X870 Tomahawk Cold Boot Issues - How many of us are there?

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jonjon12315c602ec

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I've posted before about this issue in other threads and other subreddits, and from what I can gather this is specifically a problem only on MSI X870/X870e boards when paired with an X3D processor.

Basically, when the system has been shut down for some time, on start up the sound lags, the screen becomes laggy/jittery and 50% of the time the system crashes if you don't restart. From checking various threads it seems that it's an issue that was introduced in a BIOS revision where the main PCIe slot is forced to work at x1 speed. This happens at completely random times, it can be fine for days and then happen twice in a row.

I did so much troubleshooting before realizing it was a BIOS problem, I changed GPU, PSU, M.2 drives and upgraded from a 7800X3D to a 9800X3D along the way with the issue persisting. I've tried different BIOS configurations, and a fresh windows install didn't help either.

Before realizing it was a BIOS problem I contacted MSI and told them about the issue, where they offered an RMA which I didn't take, as I was worried the problem would just persist on another board. MSI are now trying to say it's either a GPU problem, or suggesting it may be due to having an M.2 occupying the M.2_1 slot which makes no sense whatsoever, nothing should share bandwidth with the main PCIe1 slot as far as I'm aware.

I'm trying to tell MSI that it's clearly a BIOS issue and they need to look into a firmware update rather than an RMA, but they seem to be skirting around accepting this or even entertaining the idea.

Here are some other threads I quickly found detailing the same or similar issue;




And my personal experience;


If you have experienced this, and can tell me what the last stable BIOS was, I can feed this back to MSI and push for a fix. I also suggest you log a ticket too, the more eyes we have in it the better the chances for a fix are.
 
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I bought the x870 Tomahawk Wifi back in July '25, via Amazon, and that's a problem I can thankfully say I've never seen, even once. I've used the bios versions 67/68/69 (the latest), as well. It's an 8-layer motherboard with 2 oz copper planes, so it's the same as found on most $500+ motherboards. However, this may (or may not) be a revision of the original x870 Tomahawk Wi-Fi, as I had to wait a couple of weeks to receive the mboard after ordering (I should have received it in two days--Prime) because Amazon was awaiting a new shipment of the boards from MSI. I would definitely say you should RMA the mboard, because under no circumstances should you experience the problems you describe with a new motherboard.

Also, I note that generally speaking, people think you can put any old GPU in the primary GPU slot, and it will run at PCIe5.0 speeds...;) Nope. The GPUs are electrically bound to the PCIe support level they are advertised to support when sold. For instance, putting a PCIe 3.0 GPU card into a PCIe5.0 slot will result in supporting PCIe3.0 speeds and no higher, etc. Before I bought my PCIe5.0 GPU I ran with a 6900XT a PCIe4.0 card, and it ran at PCIe4 speeds. My current GPU supports PCIe5.0, and runs at 5.0 speeds, as it was designed to do. This is universal, and not specific to this motherboard.
 
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same issue here
X870 Tomahawk wifi (bios A67, try A60 & A69)
7800X3D
RTX4080
Corsair 16X2 6000MT CL36

on bios A69, experienced laggy bios screen on igpu and windows startup, return normal if restart. Re sit every components same issue persist.
Roll back to A60 and A67, disable ASPM and enable spread spectrum helps a bit. Manually set the pcie lane to 4.0 in bios and adjust the high power plan in windows, however, GPU-Z shows me my pcie lane is locked at 3.0 (PCIe x16 3.0 @ x16 3.0).

Since I bought the board from Amazon within a month, is it a good idea I return the board and change to other brand? Is there a permanent fixed for this issue from MSI?
 
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My PC boots twice after not being powered on for a longer (few days). It is not even loading the OS. It just POST's twice.
Also, did you notice no BIOS updates on the website? Other manufacturers already released some new versions with new AGESA, but no update for MSI X870 Tomahawk.
 
