x570 Tomahawk WIFI: worst experience i've had with a PC component

demi9o154902d9

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Oh, that's a curious idea. Set the voltage to work at all, return to auto, set timings manually? Will check that, just need to get myself the XMP table on my phone.

But did it boost on stock? Without the XMP? In my case there is completely no difference between the 3600 XMP and stock JEDEC 2133.

Edit: set MHz, volts and timings same as XMP to check whether that would make the CPU boost. No luck at all. Still works, but still on 3800MHz. (Yes, dialed it back from before when setting auto on voltage and clocks).
Yes mine boosted at stock mem and boosted with manual mem speed and timings. Did not boost with Auto mem and XMP, did not boost with any vcore modifications (+offest, -offset, manual override)
 

matkuzm154b02e1

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Yes mine boosted at stock mem and boosted with manual mem speed and timings. Did not boost with Auto mem and XMP, did not boost with any vcore modifications (+offest, -offset, manual override)
Sorry if I missed it, but just in case, what's your RAM and BIOS version if you don't mind?
I tried to fix it by leaving as-is in BIOS and convincing Ryzen Master to enable "Default" clocks, no luck. PBO is the same crash as well. Although I noticed in PBO Ryzen Master says my power limit is 500W which is scary and crazy.
However, whatever settings I choose I get a crash and sometimes a nice WHEA in Winlogs.
A fatal hardware error has occurred.

Reported by component: Processor Core
Error Source: Machine Check Exception
Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error
Processor APIC ID: 9

The details view of this entry contains further information. - NO IT DOESN'T :)

To MSI's credit - I just checked and my RAM is NOT on the QVL for 5000 series. The 8GB sticks are, but the 16GB are not. Don't think it matters THAT MUCH since the same issues happen on 2133MHz and that should not require validation to run. Also, on XMP I can run and finish memtest. But that is something they will deny my RMA on (they asked for RAM stick photos, but haven't replied yet). I think I will check on my old 2400MHz Hyper-X just in case, but seriously if that IS memory I quit IT.

Edit: Funnily enough, the motherboard is qvled with my sticks and 5000 CPUs:
Another nice issue with qualifying hardware?
 
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demi9o154902d9

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I have been running 7C84v14. My RAM is Teamgroup T-Force Dark Pro 2x8gb (3200cl14). I use PBO with manual limits for best performance. 120ppt, 100trc, 120edc, +200mhz max clock, 10x scaler. I have a -10 all core curve set as well.
 
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nicageorg155e02df

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I've installed my system last night, 5600x on 7C84v14 , XMP works for corsair 3333mhz 16-18-18 , win 10 installed on new m2 drive, all my old 3 drives were recognized .... no problem so far

my ram is borrowed from a friend.. my ram did not arrived yet ( gskill flarex 3200 14-14-14 with samsung bdie)

i didn't try to overclock anything since i'm with the stupid noisy stock cooler until my noctua am4 kit arrives for my noctua d15 cooler

update- my new gskill 3200 14 14 14 arrived 8gbx4 - xmp works well
 
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A small update: asrock yesterday released bios update for b450 boards. So now i have my 5800x on my b450 pro4 and it worked flawlessly from the first moment. Meanwhile, i am still waiting for msi to respond to my rma ticket. Nice, the great experience with msi continues.
 

newlin9

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A small update: asrock yesterday released bios update for b450 boards. So now i have my 5800x on my b450 pro4 and it worked flawlessly from the first moment. Meanwhile, i am still waiting for msi to respond to my rma ticket. Nice, the great experience with msi continues.
====================

Can you tell us the exact model# of your ASROCK B550 MB please?

ASRock Adds Ryzen 5000 Support BIOS Updates for B450 ...

Yeah, I saw that (see atch). KUDOs to ASROCK. Gbyte has also done it for their 4XX-Series boards as well - and both of them rolled it out at least 40 days early. :biggthumbsup:

So how well is the 5800X running on your ASROCK B450 motherboard - any bugs to speak of?

