X670E Ace Bios Problems

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ill admit im not well versed in sussing out memory details. aside from HWinfo, i dont realy know how else to check whats going on under the hood, unless, as you suggest, i physically take it apart, which im not prepared to do. Looking at the sticker, im not realy sure what info in there would tell me if its Hynix or not. So right now im inclined to believe HWinfo as its reading the sticks directly...?

IMG_20230607_094112.jpg
 

Michele P

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usually the software is updated more often than a qvl list, and it reads data from the stick itself
so chances it says the truth is higher I think
but depends on what the manufacturer decides to write on the ram...
for example, looking at my ram hwinfo details can't find anything about rev A or M of the chip, but it gets the vendor right SK Hynix
 
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so then how does one get memory that has hynix chips if the info isnt listed anywhere, the manufacturer might switch it up, and the the only way to realy know is when its plugged into the system? if the QVL isnt necessarily right, it seems like its just a gamble to buy a kit and hope you end up with what its SUPPOSED to be?
 

lostking20015bf02e6

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all m-die refuse to boot under 400 tRFC
I have a $90 TeamGroup 2x16GB CL32 5600 kit (hynix die for sure). It is not on MSI QVL. Based on Gigabyte QVL, it is hynix-m die. However, it can do sub 400 tRFC at ease. I would like to test it more to see where is the limit.
 
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Michele P

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so then how does one get memory that has hynix chips if the info isnt listed anywhere, the manufacturer might switch it up, and the the only way to realy know is when its plugged into the system? if the QVL isnt necessarily right, it seems like its just a gamble to buy a kit and hope you end up with what its SUPPOSED to be?
yes, it's a gamble right now
qvl is realiable only if the specific model has not received a silent revision change
if you want to increase chance of getting what you want you should do some research and target a model with specific mhz/timings
some vendors can have hints on their stickers (like the final letter A for gskill, don't know others), so buying in real stores can help
or just play roulette online and send it back
 
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ok, thats a bit more effort than im willing to go to. this is the one i would probably go with, and someone commented its using Hynix, though i have no idea how he came to that conclusion, or if he just assumes it hynix. so if its not a guarantee, id probably just be inclined to wait, as my current memory kit is doing fine for what i need.
 

lostking20015bf02e6

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ok, thats a bit more effort than im willing to go to. this is the one i would probably go with, and someone commented its using Hynix, though i have no idea how he came to that conclusion, or if he just assumes it hynix. so if its not a guarantee, id probably just be inclined to wait, as my current memory kit is doing fine for what i need.
I own the kit in your link. It is Hynix. I guess it is accurate that it is also A-die.
For me, stability is the most important thing. The 5200 speed bin, I believe, is Micron based. It should be fine.
Just avoid any Samsung based kit. Tons of issues I have experienced.
 
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It arrived this afternoon and i put it in, booted up, and HWinfo confirms its Hynix. Thanks for the info LostKing... otherwise i probably would not have gone ahead with that. Now to see about this High Efficiency memory mode business!

EDIT: ill admit i dont realy know what im doing here, but i put High Efficiency mode to Tigther, and did a Cb23 run and scored about the same as what i used to. I rebooted and set EXPO profile 1, still with Tigther settings, did another Cb23 and i think i actually scored lower, haha. Granted, i have PBO set to 170w max, so thats kinda limiting me to 5.1ghz on the one CCD and about 5.03 on the other. I had done a bunch of voltage and PBO adjustments when I first put the system together to try and keep the temps under control, so i know i could score higher without those restrictions. I was just expecting to score a bit better with the faster ram, but maybe I need to make some further adjustments? The EXPO profile was 1.35v, 36-38-38-80. Oh, and because of the whole exploding CPU thing a few weeks ago, I still have my SoC voltage set to 1.25.. not sure if that has anything to do with it?

Stability/realiability, and temps/power consumption are my main concens with this system. I havent tried the Hardcore Overclocking "hynix settings" yet, but just wondering if anyone here whos been doing much more ram tuning than I have has some suggestions and maybe eeking out a bit more performance here? And if there are any voltage settings that i should also be keeping in check so things dont explode?
 
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lostking20015bf02e6

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It arrived this afternoon and i put it in, booted up, and HWinfo confirms its Hynix. Thanks for the info LostKing... otherwise i probably would not have gone ahead with that. Now to see about this High Efficiency memory mode business!

