WARNING! The latest BIOS from 01/22/25 for the MSI X870 Tomahawk Wifi does not work!

[cedric39o155e02d8]

Hello everyone,

Just to inform you, I tried updating the BIOS today (01/22/25) using the following link:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-X870-TOMAHAWK-WIFI/support

Version: 7E51v1A24

I updated the BIOS without any particular issues, but after the reboot, the PC kept restarting in a loop (without displaying anything on the screen!).

I tried clearing the CMOS = no result.

I also tried re-downloading the BIOS and using the button on the back of the motherboard = no result.

I started to panic a little, so I reverted to the BIOS version from 01/02/25 (7E51v1A2), reflashed it using the button on the back of the motherboard, and the PC booted up normally!

Has anyone else encountered this issue?
Thanks.

 

[John Cuppi]

I was finally able to submit a Web ticket for the 0d error randomly occurring on restarts. I am awaiting a reply.

I have received this too 0d error randomly, too but thought it was maybe just from me screwing around with CO...

Could you guys check this for me? When I show hidden devices in Device Manager, I can see 'Other Devices' > 'Unknown Device (USB4 Host Router).' The device instance path is 'USB4\VIRTUAL_POWER_PDO'. This unknown device has been there since day one, regardless of the BIOS or chipset driver version. I thought it might just be an issue with the buggy beta BIOS, so I’ve ignored it until now. But since no one seems to mention this, I’m starting to wonder if it’s a problem specific to my motherboard. Do you also see this in your Device Manager? (need to enable 'Show hidden devices' to see it.)

Yes, I see this too, an unknown USB device that windows says is working correctly.

 

[John Cuppi]

Below is what I have set for PBO and so on.

Nice I can see you've taken a lot of time to dial all of that in. Does that pass tests like AID64 and OCCT?

 

[DP-TOOFUNX]

Nice I can see you've taken a lot of time to dial all of that in. Does that pass tests like AID64 and OCCT?

I run 30 min Stress Test in Cinebench 23 and no issue.

 

[John Cuppi]

I run 30 min Stress Test in Cinebench 23 and no issue.

I can pass Cinebench 2024 actually... but AID64 picking something up and OCCT knocks it out almost right away.

 

[DP-TOOFUNX]

I can pass Cinebench 2024 actually... but AID64 picking something up and OCCT knocks it out almost right away.

Do you have a Screenshot of what OCCT are throwing? Which test are you running in OCCT? I am running a CPU + RAM Test now in OCCT.

 

[Alyred]

CPU+RAM test using AVX512 steady workloads are usually what got mine to fail after a bit. CPU or RAM alone tested fine for hours. Could only get it stable downclocking my RAM and turning off PBO/CO. However, those results for me COULD have been related to bad latency spikes due to the bad network card drivers? I'll start testing again when I have some time.

 

[graycorgi]

This latest BIOS is no good. Two main problems:

1: Stuck in boot loop and never POST if a USB hub is connected. Even disabling "legacy usb support" does not fix it. I have to physically unplug the hub to get it to boot. Was not an issue in previous BIOS that I recall.

2: Very unstable compared to previous BIOS. I have 2x32GB DDR5 6400MHz sticks. On previous BIOS, never any issues running Curve Offset -20 & AXMP memory profile of 6400MHz. On current BIOS with those settings, I get random blue screens at idle. PC passes memory tests and stress tests, but sitting idle doing nothing it will eventually BSOD. I noticed the "Auto" VSOC is set to a shockingly high 1.315V. I disable my curve offset and lower my memory clocks to 6000MHz, and suddenly "Auto" VSOC returns to a normal 1.21V. Something very strange is going on with this BIOS and I think I will roll back to the previous version due to the instability.

 

[Alyred]

This latest BIOS is no good. Two main problems:

1: Stuck in boot loop and never POST if a USB hub is connected. Even disabling "legacy usb support" does not fix it. I have to physically unplug the hub to get it to boot. Was not an issue in previous BIOS that I recall.