The Zen2 AGESA BIOS was quite an ordeal for MSI, and lasted at least 14 months before Zen2 BIOS FINAL versions were (finally) released.

The Zen3 AGESA BIOS is at least TWICE AS BUGGY (at least for MSI) and it is looking like a rough road ahead in the next SIX MONTHS to get to a FINAL Zen3 BIOS version on MSI boards.

For the Unify, ACE, Godlike, and Tomahawk X570 boards to be seeing so many BUGS just in the first WEEK of Zen3 launch indicates a very unusual trend for MSI. All is quiet from MSI on this deluge of BUGGY BIOS releases. CRICKETS! :help:

For MSI not to have repaired the Zen3 / 5XXX CPU BIOS on (at least) their premium X570 motherboards .. :shutup: .. will MSI step up like ASROCK did?

(ASROCK B450 Fatality)
 

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My exact model is this https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B450 Pro4/index.us.asp the b450 pro4, it's a very cheap board.

The 5800x is running flawlessly on it, no problems what so ever. The cpu is boosting 4.6Ghz all core and 4.78 Ghz at most single core. I don't know if the Tomahawk would help improve these frequencies but at this point i don't even know why i should keep struggling. Even if there is a 100Mhz increase with the Tomahawk, the difference in performance would be negligible.

MSI did respond to my ticket, after 3 days, telling me that RMA is only done through the shop i bought it from. So now i am at the mercy of PC Garage and pray that they don't invent some bullshit motive to deny my return and my warranty :(
 

newlin9

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My exact model is this https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B450 Pro4/index.us.asp the b450 pro4, it's a very cheap board.

The 5800x is running flawlessly on it, no problems what so ever. The cpu is boosting 4.6Ghz all core and 4.78 Ghz at most single core. I don't know if the Tomahawk would help improve these frequencies but at this point i don't even know why i should keep struggling. Even if there is a 100Mhz increase with the Tomahawk, the difference in performance would be negligible.

MSI did respond to my ticket, after 3 days, telling me that RMA is only done through the shop i bought it from. So now i am at the mercy of PC Garage and pray that they don't invent some bullshit motive to deny my return and my warranty
========================

What good is a giant VRM that will overclock a 5950X if it won't even run stable?

You are reaching a conclusion that basically was forced on you out of necessity due to the Zen3 AGESA BIOS simply not working correctly on the TH. The X570 TH is by no means the only MB impacted, nor is the MSI MB line the only OEM struggling with Zen3 BIOS updates. It really bites that you have no remedy from MSI other than to go back to an ripoff dealer who won't stand behind the products they sell. That would be the "normal" remedy, and the vendor would in turn remedy the return back to the OEM (MSI in this case). And MSI not coming to your aid is also a very negative public message at a time when they definitely NEED good PR. (hint: 3090/3080 GPU scalping)

We can only conjecture why MSI customer support has not reached out to you - especially since this thread now having almost 3K (negative) views on just (one) MSI product (MSI X570 Tomahawk WIFI). It, being a fully featured, premiere motherboard would otherwise have a sterling reputation, if not for Zen3. Zen2 runs perfect on the X570 TH.

This thread is a perfect example of why I have not jumped onto (either) the X570 or B550 bandwagons (faulty AMD AGESA BIOS being pushed out to vendors to boost AMD sales).

And that cheap ASROCK MB (in terms of cost, but rich in terms of actual performance) you are now able to run your 5800X on - as you say "flawlessly" is another sterling example of what I am talking about. But with a twist.

And there begs the question: If ASROCK can deploy a flawless Zen3 BIOS on a $65 MB, why can't MSI deploy one also on the top-tier X570-series boards, costing 3 and 4 times as much as the "cheap" ASROCK one?

Who knows? It could just be a very simple answer of MSI honestly just strapped and overwhelmed by software tech personnel shortages to address this flood of Zen3 BUGs. It is not like like them to play "the silent game" with their customers on new hardware launches to the point of hurting their long-standing good reputation (especially in motherboards).

