!!! Warning: Z490 boards - problem with recent BIOS updates !!!

Jaz157202e1

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Wait a second, don't tell me you haven't maxed out the power limits in the BIOS? Then your OC would be basically for nothing...

View attachment 155695
"(with Limits in PL2)"
No wonder you have no real problem cooling that, the high VCore gets negated by the CPU hitting the power limit prematurely. It can't draw more power no matter what.
Also, i'd use HWinfo64 Sensors for monitoring, it's superior.

But we're straying further and further away from this topic. It would be better if you made a new topic for further discussion of these issues.
You clearly have more experience than me, there's not doubting it. The last time I overclocked a CPU was back when FX was the only AMD offering, so it's safe to say I have no clue what I'm doing half the time. Although the overall pointlessness of the overclock managed to net me 7FPS in Arma3 ultimately achieving above 60FPS. Anyways, Thanks for the enlightenment.
 

citay

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Although the overall pointlessness of the overclock managed to net me 7FPS in Arma3 ultimately achieving above 60FPS.
That's simply because in games, the CPU is not nearly at such a load level and thus power consumption as it would be for example in Cinebench R23. This goes back a bit to the post i linked here.

With different load, you have different power consumption. So in games, your GPU is far more loaded than your CPU, but obviously the CPU still has some influence on the overall performance. Since the CPU doesn't run into the power limit (which seems to still be active in your BIOS), because the load is less demanding in games, it can actually clock higher and your OC can achieve something. However, with more demanding load, such as encoding, rendering, in short, any real full multi-core CPU load, the CPU hits the ceiling of the power limit, which also restricts the performance. So once you fully load your CPU in a more demanding way than in games, your CPU performance might very well drop below the level you could have achieved by simply removing the power limits in the BIOS and not overclocking at all. That's what i meant with "it would basically be for nothing".

So if you want your OC to truly be effective with any kind of load, no matter how demanding, you'd have to max out the power limits. They are found on this page:

bios_26-copy.jpg


Short and Long Duration 4096W, Current Limit 256A, or by selecting "Water Cooler" here:

MSI_MPG_Z490_GAMING_CARBON_WIFI_060_75EFA207D6D041C38CAE2AE340EE9036.jpg


But while you're now still seeing under 90°C with a mere 220W due to the power limits, prepare for your cooling to be utterly overwhelmed then. This is the true consequence of such overclocking.
And by no means would i advise this with your CPU, because the efficiency goes to hell, even if you could cool it.

If all of my assumptions are correct (and they aren't always, i will freely admit that), then you have essentially overclocked for less demanding scenarios only, and with more demanding scenarios you might even lose performance, compared to just maxing out the power limits without any OC whatsoever.
 
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Jaz157202e1

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That's simply because in games, the CPU is not nearly at such a load level and thus power consumption as it would be for example in Cinebench R23. This goes back a bit to the post i linked here.

With different load, you have different power consumption. So in games, your GPU is far more loaded than your CPU, but obviously the CPU still has some influence on the overall performance. Since the CPU doesn't run into the power limit (which seems to still be active in your BIOS), because the load is less demanding in games, it can actually clock higher and your OC can achieve something. However, with more demanding load, such as encoding, rendering, in short, any real full multi-core CPU load, the CPU hits the ceiling of the power limit, which also restricts the performance. So once you fully load your CPU in a more demanding way than in games, your CPU performance might very well drop below the level you could have achieved by simply removing the power limits in the BIOS and not overclocking at all. That's what i meant with "it would basically be for nothing".

So if you want your OC to truly be effective with any kind of load, no matter how demanding, you'd have to max out the power limits. They are found on this page:

bios_26-copy.jpg


Short and Long Duration 4096W, Current Limit 256A, or by selecting "Water Cooler" here:

MSI_MPG_Z490_GAMING_CARBON_WIFI_060_75EFA207D6D041C38CAE2AE340EE9036.jpg


But while you're now still seeing under 90°C with a mere 220W due to the power limits, prepare for your cooling to be utterly overwhelmed then. This is the true consequence of such overclocking.
And by no means would i advise this with your CPU, because the efficiency goes to hell, even if you could cool it.

