ccf05aa70bd9b4a6c97c60f8

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: 4bc9d19da7b94b81ec024f21876db595 (2018262588440032661)


Kernel Related Error:
Description
A problem with your hardware caused Windows to stop working correctly.

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
Code: 141
Parameter 1: ffffcb023b159010
Parameter 2: fffff80084380d80
Parameter 3: 0
Parameter 4: 0
OS version: 10_0_22631
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
OS Version: 10.0.22631.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 16393

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: LKD_0x141_Tdr:6_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys_Ada


Smartscreen Error:
Description
Faulting Application Path: C:\Windows\System32\smartscreen.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: smartscreen.exe
Application Version: 10.0.22621.4111
Application Timestamp: 3e2a262f
Fault Module Name: KERNELBASE.dll
Fault Module Version: 10.0.22621.4111
Fault Module Timestamp: 03c619d0
Exception Code: e06d7363
Exception Offset: 000000000005fabc
OS Version: 10.0.22631.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 16393
Additional Information 1: 0627
Additional Information 2: 0627665ac1cfe832c6188a1f6e384f82
Additional Information 3: f0cf
Additional Information 4: f0cffd23bc4745eb985dcce2881d536e

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: d1c789ded650e704b6a13f035bb917cd (1630653823741138893)

 

[citay]

You have thermal throttling at and below 200W, but for a 240mm AIO this is to be expected, plus the 12700K will actually draw less power than this once you go by step 2) of the guide. But first, to protect your cooling, set the power limits to 180W and then check that the fan curves are set properly (both in the BIOS, and if you happen to use some software in Windows). The fans need to ramp up appropriately at high CPU temperatures, especially those on the radiator, which are rated for max. 1800 RPM. The system fans can be on a shallower curve, but the radiator fans, around 85°C-90°C they should go to 100%.

In step 2) you can try to lower the voltage. Now, this will be interesting, to see if it's somehow connected to the problems. If it is, the problems should get far worse once you try to lower it by a couple of steps. Otherwise, you will just get instability in a CPU stress test at some point.

After these two steps, your cooler should be able to handle this CPU, so then that would also be ruled out.

Then we see the RAM running at that very slow DDR5-4000, but we've been over that. Not much else that would point to a problem. Just keep testing things bit by bit.

 

[snrtheroc15ae02e4]

Can you give me a video that is related to MSI Motherboard to set the fan curve and maybe limiting to 180W and voltage? I read though your fan curve article, it's too technical for me.

I have MSI Afterburner installed, my friend tried under voltating using it (that is what he said) and I ran the Cinebench with that also. I'm attaching those here FYI.

If you can share a video tutorial it will be very helpful. I read though your fan curve article, it's too technical for me. Sorry for the trouble.

FYI, the one I shared earlier, I ran it without any modification, at that time MSI Afterburner is not even installed, this test, after the the one I shared earlier.

 

[citay]

Can you give me a video that is related to MSI Motherboard to set the fan curve and maybe limiting to 180W and voltage? I read though your fan curve article, it's too technical for me.

Go to "OC \ Advanced CPU Configuration" in the BIOS. You may have to press F7 first to set the BIOS to advanced view (and by the way, F10 means save & exit in the BIOS). The power limits are called "Long Duration / Short Duration power limit". You can set both to 180W by simply highlighting them and typing 180 and Enter.

So there where it says Auto now, you'd enter 180 and press Enter, then go two settings below, and do the same for the Short Duration Power Limit.

For the fans, again, not that complicated in the end. You want to use Smart Fan, you want the first point at maybe 35°C and low RPM, then two middle points which are gradually moving the curve upwards, then full speed at 90°C. If you have 4-pin fans, you use PWM control (normally this is the case nowadays), 3-pin fans would not change their speed on PWM control, so that's a sign to use DC Voltage control instead.

For the fans, in idle you can even go down to below 500 RPM, if they can run at that speed. Then have them go to 100% fan speed at 90°C. So you'd set the bottom point of the fan curve so they run at 500 RPM at around the 35°C point, then two in-between curve points when it gradually goes up (for example at 50°C and at 75°C), and full speed for 90°C.

Example curve for one of my Noctua CPU fans:
35°C -> 20% speed (PWM control selected)
50°C -> 30%
75°C -> 67%
90°C -> 100%

Looks like this:

 

[citay]

I have MSI Afterburner installed, my friend tried under voltating using it (that is what he said) and I ran the Cinebench with that also. I'm attaching those here FYI.

Why did he do that? Afterburner is only about the GPU, not the CPU. And he set some weird stuff there. It's better to delete that profile and uninstall Afterburner, or do the undervolting properly, not what he did. Ok, maybe he did it only like that for a quick test. But we already know the GPU is not the cause of everything, because you replaced it already. Unless your system generally has a problem with this specific GPU model, but then we just go back to this reply: Simply take out the GPU and use the iGPU of the CPU. No need to mess around with Afterburner when you can completely take the GPU out of the equasion.

How frequent are your problems now, by the way?

 

[snrtheroc15ae02e4]

Hi Citay,

Thanks for detailed steps, I did some testing these couple of days, with different mode (CPU Lite Load), It was in default Auto witch was Mode 16, I checked from Mode 8 to 5, I found only mode 5 was stable, with AI CEP Disabled. It worked flawless for few days (3 days), I ran cinebench and got 1220 (My system's Highest score), and ran Prime95 - My system Froze when running Prime95.

