Z490 Gaming Edge Wifi - BIOS

MJ-KERR

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Jun 10, 2022
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I built this new computer about four weeks ago now

Z490 Gaming Edge Wifi
Intel i5 10600KF
MSI GTX 1060 Armor 6G OCV1
32GB RAM - 2 x Corsair Vengenance LPX 16GB 3200
NVME 256GB - Windows 10 Pro (Legacy BIOS)
NVME - 512GB (programs)
SATA - 2TB (files)

Windows was cloned from my previous computer
As it is a retail key I have done this several times without any issues
Once cloned a clean install is then performed
All the updates are then performed

I did not really pay much attention to the BIOS at the beginning, trying to avoid changing any settings until later
I used the BIOS to set the XMP to take advantage of the RAM overclock, now set to 3200 MHz
I then had to set the BIOS to CSM in order to use MultiMonitor on the GTX 1060 GPU
I then tested a few more XMP settings, but found little benefit

I then installed the MSI Center
The idea was to allow me to test some fan curves and then CPU overclocking
I noticed the default (BIOS) fan speeds were rather aggressive, so this was the first thing I wanted to calibrate
I could then take these settings and copy them to the BIOS

However as soon as I launch the MSI Center, the following happens :
In the Task Manager the MSI Center is using about 95% of CPU (and this appears to be the issue)
The Clocks go from 800MHz / 4100MHz / 4701MHz to (all six) 4800MHz
The CPU Temperature goes from 35'C / 40'C to 80'C / 90'C
The CPU fan starts at 520rpm, then is joined by the other three fans and they all go to maximum
The GPU does not change

When I quit (close or end task) MSI Center the system returns back
I do not know what MSI Center is doing, but that does not appear to be correct!
As a result I have not used it since (except to create this topic)
However ever since this first use of the MSI Center I cannot access the BIOS

I have searched to make sure there is not something else loading related to the MSI Center
MSI Center appears in the StartUp tab, but is set to disabled

I submitted a Support Ticket to Intel, but they advised to contact MSI
As my previous topic, I have submitted a Support Ticket, but I just want to make sure I have not overlooked something whilst I wait for reply

What have I overlooked?
 

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Hi
By the sounds of it, you'd be better off performing fresh clean installation of Windows. If your previous PC wasn't the same platform then the drivers might be messed up. Especially if you cloned it multiple times now.
BIOS looks like you are using a TV as that's typical behaviour. But Lenovo doesn't do TVs... Are you using any adapters?
What CPU cooler are you using? PSU?
Is your RAM a matched kit, or two separately bought sticks?
 
For your GeForce 1060, you need to apply this firmware update to use it with the BIOS in UEFI mode: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/nv-uefi-update-x64/

Then, after having done a CMOS Clear (see manual, bridge two pins using a screwdriver), hopefully getting the BIOS to work again and having updated it to BIOS 7C79v16 (the newer ones can sometimes cause this problem), i would do a fresh install of Win10 or 11 as Nichrome said. As for the fans, read my thread Guide: How to set up a fan curve in the BIOS.

Do not use MSI Center, it can mess with your system. Things like the fan curves are better set directly in the BIOS.
 
By the sounds of it, you'd be better off performing fresh clean installation of Windows. If your previous PC wasn't the same platform then the drivers might be messed up. Especially if you cloned it multiple times now
The Windows OS was only cloned once
Simply to move it from Hard Drive to NVME


BIOS looks like you are using a TV as that's typical behaviour. But Lenovo doesn't do TVs... Are you using any adapters?
Four Lenovo C22-25 monitors
Two are connected on HDMI and two are connected by DP to HDMI adaptors
When I select the BIOS the DP outputs are used
Ironically, one of the two adaptors failed and both have now been replaced
This also solved the aspect issue when trying to view the BIOS


What CPU cooler are you using? PSU?
Is your RAM a matched kit, or two separately bought sticks?
Cooler - be Quiet Dark Rock Slim
PSU - Aero Cool Integrator 850W
RAM - Corsair LPX 3200MHz (XMP active) - Two sticks from same pack
 
However as soon as I launch the MSI Center, the following happens :
In the Task Manager the MSI Center is using about 95% of CPU (and this appears to be the issue)
The Clocks go from 800MHz / 4100MHz / 4701MHz to (all six) 4800MHz
The CPU Temperature goes from 35'C / 40'C to 80'C / 90'C
The CPU fan starts at 520rpm, then is joined by the other three fans and they all go to maximum
The GPU does not change

When I quit (close or end task) MSI Center the system returns back
I do not know what MSI Center is doing, but that does not appear to be correct!
As a result I have not used it since (except to create this topic)
I stopped using the MSI Center, until today
Having tested this first, no such issue with very high CPU Utilisation (typically no higher than 0.5%)

I have the i5-10600KF overclocked to 4.80GHz, and there is almost no change in temperature or fans
I can also get 4.90GHz and 5.00GHz, but the higher temperature and fan noise is noticeable
I suspect I cannot get 5.10GHz as I have not tested any voltage changes
Now that I can view the BIOS I have tested some fan curves