2: Very unstable compared to previous BIOS. I have 2x32GB DDR5 6400MHz sticks. On previous BIOS, never any issues running Curve Offset -20 & AXMP memory profile of 6400MHz. On current BIOS with those settings, I get random blue screens at idle. PC passes memory tests and stress tests, but sitting idle doing nothing it will eventually BSOD. I noticed the "Auto" VSOC is set to a shockingly high 1.315V. I disable my curve offset and lower my memory clocks to 6000MHz, and suddenly "Auto" VSOC returns to a normal 1.21V. Something very strange is going on with this BIOS and I think I will roll back to the previous version due to the instability.

Unfortunate to hear that disabling Legacy USB didn't work for you. I definitely agree RAM timings and voltages are weird on this BIOS. XMP profiles set the VSoC to 1.3 (which is technically still within spec for the AM5 processors, though maximum) and I dialed mine back manually using the AMD Overclocking option and set it to 1.29 or 1.28, I forget which, but has been stable with 6200. Hoping the new BIOS gets more stuff stable though. Definitely annoyed at the time it's taking to fix bugs and get this stable.

 

[DP-TOOFUNX]

I can pass Cinebench 2024 actually... but AID64 picking something up and OCCT knocks it out almost right away.

Ran the full 1 hr test in OCCT and no errors.

Re-Ran Test with AVX512

 

[magikmau157902db]

Yes, I see this too, an unknown USB device that windows says is working correctly.

Thank you for your reply. Both seem to be the same device, but for some reason, mine shows as 'unknown device' instead of 'usb4 virtual power coordination device.' Also, the 'location' shows as 'usb4 host router' instead of 'usb4 domain.' I am currently using A2 BIOS and Windows 11.

 

[hullbreachdetecte156102dc]

Do either/any of you have stable undervolt settings? I'm failing OCCT even with -10 and -5 all core, I don't get it. I ended up having to reflash the bios actually because I couldn't get it to take the stock settings back again, which is weird as hell. Also I'm either the unluckiest 9800x3d buyer alive, or I'm doing something wrong. I'm not overclocking anything, just setting a CO, but I didn't have any luck with stability on the previous bios for this either...

You are not unlucky or bad at silicon lottery, this seems to be exclusive to MSI x870/x870e + 9800x3d combo and I believe it is BIOS issue.

I used to trial and error those issues, back in December. Basically my findings, something in AIDA64 and OCCT tests abruptly ramps up CPU temps above 105C threshold and causes immediate emergency shutdown. Cinebench R23/R24 does not cause this phenomenon, as matter of fact I am barely pushing 75C in multi core test at 5500MHz on CPU diode, so it's definitely not a cooling issue. The funny part is that I have a full custom waterloop Optimus Signature V3 REV2 CPU Block sitting on top of the CPU. Just to ensure this isn't a cooling issue, I have manually put all pumps (I am running 3x D5 pumps in series getting >1gpm flow rate) and all fans (I have 30x Noctua A12s) on 100% RPM, and it made no change, the CPU temps ramp up past 105C in a nanosecond as soon as OCCT or AIDA64 test starts.

But for now I have found an alternative to test stable CPU OC. I used an app called "Wabbajack", which is used to download large modpacks for various games (e.g. Skyrim) and that app will force 100% utilisation out of your CPU resources and if you have unstable OC it will crash your Windows guaranteed. Not exactly designed to benchmarks but it works the same way. This should work until MSI/AMD sorts out these issues. It does require some things to be set up.

But otherwise I suggest just try different clock speeds and run CB R23/24 on multi core to see if you can pass or notice anything. If all seems okay just go with it until you fail, then just back down 50MHz, and play a few games to see if you get crashes/stutters.

Another thing I suggest is not to run PBO and manual OC at the same time. Do either, but not both simultaneously. In my case doing so resulted in frequent stutters in games.