There can be only two answers: 1) MSI just doesn't care, or 2) there is a fatal architectural defect in the design of the MSI MBs in question that prevent Zen3 from achieving "flawless" operation.

BTW, that "cheap" MB is always in stock as well. And it has SIX SATA ports, and more USB3 ports than the X570. AND it (still) has good customer support .. :scratchchin:
 
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newlin9

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My 3200G does not with 4 sticks of 3600 RAM!
==================

Its pretty mind blowing how badly MSI is getting waxed over this.

I don't see how MSI is going to top this for their 4XX motherboards either. A 56/58/59 Zen3 on a B450 will perform better than a Zen2 on ANY 5XX motherboard (including MSI's).

I never thought I would see the day when a $90 ASROCK B450 would run circles around ANYTHING from MSI - let alone a $250 X570 Tomahawk ..

 
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Tomorrow i will be sending the board back to PC Garage. I will take detailed pictures and video of the board, just in case the board gets some surprise physical damage when it reaches them. Hopefully this will not be the case, but google reviews worry me. I don't know if having these pictures and video would help with anything, but if it does, at least i will be able to sway some people away from buying from them.
 

newlin9

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Tomorrow i will be sending the board back to PC Garage. I will take detailed pictures and video of the board, just in case the board gets some surprise physical damage when it reaches them. Hopefully this will not be the case, but google reviews worry me. I don't know if having these pictures and video would help with anything, but if it does, at least i will be able to sway some people away from buying from them.
=======================

You did a lot of work and spent a lot of effort trying to DEBUG that faulty BIOS. And THAT is what IMO your obstacle was - a BUGGY BIOS. IMO MSI really missed a great opportunity to make the X570 TH really shine on the Zen3. CRICKETS!

AMD released it BUGGY, MSI deployed it BUGGY, you got it BUGGY. The monetary incentive was obvious and both AMD and MSI launched it prematurely. Just look at the huge number of X570 TH *BUGS* related to Zen3 (specifically). - > Central Hub For Zen3 / AGESA BIOS Growing Pains - AMD Premature Launch Causing Embedded System Failures (VGA/SATA/USB)

I personally am steering clear of any 5XX / Zen3 CPU combo for at least another month. And by that time, IF/WHEN AMD/MSI get their act together on a VALID Zen3 BIOS for my MSI X470 Gaming Carbon Pro, I *may* upgrade to Zen3 then. Based on the Zen3 launch to date (on ALL 5XX platforms/vendors) I am not holding my breath.

You DID help us a great deal in your (many) efforts to DEBUG the X570 TH / 5800X though.

And you DID prove that an company that MSI dwarfs in sales volume managed to release a viable Zen3 BIOS on a $65 motherboard, and as you said "the 5800X works flawlessly" on your ASROCK B450 Pro4. Enjoy! :beerchug:

If the Zen3 / X570 / B550 MSI BIOS launch is any indicator, then MSI has a rough road ahead of them for their 4XX Zen3 BIOS launch. :dance:
 
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Last update: PC Garage acknowledged that the board had a fabrication issue and issued a refund. It seems it finished well. Too bad for the 4-5 days i wasted trying to find a workaround for the board. None was available though, as the board was bricked since it left the factory.
 

ollie_b_200159b02e9

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Last update: PC Garage acknowledged that the board had a fabrication issue and issued a refund. It seems it finished well. Too bad for the 4-5 days i wasted trying to find a workaround for the board. None was available though, as the board was bricked since it left the factory.
I feel for you, I also lost about 12+hours over 3-4 days trying to get a stable system just so I could actually work and do my job. I wish I'd seen this thread before I started my own though and might not have even bought the damn thing in the first place. The X570 Tomahawk is an absolute joke at this point.

My fix in the end was to go back to a B550 board instead. Just proves that the RAM / CPU / PSU / AGESA code / drivers / whatever else was sugested wasn't at fault here. It was the board. Also to add I tried the B550 on both the Zen2 and Zen3 BIOSes and it works just fine, the X570 TH however wasn't stable on either.
 
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