EDIT: ill admit i dont realy know what im doing here, but i put High Efficiency mode to Tigther, and did a Cb23 run and scored about the same as what i used to. I rebooted and set EXPO profile 1, still with Tigther settings, did another Cb23 and i think i actually scored lower, haha. Granted, i have PBO set to 170w max, so thats kinda limiting me to 5.1ghz on the one CCD and about 5.03 on the other. I had done a bunch of voltage and PBO adjustments when I first put the system together to try and keep the temps under control, so i know i could score higher without those restrictions. I was just expecting to score a bit better with the faster ram, but maybe I need to make some further adjustments? The EXPO profile was 1.35v, 36-38-38-80. Oh, and because of the whole exploding CPU thing a few weeks ago, I still have my SoC voltage set to 1.25.. not sure if that has anything to do with it?

Stability/realiability, and temps/power consumption are my main concens with this system. I havent tried the Hardcore Overclocking "hynix settings" yet, but just wondering if anyone here whos been doing much more ram tuning than I have has some suggestions and maybe eeking out a bit more performance here? And if there are any voltage settings that i should also be keeping in check so things dont explode?
Good to hear you back.

Cinebench is a good CPU benchmark, but not much for the memory. If you play games, you can use 3DMark Time Spy. The CPU score scales well with memory. Other tools that I use are y-cruncher, pyprime, aida. They all scale well with memory. Just watch out for the DRAM temperature with hwinfo when you run long stress tests.

PBO thermal limit is more useful than max TDP. As long as it runs cool, I actually don't care about how much power it uses. I limit max temperature at 85C. x3D CPU may use lower Tjmax.

Anything below 1.3 VSOC should be safe. You don't need to worry about that. Lower value may reduce some heat but you have to verify if it is still stable.

I don't use High Efficiency mode. Yes, I use "Actual Hardcore Overclocking" hynix timings. They work very well for me.
 
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^ thanks for the info! i thought i recalled seeing some cb23 benches, or maybe it was a video, (could have been hardcore overclocking?) where it seemed the memory speed realy did make a difference. that might have been why i started kicking myself months ago for initially going with 5200 vs 6000.

good point on the thermal limit. i have that set as well, sort of as a last resort i guess. i used ALL the power control features! but ya, i could give it a try with just thermal limit and see what happens.

iv never used any of the more dedicated memory stress/bench apps. there were some videos i was watching back when i built, but the apps being used were all for the earlier zen3 stuff, and i think someone finally answered me that they werent compatible with zen4. thats when i was more actively looking at getting Curve Optimizer tuned, but then i just gave it up, bypassed it all together, and went with the PBO power preset. I got better results that way vs what i was getting trying to dial in CO, which was taking forever with mostly trial and error. maybe some tools are out now for doing that, but i sort of stopped looking into it.

but ya, i should try those HC Overclocking #s and see what happens.

side note, i see you're running 2 64gb kits? is that on this same kit that i just picked up that you said earlier that you were using? I dont recall seeing that it was capable of more than 2 sticks when i was looking at the QVL. Or maybe it works for your board but not for the Ace? Just interesting if you are running 4 sticks, because that was my initial plan before building, until i started seeing that 4 sticks was a no-no, at least at the time, back in January.
 

lostking20015bf02e6

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iv never used any of the more dedicated memory stress/bench apps. there were some videos i was watching back when i built, but the apps being used were all for the earlier zen3 stuff, and i think someone finally answered me that they werent compatible with zen4. thats when i was more actively looking at getting Curve Optimizer tuned, but then i just gave it up, bypassed it all together, and went with the PBO power preset. I got better results that way vs what i was getting trying to dial in CO, which was taking forever with mostly trial and error. maybe some tools are out now for doing that, but i sort of stopped looking into it.
Yes, per-core CO takes forever to validate stability. I run -15 for the best 4 cores, and -10 for the rest. I don't bother to test the best CO values for every individual core.

side note, i see you're running 2 64gb kits? is that on this same kit that i just picked up that you said earlier that you were using? I dont recall seeing that it was capable of more than 2 sticks when i was looking at the QVL. Or maybe it works for your board but not for the Ace? Just interesting if you are running 4 sticks, because that was my initial plan before building, until i started seeing that 4 sticks was a no-no, at least at the time, back in January.
One of my kits is Kingston 2x32GB 6000 EXPO (this should be the same as yours), the other one is Kingston 2x32GB 5600 EXPO. I run 2 kits together, 128GB in total. It can only run 5600 stable.
It is not easy to run 4 sticks DDR5. It needs tons of tweaks to get 5600 working. Don't run 4 sticks, unless you really need 128GB. It can be done, but with lower speed other than 6000.
 
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so i hit a bit of a speed bump. i restarted to make some bios changes, and the bios screen only half came back. alot of the graphics were missing. i tried to manually make adjustments with the keyboard, but bios locked up. i cant remember what exactly i did but i eventually did a CMOS reset. when back in bios i loaded 1 of my presets, which had my PBO stuff, undervolt settings, etc. Again, cant realy remember the order in which things happened, but when i restarted, i got stuck on C5.