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My x870 tomahawk runs fine on bios 7E51v1A67
Takes 20 seconds to the MSI splash screen, then another 25 seconds to desktop.
So I'm on agesa f version, seems to me some of those agesa versions cause problems because I had with several previous versions. The reason for no new update yet is because of issues with a new agesa version. I suspect this goes for the entire MSI x870 line.
 
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reijkelho15d702ea said:
Exact same issue here.

Pre-build Powered by MSI computer.

MSI X870 GAMING PLUS WIFI (latest 7E51v1A69 bios)
NVIDIA MSI GeForce RTX 5080 16G SHADOW 3X OC
AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D - 8 Cores
32GB DDR5-5600 Kingston Fury Beast RGB (KF556C36-16)

I can confirm the issue likely lies with the GPU unable to negotiate the full PCIe 5.0, but instead getting stuck with a much lower PCIe Gen.

- On a good boot the GPU can run at PCIe 5.0, and all seems well, stable, and fast..
- If the GPU boots to a maximum of PCIe 3.0 or 4.0 instead, you won't really notice issues (on the desktop) but obviously it's not good and comes with a heavy performance penalty in case of PCIe 3.0.
- If the GPU boots to an even lower Gen (to PCIe 1.1 or 2.0) you'll be greeted by a Windows stuttery hell, mouse skips, screen freezes and reboots with black screen instead of a BSOD as a result.
- 'Event Viewer' and Minidump analyze tools like 'WhoCrashed' and 'BlueSCreenView' will point to the GPU drivers like nvlddmkm.sys, dxgkrnl.sys and watchdog.sys with descriptions like; " VIDEO_TDR_ERROR", "VIDEO_ENGINE_TIMEOUT_DETECTED" and "VIDEO_SCHEDULER_INTERNAL_ERROR", likely because the latency went through the roof.

You might also see some graphic artifacting as VRAM buffers overflow.

You can check which PCIe Gen version your GPU is stuck running at from boot with the program TechPowerUP GPU-Z.
* Note that in order to get a good measurement you need to use the "PCIe-Express Render Test" (click on the question mark -> Start Render Test) to be sure your GPU switches to the maximum PCIe Gen is was negotiated at boot as throttling PCIe to a lower Gen (even down to 1.1) is usually normal and healthy when the GPU is not under any load,

Look to the right of 'Bus Interface' where it will note something like "PCIe x16 5.0 @ x16 3.0"* or "PCIe x16 5.0 @ x16 4.0" which means that, though the GPU is capable of PCIe 5.0, the GPU is stuck @ a maximum of PCIe 3.0.

BTW: Putting the computer to sleep and waking it again up might boost the GPU from PCIe 3.0 to 4.0 or back to PCIe 5.0, but it might also wake up with a black screen and reboot instead (I assume because it then woke up to PCIe 1.1 or perhaps 2.0)
Click to expand...
The best explanation of the problem I have read anywhere on the internet.
 
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I've now been able to 100% confirm (Using TechPowerUp GPU-Z) that on those laggy stutterboots the GPU maxes out @ PCIe2.0 (Gen 2).
See image taken from my phone of one such laggy bootups where I'd disabled most programs from starting at bootup because I wanted to make sure my computer only had to load GPU-Z before it would crash.
And indeed it crashed not a minute after.

GPU stuck on PCIe20 - Copy.jpg


I seem to be able to prevent most of these really stuttery crashy bootups by turning Off 'PSPP Policy' (PCIe speed power policy), and turning On 'FCH Spread Spectrum', in the Bios. And 'PCI Express/Link state power management' in windows power plan to Off.
However, even then the GPU still maxes out at PCIe 3.0 on some rare bootups and wake from sleeps.
 
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tomfuegu152e02d3 said:
@afamenophi15bb02da

And how can you be sure that an identical new board will not have the same problem?.
Click to expand...
Because I haven't had it yet, and I didn't even have to enable FCH spread spectrum. If you have to enable spread spectrum, I suggest replacing the board as this is the only thing that helps and will spare you many problems.
I also noticed on the old motherboard, on every windows installation I got two hardware errors in reliability monitor: "1a8" and 1b8". I didn't get them on this motherboard, so I assume they were related to the board, since this is the only thing I changed.