 

[justos91]

fwiw im on a 9800x3d with x870e carbon wifi and after the latest bios, my -40 undervolt remains stable. i dont use a usb hub though

my main issue is related to the lan drivers. I get consistent system stutters with them. After disabling 2.5gbe and 5gbe in the device manager, its smooth sailing

 

[stanzacha159e02e5]

Hello everyone,

Just to inform you, I tried updating the BIOS today (01/22/25) using the following link:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-X870-TOMAHAWK-WIFI/support

Version: 7E51v1A24

I updated the BIOS without any particular issues, but after the reboot, the PC kept restarting in a loop (without displaying anything on the screen!).

I tried clearing the CMOS = no result.

I also tried re-downloading the BIOS and using the button on the back of the motherboard = no result.

I started to panic a little, so I reverted to the BIOS version from 01/02/25 (7E51v1A2), reflashed it using the button on the back of the motherboard, and the PC booted up normally!

Has anyone else encountered this issue?
Thanks.

 

[stanzacha159e02e5]

Hello everyone,

Just to inform you, I tried updating the BIOS today (01/22/25) using the following link:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-X870-TOMAHAWK-WIFI/support

Version: 7E51v1A24

I updated the BIOS without any particular issues, but after the reboot, the PC kept restarting in a loop (without displaying anything on the screen!).

I tried clearing the CMOS = no result.

I also tried re-downloading the BIOS and using the button on the back of the motherboard = no result.

I started to panic a little, so I reverted to the BIOS version from 01/02/25 (7E51v1A2), reflashed it using the button on the back of the motherboard, and the PC booted up normally!

Has anyone else encountered this issue?
Thanks.

Yep same to me....

 

[stanzacha159e02e5]

Hello everyone,

Just to inform you, I tried updating the BIOS today (01/22/25) using the following link:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-X870-TOMAHAWK-WIFI/support

Version: 7E51v1A24

I updated the BIOS without any particular issues, but after the reboot, the PC kept restarting in a loop (without displaying anything on the screen!).

I tried clearing the CMOS = no result.

I also tried re-downloading the BIOS and using the button on the back of the motherboard = no result.

I started to panic a little, so I reverted to the BIOS version from 01/02/25 (7E51v1A2), reflashed it using the button on the back of the motherboard, and the PC booted up normally!

Has anyone else encountered this issue?
Thanks.

Yep same to me

 

[John Cuppi]

You are not unlucky or bad at silicon lottery, this seems to be exclusive to MSI x870/x870e + 9800x3d combo and I believe it is BIOS issue. [..]

Thanks for the reply, it's very interesting.

I am currently stable with OCCT and AID64 with no undervolt/CO set and PBO is on 'Auto' or default.
Default bios configuration overall with the exception of MCR=disabled and PDE=disabled and all of my fans boosted to 100% constantly:



I am kind of tired of trying to get undervolting to work so I will probably just let it go but thanks for at least confirming (along with seeing some posts from others) that it's not just me.

 

[mrheckma159a02e0]

Hello everyone,

Just to inform you, I tried updating the BIOS today (01/22/25) using the following link:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-X870-TOMAHAWK-WIFI/support

Version: 7E51v1A24

I updated the BIOS without any particular issues, but after the reboot, the PC kept restarting in a loop (without displaying anything on the screen!).

I tried clearing the CMOS = no result.

I also tried re-downloading the BIOS and using the button on the back of the motherboard = no result.

I started to panic a little, so I reverted to the BIOS version from 01/02/25 (7E51v1A2), reflashed it using the button on the back of the motherboard, and the PC booted up normally!

Has anyone else encountered this issue?
Thanks.

I have the same problem with the A24 BIOS. I was able to boot only when I disconnected all USB devices (three hubs) from the rear USB ports (except for the USB-c, which is connected to a monitor). I wonder if the people who reported no problems have any USB hubs, or any devices, plugged into the rear ports.