Did another CMOS reset, and went back to defaults and started loading them back in 1 at a time. While i was trying to figure out the issue i noticed someone else had basically the same bios/graphics issue i described, thought i think it was an asus board. There was another Ace user who also had the same or very similar issue back in january, though i think they said a bios updated fixed the issue. but that was bios .150

Anyway, over the course of about 3 restarts in and out of windows, i got all the settings back in. I ONLY did EXPO 1, no high efficiency mode. I wasnt sure what caused the problem in the 1st place, so i tried without the SoV voltage limit, with only default ram settings (4800mhz i think). So i think im back to where i was before, when i posted earlier, but without the high efficiency mode. Didnt try the Hardcore settings because i just wanted to get back to running. Ran a cb23 and got back to the same score... so... no worse for wear at least at this point. Still not realy sure what caused the problem in the 1st place since i was in windows just fine, and the prob only happened when i went back into bios to adjust things.

I think i need to do a sleep test and make sure it wakes from sleep fine, then maybe another restart test to see if its all good. Once it seems stable, then ill look at the Hardcore settings.

As for running 4 sticks, right now im not noticed a diff between 5200 and 6000, so... at least for me that wouldnt be an issue! Again, was hoping for SOME sort of noticable improvement.
 

lostking20015bf02e6

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so i hit a bit of a speed bump. i restarted to make some bios changes, and the bios screen only half came back. alot of the graphics were missing. i tried to manually make adjustments with the keyboard, but bios locked up. i cant remember what exactly i did but i eventually did a CMOS reset. when back in bios i loaded 1 of my presets, which had my PBO stuff, undervolt settings, etc. Again, cant realy remember the order in which things happened, but when i restarted, i got stuck on C5.
Try this.
In the DRAM menu, enable "Power Down" instead of AUTO.

There is a known bug: "Power Down" has to be enabled when memory context restore is enabled.
 
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Thanks for the continued replies regarding the ram. ^Interesting point, ill have a look. Id never enabled Power Down before, and iv always had MCR enabled, without issue, until just today putting in this 6000 kit. its currently OFF just while i narrow down what the issue was earlier. But, went to sleep, woke up fine, restarted fine, went into BIOS to just make sure there were no screen glitches, that was fine, back into windows fine. So for now thats all im gonna attempt. I dont like inviting problems before bed time because then ill lose sleep over it!
 

lostking20015bf02e6

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Thanks for the continued replies regarding the ram. ^Interesting point, ill have a look. Id never enabled Power Down before, and iv always had MCR enabled, without issue, until just today putting in this 6000 kit. its currently OFF just while i narrow down what the issue was earlier. But, went to sleep, woke up fine, restarted fine, went into BIOS to just make sure there were no screen glitches, that was fine, back into windows fine. So for now thats all im gonna attempt. I dont like inviting problems before bed time because then ill lose sleep over it!
I reported this bug in this forum some times ago.
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/msi-x670e-carbon-dram-power-down-bug-with-expo.386078/

It was ignored.
 

Alan J T

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so i hit a bit of a speed bump. i restarted to make some bios changes, and the bios screen only half came back. alot of the graphics were missing. ll look at the Hardcore settings.
Like this

Just need to Reflash the bios with same version again
1686535635509.png
 
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I applied the Hardcore Overclocking timings. I couldnt find a few of the MSI equivalent settings...

MVDD -1.35v (found VDDIO, MVDDQ)
tREFI - no idea where this is, i think he said this was the refresh time?
fRFC4 - there were 3 of these listed in his breakdown: rfc, rfc2, rfc4, i only found the first 2

not sure how critical those bits are or what MSI is calling them? EXPO is disabled, MCR is disabled, High Effic is disabled. I manually set 6000, but i didnt change the infinity fabric to 2033 as he had siad at the start of the video. Not sure if thats needed, or i can do without?

Either way, booted ok, did another cb23 run and scored the same. Oddly i hit slightly HIGHER clocks overall on this run, but my score didnt change. Though on the flip side, i noticed that a few of the cores werent boosting as high. generally ill get ccd1 up to 5.1, and ccd2 up to 5.0x pretty evenly across all cores. But this time on ccd1 I noticed a couple of the cores floating around 4.8. So, not sure if that is a function of these memory settings?
 

lostking20015bf02e6

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No, it was not but Non-standard Memory Configs will cause some strange problems.
It is pretty standard configuration for me.
It all comes down to the sequence of Enabling Memory Context Restore and Enabling Expo.
If you enable memory Context Restore before enabling EXPO, it causes the issue.

Let's see how many other users will be caught by this issue.
 
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