Since so many people got this fault, the errors are either different ones or many boards of this series are faulty. I can only suggest replacing your board until you get a functioning one, since not all of them are faulty.
However, I wouldn't recommend this board in the first place if you build a new pc...
 
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reijkelho15d702ea said:
I've now been able to 100% confirm (Using TechPowerUp GPU-Z) that on those laggy stutterboots the GPU maxes out @ PCIe2.0 (Gen 2).
See image taken from my phone of one such laggy bootups where I'd disabled most programs from starting at bootup because I wanted to make sure my computer only had to load GPU-Z before it would crash.
And indeed it crashed not a minute after.

View attachment 208259

I seem to be able to prevent most of these really stuttery crashy bootups by turning Off 'PSPP Policy' (PCIe speed power policy), and turning On 'FCH Spread Spectrum', in the Bios. And 'PCI Express/Link state power management' in windows power plan to Off.
However, even then the GPU still maxes out at PCIe 3.0 on some rare bootups and wake from sleeps.
Click to expand...
This confirms only that your GPU is running at PCIe 5.0 max and currently at PCIe 2.0. The render test is sometimes not sufficient to make the GPU run at full speed, you should start a game or some other demanding app. However, if you really have this PCIe problem and FCH spread spectrum fixes it, I would suggest to get a new motherboard, as nothing else will fix it.
 
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have this issue with my X670e Tomahawk, I use a 7800X3D CPU, and sometimes (probably more than I like). The PC will be extremely sluggish and slow, the mouse pointer jumping and the over all performance is slow as hell, sometimes with image corruption. Will only go away with a soft restart once or twice.

P.S. This issue only appeared with AGESA 1.2.0.3 BIOSes
 
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Exact Same issue with my x870 Tomahawk (9800x3D and 5080)
Bios is 7E51v1A69 every drivers are up to date
I would get lag, stutters, audio crackling and eventually full system freeze, last time it happened I was able to start gpu-z and "stress test" PCIe and noticed that I was locked at PCIe 2.0 maximum and eventually my pc crashed without BSOD, completely frozen, I had to hard shutdown my pc, then I rebooted the PC and everything was fine and running extremely well.
I would say it happens 1 boot out of 10 on average.

Would love for MSI to aknowledge the issue and push a fix on their next BIOS update, apprently they were able to replicate the problem recently according to a redditor who sent his X870 Tomahawk to MSI so fingers crossed.
 
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afamenophi15bb02da said:
This confirms only that your GPU is running at PCIe 5.0 max and currently at PCIe 2.0. The render test is sometimes not sufficient to make the GPU run at full speed, you should start a game or some other demanding app. However, if you really have this PCIe problem and FCH spread spectrum fixes it, I would suggest to get a new motherboard, as nothing else will fix it.
Click to expand...

The only way I could even get a picture of this happening (and only on my phone at that) of it being stuck in PCIe 2.0 was to disable loading all other programs at startup.
Trying to start a game under these circumstances, with the whole system visibly about to give. or even trying to clip a screenshot, would lock the system immediately due to bandwidth starvation.

I did return the system for repair.
 
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Xev197 said:
Exact Same issue with my x870 Tomahawk (9800x3D and 5080)
Bios is 7E51v1A69 every drivers are up to date
I would get lag, stutters, audio crackling and eventually full system freeze, last time it happened I was able to start gpu-z and "stress test" PCIe and noticed that I was locked at PCIe 2.0 maximum and eventually my pc crashed without BSOD, completely frozen, I had to hard shutdown my pc, then I rebooted the PC and everything was fine and running extremely well.
I would say it happens 1 boot out of 10 on average.