After running without crashing for few days, now it starts to crash again in Mode 5, AI CEP Disabled - Volt limited (Long and Short Duration Power Limit (W)) to 180W.

One New thing is now when it crash, it automatically reboots. I also observed some Secure boot error in the "event viewer", and also now when I run sfc /scannow I get windows corrupt files all the time. I haven't reset recently, My last clean OS installation was before when we started the CPU Throttling test, which is 10 days ago. I have attached screenshots for most of them.

 

[citay]

My system Froze when running Prime95.

Any instability, raise the mode again and re-test. Lowering the mode (and thus the voltage) will make it unstable at some point, and raising the mode/voltage can make it more stable again.

and also now when I run sfc /scannow I get windows corrupt files all the time.

It will find one or two corrupt files on a lot of systems, even those that have never once been unstable. Windows is highly complex, some update sets a wrong flag for a file or so, and it will subsequently show as corrupt on a scan. You'd have to go through the log file to see if it's actually any more than that.

Your fan curves are still weird (you cannot reach 11°C CPU temperature unless you use liquid nitrogen cooling), i mentioned before how to set them a bit better, and you obviously don't need to photograph fan curves for headers where there's no fan attached. By the way, to make perfect BIOS screenshots, F12 saves a screenshot to a FAT32 USB drive, then you'd convert from BMP to PNG for size to upload here.

 

[snrtheroc15ae02e4]

I understand, I will re-check again playing with modes and volts, can you give me how far I can go with volt? I remember earlier default is 120, I know I shouldn't go for 120.

I will check again on the Fan curves, I just don't know how fan curve should look for my set up and for the problem. I read through the article, when setting it up, the temp and RPM seems confusing, I mean don't know what RPM should I keep for particular temp and sorry for the poor screenshots, I had no thump drive at that time, I will take it and share them using F12 from next time around.

One last doubt about IA CEP - Should I keep it Disabled? or should I test with particular mode with IA CEP enabled and another with AI CEP Disabled?

Bro, Thanks again for all the help. I can't thank enough.

 

[citay]

can you give me how far I can go with volt? I remember earlier default is 120, I know I shouldn't go for 120.

120 what? The default was CPU Lite Load mode 16 for you in the new BIOS. This is too high for most CPUs (unless it's a degraded one).

Two posts above your one with the screenshot, i showed how a fan curve should look, with some example values which work well for my fans. My fans have a 4-pin plug, so i use PWM control, which works with a PWM percentage. I explain all this in detail in my fan curves guide. If you have fans with a 3-pin plug, you use voltage control instead, but the curves should still look similar, and the first point should be at 35°C. In idle, aim for low RPM, as low as your fans can go (mine can go below 500 RPM, not all can, some may have 800 RPM as their low limit). They only need to spin faster when the CPU gets hotter.

If you go below Mode 10 or so with CPU Lite Load, then IA CEP Support has to be disabled. Otherwise it will kill your performance.

 

[snrtheroc15ae02e4]

Understand, sorry, for the typo, I was asking before we changed the volt, earlier it was at 220/200W, it made CPU to throttle. My question was how far I can go if I'm increasing and testing the volt, currently it is at 180W.

I want to know, do we know what is the issue? or anything is at fault like CPU or any other parts causing the issue? or all parts are good, it's just matter of optimizing them?

 

[citay]

Using CPU Lite Load, you can see if more voltage adds stability again, if you raise the mode from the one where you had Prime95 freeze. Adding voltage or lowering the frequency, those are the main two tools for adding stability from the CPU side. Now, if this is a dead end to get a grip on your overarching problems, then we have to troubleshoot more.

For example, you can check the CPU socket for bent pins. For that you would take off the CPU cooler, take out the CPU, and check for bent pins inside the CPU socket, which can easily happen from some mistake during CPU installation. Also see here and the following posts. While they are technically all bent, the pins all have to look completely uniform under light, the tips of the pins have to line up in a perfect pattern, with none visually sticking out from the rest. So if you have some pins that don't look like the others, then you really have some bent pins. Ideally take some photos of the socket, upload to an image hoster and link them here, even if you don't think there are bent pins (sometimes they are not that easy to spot for the untrained eye). Bent pins can cause a number of weird problems that are seemingly inexplicable.

 

[snrtheroc15ae02e4]

Thanks for the clarification, I will do some checks and get back to you in couple of days with my observation. Thanks again. Happy Weekend!!!

 

[snrtheroc15ae02e4]

Hi Citay,

Good Moring.

I did extensive checks by changing Modes and power between 180 and 190. This is my current state, I can see a pattern,

Once I turn on and open any game within 10 to 20 minutes of booting, it crashes, then I go to BIOS and change mode, boot again, and do some regular browsing for 45 minutes to an hour then go to the game, the chance of crashing is less. If I go without changing the Mode when it crashes it will crash again.

I don't understand why it's working this way. I didn't check the bent pins, I don't want to open them myself fear of causing damage, I will take it to the PC builder that I built this PC from and let them check for bent pins sometime next week.