I can plug the USB devices in after the computer boots and they work fine. But I need my USB devices, so I reverted to the A20 BIOS. Fingers crossed for A28, or whatever they call the next version.

Frankly, I'm very sorry I bought this motherboard. It has taken me many extra hours of debugging that should rightly have been done by MSI, not by users. And it still doesn't work right in some ways. When friends ask me how I like it, I tell them, if they insist on buying MSI, buy an older generation model that has been thoroughly tested. This board isn't ready, and won't be for some time to come, it seems.

Case: Fractal Define 7, FD-C-DEF7A-01 (https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/define/define-7/)
Board: MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI
BIOS: 7E51v1A2
VGA: GeForce RTX 4070 VENTUS 2X 12G OC ;
Riser Cable: none
PSU: MPG A850G PCIE5 (https://www.msi.com/Power-Supply/MPG-A850G-PCIE5/Specification)
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 9900X
MEM: Silicon Power DDR5 Zenith 6000MT/s (PC5-48000) 288-pin CL30 1.35V UDIMM Desktop Memory Module RAM SP032GXLWU60AFSG x2 (64GB total)
HDD/SSD: Crucial T705 2TB PCIe Gen5 NVMe M.S SSD (main drive); Western Digital 4TB WD Red Plus NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD - 5400 RPM, SATA (backup)
COOLER: Lian Li Galahad II Trinity 240MM- AIO
Keyboard: Logitech K740 USB
Mouse: Logitech M720 USB wireless
OC: RAM EXPO only (PBO auto)
OS: Windows 11 Home 64bit 24H2
Display: Three monitors: One connected to integrated graphics HDMI, one to integrated graphics Type-C (converted to DP), one to the discrete graphics card
- Is it a TV?: No
- How display is connected to the GPU?: HDMI / DP / Type-C

 

[John Cuppi]

I wonder if the people who reported no problems have any USB hubs, or any devices, plugged into the rear ports.

Raising my hand here to say no problems with being unable to boot, but you are correct I have no USB hub connected. I have an older USB hub somewhere I can dig out and try later. Right now I have a basic keyboard, mouse (plugged into the red ports) and I've had a couple of flash drives plugged in (to the blue ports) and that's it at the moment while I've been using the newest BIOS.

 

[ultimatecodewarrio155e02db]

I Just got this board, it has a BIOS from E7E51AMSI.1A10 8/14/2024. I tried flashing the 7E51v1A2 today and it said Error! This BIOS is not a MSI BiOS update will ignore!!

Error Code: 100000001 something

Do I have to leap frog Bios update after Bios update or can I go straight to the most recent known good?

The only thing I see right now with it is that it Sees my Coursair Vengance Ram as 4800 M/T rather than 6400 MT. This is annoying thinking that performance will be hampered.

No, 7E51v1A1F is one of the worst BIOS versions next to 7E51v1A24. The BIOS crashes reproducibly when numbers are entered.

Either 7E51v1A2 or 7E51v1A1A. These are, if you want to describe it in a very positive way, the best, but also not error-free versions.

 

[mrheckma159a02e0]

I Just got this board, it has a BIOS from E7E51AMSI.1A10 8/14/2024. I tried flashing the 7E51v1A2 today and it said Error! This BIOS is not a MSI BiOS update will ignore!!

Error Code: 100000001 something

Do I have to leap frog Bios update after Bios update or can I go straight to the most recent known good?

The only thing I see right now with it is that it Sees my Coursair Vengance Ram as 4800 M/T rather than 6400 MT. This is annoying thinking that performance will be hampered.

You should be able to install any valid BIOS, in any order. Perhaps the file is corrupted? Try downloading it again.

Another thought: How are you trying to flash the BIOS? Are you booting to the BIOS and using the M-Flash utility, or are you using the Flash BIOS button? If the latter, did you rename the BIOS image file to MSI.ROM, as it says in this instruction web page https://www.msi.com/support/technical_details/MB_Flash_BIOS_Button ?