If all of my assumptions are correct (and they aren't always, i will freely admit that), then you have essentially overclocked for less demanding scenarios only, and with more demanding scenarios you might even lose performance, compared to just maxing out the power limits without any OC whatsoever.
Arma3 is CPU heavy, I tested it with a RX580, GTX 1660S, RX5700 XT, RTX 2070 , RTX 3080 & 3080TI they all achieved the same performance in my unscientific experiment. The entire purpose of the overclock was to gain more performance in Arma3. As for any other game or application I absolutely agree with you. I'm fairly certain I had theses settings on "Short and Long Duration 4096W, Current Limit 256A".
P.S. I don't own any of the RTX cards sadly.
 

Rhybry

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Short update - flashed 7C71vAB for Z490 Unify in the first attempt via flash button.
 

citay

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Arma3 is CPU heavy
This should be visible in HWinfo64 then, by the amount of CPU power draw. If you open the sensors and double-click on CPU Package Power, it will show a graph that tracks CPU power draw over time. Then start your game and play a bit. After exiting it, you will have the graph of the power draw right there. Usually in games it should stay well below 200W power draw for the CPU. So whatever is limiting to 220W maximum power draw, it's not a factor with that kind of load. Ok, if the CPU draws 200W or more in that game, then it really is CPU-heavy for a game. But i'd like to see that.

I'm fairly certain I had theses settings on "Short and Long Duration 4096W, Current Limit 256A".
That's odd then that it would peak at 220W, which coincides with the non-overclocked power draw from the pictures. And you said the CPU temperatures are still not hitting the high 90s, which would be thermal throttling territory. Maybe there's some other factor involved, like VRM throttling, which would not be immediately obvious. I can only say, with 5.2 GHz all-core @1.385V, you should be seeing well over 300W CPU power draw and your cooling should be in a lot of trouble. Maybe something already is in trouble and there's some sort of liming/throttling at play. All the more reason to have a look at all the sensors in HWinfo64 with different kinds of load. Again, my offer, create a new topic and we could dive a little deeper into that.


Short update - flashed 7C71vAB for Z490 Unify in the first attempt via flash button.
Good job!
 

gille158a02e4

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Adding another dissatisfied customer to the list of bricked Z490 boards :-(

Date of failed flashing: Jan 18, 2022
Affected board model: MPG Z490 GAMING CARBON WIFI
CPU: Intel Core i5-10600K
Flashing method used: Dragon Center
Attempted update to BIOS version: 7C73v1A (Windows 11 Update)
Result: Stuck at EZ Debug LED "CPU" after update.


Will reach out to MSI, and hope they offer a solution (replacement).
 

lordmage

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at this point i wont update my 7c79 almost a full year from discovery and updates still brick the board i might do it once i have a new board asus in hand in case it breaks aka when i am about to replace it anyway...
i suspect it was QC ERROR IN PRODUCTION that they could not correct in time or simply can not definitely say these serial ranges should be RMA'd similar to how asus handled the z690 issue....

either way given the complete lack of communication since oct 20 which i suspect was the result of something i did during a live session about dragon center during that month... i will be avoiding MSI going forward even if there is a proper flashback button. Asus just handed there issue better in my book. big props to OP @citay for his long endeavor to help us Z490 users.
 

Niska24

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Another one bites the dust. Oh how desperately I wish I knew about this thread before deciding to update for Windows 11... :( RMA was approved instantly and I have already shipped it via FedEx. Hopping for a quick turn around.

Date of failed flashing: January 20th, 2022
Affected board model: MEG Z490I UNIFY
CPU: Intel Core i9-10850K
Flashing method used: M-Flash
Attempted update to BIOS version: 7C73v1A
Result: Stuck at EZ Debug LED "CPU" after update.
 

jcp.garcia115e702ea

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Date of failed flashing: 11/23/2021
Motherboard model: Z490 Gaming Edge Wifi
CPU: i7-10700K
Flashing Method Used: Bios Flash
Attempted update to BIOS version: 7C79v1A (Windows 11 support)
Result: CPU led constantly on after updating to 7C79v1A. not booting.
Memory: TridentZ RGB 16GB (2x8) 3600mhz CL18 (XMP on)

pc was running perfectly prior to this bios version update, also running at stock cpu speeds (default bios settings) (enhanced turbo off)
tried removing cmos battery and clearing cmos, still did not work. will probably RMA it