Would love for MSI to aknowledge the issue and push a fix on their next BIOS update, apprently they were able to replicate the problem recently according to a redditor who sent his X870 Tomahawk to MSI so fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
There's a new bios released. Did you test it?
www.msi.com

MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI | Gaming Motherboards｜Best Motherboard for AI PC｜MSI

The MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI AMD AM5 gaming motherboard delivers cutting-edge connectivity, including Wi-Fi 7, 5G LAN, high-speed USB, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, and M.2 Gen5. Designed for AI-PCs and EZ DIY, it’s the top X870 ATX motherboard for AMD Ryzen 9000 CPU.
www.msi.com www.msi.com

"Would love for MSI to aknowledge the issue and push a fix on their next BIOS update, apprently they were able to replicate the problem recently according to a redditor who sent his X870 Tomahawk to MSI so fingers crossed."
Click to expand...

Could you share a link to that Reddit post please?
 
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reijkelho15d702ea said:
There's a new bios released. Did you test it?
www.msi.com

MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI | Gaming Motherboards｜Best Motherboard for AI PC｜MSI

The MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI AMD AM5 gaming motherboard delivers cutting-edge connectivity, including Wi-Fi 7, 5G LAN, high-speed USB, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, and M.2 Gen5. Designed for AI-PCs and EZ DIY, it’s the top X870 ATX motherboard for AMD Ryzen 9000 CPU.
www.msi.com www.msi.com



Could you share a link to that Reddit post please?
Click to expand...
The new BIOS update doesnt address this issue

Here's the reddit post, read the comments as the redditor who sent his motherboard posted updates
https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/1ny2su3/_/nst68tk


I also sent a ticket to the support about it and they said
"Regarding your concern, we are still testing and checking this issue, please wait for our reply ! Thank you !"

So it seems that MSI is currently investigating this issue
 
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Hi all, quick feedback from my X870 Tomahawk WiFi build.

I had random mouse lag/freezes and reboots in Windows 11 (Kernel-Power 41) with BSODs like VIDEO_TDR_ERROR pointing to nvlddmkm.sys / watchdog.sys. In GPU-Z, even during the Render Test, my GPU link was also stuck at PCIe x16 @ Gen 1.1 or 2.0, and crashes were almost guaranteed.

I'm on the latest BIOS A70 with an MSI RTX 5080 Inspire 3X. Forcing PCIe Gen4 (or Gen5) in BIOS did not help.
What fixed it (so far): Enabled "FCH Spread Spectrum" in BIOS. After that, under load GPU-Z shows PCIe x16 5.0 @ x16 5.0 and the system has been stable through reboots/cold boots.

Hope this helps others until MSI releases an official fix.
 
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Xev197 said:
The new BIOS update doesnt address this issue

Here's the reddit post, read the comments as the redditor who sent his motherboard posted updates
https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/1ny2su3/_/nst68tk


I also sent a ticket to the support about it and they said
"Regarding your concern, we are still testing and checking this issue, please wait for our reply ! Thank you !"

So it seems that MSI is currently investigating this issue
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply.
 
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remi.bernard815a802e5 said:
Hi all, quick feedback from my X870 Tomahawk WiFi build.

I had random mouse lag/freezes and reboots in Windows 11 (Kernel-Power 41) with BSODs like VIDEO_TDR_ERROR pointing to nvlddmkm.sys / watchdog.sys. In GPU-Z, even during the Render Test, my GPU link was also stuck at PCIe x16 @ Gen 1.1 or 2.0, and crashes were almost guaranteed.

I'm on the latest BIOS A70 with an MSI RTX 5080 Inspire 3X. Forcing PCIe Gen4 (or Gen5) in BIOS did not help.
What fixed it (so far): Enabled "FCH Spread Spectrum" in BIOS. After that, under load GPU-Z shows PCIe x16 5.0 @ x16 5.0 and the system has been stable through reboots/cold boots.

Hope this helps others until MSI releases an official fix.
Click to expand...
It is a patch, but not perfect. If you notice issues in heavy games you will find it's running at @ 3.0, instead of 5.0.
But at least the boots where it runs at 1.1 or 2.0 are almost non existent (though still not 100% gone).
 
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The only fix to prevent this issue happen to me atm is to turn "off"(for a while) and back "on" the power switch my pc and monitors connected to. I believe restart just power supply might work as well.
 
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