However, I noticed when loading Cities Skylines the CPU speed becomes limited to 4.60GHz
There is massive spike to 100% CPU Utilisation when the program loads
I tested both Passive and Active modes, to make it easier to see the issue
Equally, when I close Cities Skylines the CPU speed becomes further limited to 4.47GHz

I then loaded MSI Center
Sure enough the CPU speed starts at 4.80GHz, then lowers
However using MSI Center I can reset and remove this limit, returning back to 4.80GHz

I have tested with other programs and games, no such issue
Paradox (Cities Skylines) have attempted to help, but they cannot work out why this is happening
Checked Windows power settings, BIOS and so on
 
PSU - Aero Cool Integrator 850W

The Aerocool Integrator is classed as "Tier F • Replace immediately" on the PSU tier list. I would quickly get rid of that cheap PSU (or try to return it if it's new), and get a proper quality PSU, or at least a PSU from Tier A-C, and avoid the lower tiers. I wrote a Guide: How to find a good PSU.

Aerocool tend to use a cheap so-called group-regulated design, meaning the 12V and 5V rails are coupled, which is not good at all nowadays, because almost all load is drawn from the 12V rail today. They use the cheapest of the cheap models for the primary and secondary electrolytic capacitors, with heavily undersized capacity for the job. So the holdup time on those PSUs will be extremely short, and voltage ripple filtering on the secondary side will also be bad.

Worst of all, Aerocool are known for review samples manipulation and post-review design downgrades. This means that they send out a nice PSU (a "golden sample") for the purpose of being reviewed, but the PSU that they eventually sell to the public will use cheaper and worse components, or even leave out components, and is not of the quality that was shown in the review. And they might submit a golden sample PSU for 80PLUS testing (efficiency certificate), they achieve the certificate, but then they sell a worse PSU with the exact same model name to the public, and keep the sticker with the 80PLUS certificate on it (which isn't valid for that new model anymore). The PSU they sell to the public ends up being borderline dangerous for your hardware in the end, and can easily fail.

PSU authority JonnyGuru (now head of PSU R&D at Corsair) had this to say about the AeroCool Integrator:

Screenshot 2022-05-04 at 17-14-48 AeroCool Integrator 600 Watt PSU Review - KitGuru.png


Therefore, i advise you to replace that with a proper PSU from a reputable brand, a model that isn't a danger for your other hardware.
 
Like i write in the PSU guide, when a manufacturer does this, they are not to be trusted whatsoever, because they have no integrity as a company whatsoever.
So then the model doesn't matter, and the reviews especially don't matter, since the manufacturer is known for review samples manipulation and post-review design downgrades.
So whatever you see in a review is not identical to the "cost-optimized" version you are getting later as the buyer.

What relevance does this have to CPU issue?

None. But when you take a car to a car garage for one specific issue, don't you want them to point out another issue if it could cause big trouble later?

About CPU frequencies, the task manager is completely useless for that. You can see the proper sensor data in HWinfo64.
 
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Something to be learned here, is take everything with a grain of salt.
Lots of "ok" advice being given out, along with some incorrect and flat out wrong advice at times. Some just don't learn no matter how many times they're reminded.

1. You don't, or didn't need the VBIOS update. Even though someone says it's for UEFI, it's not. It's strictly for Displayport 1.3 and 1.4 features to work with UEFI. If you were using HDMI, it wouldn't do anything and wouldn't fix anything.
2. MSI center is generally either good, or crap. It depends on the system. On my laptop, it's great. On my desktop (Z390 Godlike), I avoid it like the plague. On my sons desktop (Z490 Godlike), it works well. If it doesn't work well for you system, then I'd generally avoid using it unless you need to.
3. In regards to your games, if it's only happening on 1 game (as you seem to indicate), generally it has something to do with that game specifically. Could be a software interaction for all we know, as some have even had issues with Logitech software and hardware interfering with things. It gets very complex very quickly.
4. I'd honestly suggest limiting yourself and work on 1 issue at a time, solve that, and move onto the next. Keep things as simplistic as possible. Remove all un-needed hardware, etc, until it's figured out, then add some back in and try again. Continue until you're where you want to be.

As far as the PSU, as I've started saying, it's on you. If you don't want to upgrade, that's a risk you can take. Sometimes it doesn't matter, especially if you're not having some monster system to play games. In many cases, it's fine. But in others, I'd still recommend upgrading to something better and more reliable from a more quality centric company, just to be safe and save yourself some headaches down the line. Generally, if a PSU manufacturer is doing the types of things that Aerocool is doing, it's a sign to stay away from their products. Reminds me of an article I read that likened the recent Crucial and WD and other SSD manufacturers that are down-costing their SSD's without telling people about the lower performance.....which also talked about WAAAY back in the day when IBM made the Deskstar series drives and they started dying at a high rate and IBM denied it......They started calling those drives Deathstars for a reason......

Anyway....feel free to take this advice, or ignore it. Up to you. But a little bit of research into things always helps when diagnosing problems.
 
Found the issue
Intel Extreme Tuning had set the
Turbo Boost Short Power Max to Disabled

System now fully back to
All Core
48x
4.80GHz

It will also perform the 5.00GHz again
I was able to get 4.90GHz, but after about 10 seconds it did not like the 5.00GHz
I know it does not like the 5.10GHz, as I only have a 75W cooler TDP setup
 
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