UPDATE: got my board back. its the same unit i sent msi and got it after almost 2 months. they fixed it and is currently running 7C79v16. this is also the last stable bios version for me
 

Furna

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Basically, we need the help of someone with a Z490 ACE, UNIFY or GODLIKE.
Sorry @citay, I didn't notice this one until today. I have a Z490 MEG Godlike
No matter what I try, I cannot reproduce the error. Below the steps I have been following
- downgrade to BIOS 7C70v17,
- configure some settings,
- save in BIOS profile,
- reboot to OS with BIOS 7C70v17,
- back to BIOS/M-FLASH to flash BIOS 7C70v18
The operation has always been successful ... also tried with overclocking (MSI Game Boost + XMP that with my hw combo is *very* unstable) ... M-Flash seems to disable OC

MSI MEG Z490 GODLIKE (MS-7C70)
Intel® Core™ i9-10900K
G.Skill F4-4400C17-16GTZR
MSI GeForce RTX™ 3090 SUPRIM X 24G

I think it is not related to Z490 chipset itself or the BIOS chip itself, rather on SPI bus components used on some of Z490 motherboards.
Maybe privately collecting the S/N of failing boards could help MSI to narrow down the issue to a batch of such components.
 

citay

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Thanks for testing it anyway! MSI should be able to have more than enough information from the RMAs. I think the several dozen RMAs from here are just the tip of the iceberg. Many users will assume that it's because of their individual board and not even visit this forum. So MSI should have had a strangely elevated number of Z490 RMAs anyway, all with the same symptom. Some users also linked this thread when applying for their RMA, and MSI keep getting new RMAs, so they have everything they'd need to solve this eventually. I just don't know what's taking them so long.
 

diegoma

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Thanks for testing it anyway! MSI should be able to have more than enough information from the RMAs. I think the several dozen RMAs from here are just the tip of the iceberg. Many users will assume that it's because of their individual board and not even visit this forum. So MSI should have had a strangely elevated number of Z490 RMAs anyway, all with the same symptom. Some users also linked this thread when applying for their RMA, and MSI keep getting new RMAs, so they have everything they'd need to solve this eventually. I just don't know what's taking them so long.
hello @citay I am a new user with the moba z490 gaming plus, I found out about the msi problem by video and reddit, having the mobo in standard version up to which version can I update without problems, can I skip the updates until the last known stable?
 

citay

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You can always update to the version before the one with "Improved Audio compatibility". So in your case, 7C75vA6 is safe to update to. vA7 and up have the potential risk. You can flash to vA6 right away, the BIOS updates are cumulative, meaning, they always contains all the updates from the previous ones. Incremental updates (meaning, only including new fixes) would be used as a way to decrease the file size of updates for huge software suites, but they don't make sense with these small BIOS files.
 

diegoma

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Siempre puede actualizar a la versión anterior a la que tiene "Compatibilidad de audio mejorada". Entonces, en su caso, es seguro actualizar 7C75vA6. vA7 y superior tienen el riesgo potencial. Puede actualizar a vA6 de inmediato, las actualizaciones del BIOS son acumulativas, lo que significa que siempre contienen todas las actualizaciones de las anteriores. Las actualizaciones incrementales (es decir, que solo incluyen nuevas correcciones) se usarían como una forma de reducir el tamaño de archivo de las actualizaciones para grandes paquetes de software, pero no tienen sentido con estos pequeños archivos de BIOS.
[/CITA]
Thank you
 

ozer_erdemu156a02df

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Mar 10, 2021
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MSI Z490-A Pro bricked after upgrading to 7C75v2C .

Used CH341A - AsProgrammer to unbrick it.
Bios chip is located in the picture attached. (dont use the chip around the middle of the board that says winbond on it)

It is written MX 25l25673g on top of it.

Bought CH341A programmer from Amazon - $13
Use Asprogrammer - https://github.com/nofeletru/UsbAsp-flash/releases
Version 2.0.3 (2.1.0.13 did not recognize the chip)

Install drivers for Ch341A
https://www.onetransistor.eu/2017/08/ch341a-mini-programmer-schematic.html (first two)

Follow instructions from -

I have flashed E7C75IMS.2A0 which is in the bios update 7C75v2A from Msi support page.

Everything works now.
 

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mau.cast9152102da

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OK, @citay , you inspired me to at least try with the programmer.

I've tried to reprogram the BIOS chip on my z490 Gaming Carbon WiFi... I had to bend the JUSB pins away from the chip and rip off half the lower-most PCI-E slot. One hack of a job, but otherwise I could not have gotten the fat clip of the CH341a programmer in there...

I managed to flash the latest BIOS and Verified OK.

Now, the CPU debug led does not light up... but the DRAM led lights up. Progress, maybe?

I've tried testing with only 1 RAM stick in all 4 different slots - with both of my RAM sticks. My RAM sticks *SHOULD* be fine. I can't think of any reason why they would both just suddenly die. It was a bad bios update, not a gamma ray burst.

Any ideas? Before I rip out the motherboard again and try to flash a different bios version? Maybe it's helpful to add my RAM sticks are Corsair Vengeance RGB modules and the RGB lights up just fine...
 

citay

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What have you tried before the flashing with the BIOS programmer?
 
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Hi, so you can add one new user who regrets not seeing this thread before updating the BIOS...

Date of failed flashing: Jan 27, 2022
Affected board model: MPG Z490 GAMING CARBON WIFI
CPU: Intel Core i7-10700K
Flashing method used: Dragon Center
Attempted update to BIOS version: 7C73v1A
Result: Stuck at EZ Debug LED "CPU" after update.

I'll try and contact MSI or the seller to see if I can get anything out of them...
 

mau.cast9152102da

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Progress update:

I successfully flashed BIOS version 7C73v18 on my bricked z490 Gaming Carbon WiFi with the CH341a programmer, installed Windows, and I'm writing this from the more or less "fixed" computer... however the motherboard still presents a lot of very strange issues. None of the motherboard's voltage, temperature, or fan sensors work anymore. They all mark 0 Volts, 0 degrees, or 0 RPM in BIOS. Windows seems to be able to get the voltages and temperatures correctly, though not the sys fans.

I also somehow fried one of my RAM sticks. Could've happened during my first attempts at connecting the CH341a clip... while the PC was off but connected to the power supply. Yeah well, ALL CH341a guides out there suck. Most of them are made by Indian gentlemen with zero talent for explaining. NONE of them are clear. Some of them were like "yeah, board needs to be connected to power supply but off otherwise the CH341a has to supply the board power and flash will fail", some others were "everything needds to be completely disconnected from the motherboard". I didn't know what to try, so I tried both, powered and not powered. The successful flash was with just the board itself, nothing connected to it. No processor, no RAM, nothing. If only I had known. Oh well.

Whenever I power the computer on, the CPU led immediately comes on, then off. Just a blink.
This is followed by the DRAM light (I'm only using the 1 working stick, at the moment), and this light stays on for about a full minute, then turns off.
Next is the VGA light, which just comes on for about 5 seconds, then turns off.
Finally, the BOOT led blinks on then off, and the computer manages to go into BIOS.

If any options are changed in the BIOS and I need to save changes and reboot, the cycle described above repeats. It is possible to change the primary boot device in BIOS, but upon rebooting, the computer will cycle again through the lights as described above and end up in BIOS again.

In order to boot into Windows, I have to power on the computer, wait for the stupid lights to cycle and end up in BIOS, and from BIOS go straight to "Discard changes and Exit" without having changed any other option. This allows the BIOS to close and the computer to boot from the primary boot device. BUT I HAVE TO WAIT AND REPEAT THIS PROCESS EVERY SINGLE TIME.

At this point, I no longer know what to do. What should I buy? RAM sticks or another motherboard?

If I buy another motherboard, I still potentially have 1 RAM stick that doesn't work.
If I buy the RAM sticks, my thinking is if my 1 "working" RAM stick is only partially working, then this might take care of the led light boot cycle.

What would your next move be?
 
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