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Author Topic: Powersupply calculation....  (Read 74425 times)

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Powersupply calculation....
« on: 25-July-02, 02:04:28 »

Hi there,

To give a better guide on powersupplies.....

Modern AMD CPU's (XP) need about 180W on the combined 3.3+5V power lines....
Check the label on this.....
If it doesn't list the combined wattage, you can try this (refined) calculation:

((5VxAMP's+3.3VxAMP's)/3)x2=approx the wattage for most powersupplies.....

Eg.  

You have a PSU that does:

5V 20A
3.3V 15A

It will do about:

5x20=100
3.3x15=49.5
100+49.5=149.5
149.5/3=49.9
49.9x2=99.8Watt's combined

Be aware, this is only an example.....
It can give only an estimate on most PSU's....Cheap ones, there are far better......and this is the calculation for the worst type's :P

You better check the label for the exact combined power...

The best rule to stick by is 180W combined for a XP-1700 under normal conditions.....
200W or above for the same system with a GF4Tixxxx or simular card....
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Scirocco

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« Reply #1 on: 26-July-02, 04:54:19 »

thanks for the general formula Bas.
Have your morning coffee or beer in the afternoon?
 :D  :]
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r@id

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« Reply #2 on: 26-July-02, 21:22:01 »

I have no broblem running my computer with a "small but damn enough" power supply...

I also have 3 case fan running @ 7v and 3 other small fans (chipset+video+cpu)

2 cd roms and 2 HD...

I'm running a computer not a powerplant...! :)

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« Reply #3 on: 26-July-02, 23:18:54 »

Hi,

Harddisk's, Cdroms, CDwriters and fan's are not the stuff that take much power.....
They take most from the 12V line....and that one has plenty power on most PSU's.....

The really powerhungry stuff on 3.3+5V are:

CPU (XP-1800 about 80W at full load!)
Motherboard (depends on the board and features)
Ram (estimated at 10W per 256MB no matter the load)
Videocard (GF4Ti a lot, but close to the CPU! when full load)

So you see, 180W combined isn't really that much....
And you know why underpowered systems crash when playing games......
As at idle, they don't take that much......

12V even when you have only 10A is allready 120W....
Get the picture there???? :]

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lnpuco

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« Reply #4 on: 27-July-02, 13:33:00 »

I am running an AOpen 300wps, Large Mid-Tower, with an MSI KT333 ARU, 1800+, 768 DDR Micron, MSI G4 MX440, Dual Maxtor ATA-133 7200 rpm drives, Acer 56x CDR, LiteOn 16X48 DVD, LiteOn 40x12x48 CDRW, 1.44FDD, Iomega 100 ide zip, AOpen 56k Modem, AOpen 10/100 NIC, etc, etc, and WinXP Pro as far as the op. and no power supply problems, and that includes 5 8x8 case fans....just some notes for the crowd...later  
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Mankou

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« Reply #5 on: 27-July-02, 17:49:07 »

I ordered a 1800XP and a GeForce4 Ti4200 for my K7T Turbo. There are also 2 IDE drives, 2 HDs, 2 PCI cards, an extra case fan. My PSU is an old generic 230W. GOD HELP ME! 8o
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« Reply #6 on: 28-July-02, 00:50:00 »

Hi Mankou,

You better get a bigger PSU.......it won't handle it at all :]
If it will even start (doubt it very much), you will run into trouble when you put some serious load on it....
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WaltC

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Here's a good link...
« Reply #7 on: 28-July-02, 18:57:58 »

...to a chart which will help you to figure your power supply needs:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/maxpc/index_cases.htm

While you're there, be sure and read the other very interesting power supply articles on the site.  This is the best PSU info I've seen.

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« Reply #8 on: 29-July-02, 02:05:50 »

Hi,

I have seen that link before, although not accurate anymore it a good guide on the wattages.....
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« Reply #9 on: 03-August-02, 19:16:54 »

I've been having trouble running a Mushkin 512M PC2700 module. My computer runs fine with the 256M PC2700. It has been suggested I replace the Antec 300W PS with a larger one. Mushkin support thought 300W should be enough but I have ordered a 500W PS replacement just to be sure I have enough power. What do you think?
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« Reply #10 on: 03-August-02, 19:29:52 »

I am in the process of putting together a computer for the first time and the motherboard that I like is the KT3Ultra.  My question is, in looking for a case, I don't know if the connectors from the power supply are universal between AMD motherboards and Intel motherboards.  Can anyone tell me what to look for?  The case I was looking at is the Antec SX630.  Thanks in advance for your help :]
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Snead

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« Reply #11 on: 03-August-02, 19:38:09 »

emh125...
no problem, I am running the KT3 in an Antec 830.
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tweetyoost

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« Reply #12 on: 05-August-02, 10:27:58 »

a chieftec 340W so that be enough
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tweetyoost

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« Reply #13 on: 05-August-02, 12:59:08 »

or what you think of that macron 400w psu
http://www.computer3g.com/macatxinamdr.html
i gonna buy such psu
ps: where is ralcan works his pc now or not
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tweetyoost

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« Reply #14 on: 05-August-02, 13:28:30 »

I just bought a 400w psu of Q-tec
http://www.qtec.info/products/product.htm?artnr=13023
what you think of it that must work i hope :P
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #15 on: 05-August-02, 13:29:07 »

tweety if you use the formula

and if ive done my sums right that psu still only gives 166 watts cmbined

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« Reply #16 on: 05-August-02, 13:52:55 »

darn,i only got 164watts out of my so called 400watts p4 power supply,and i'm running XP@1630 wif vcore 1.7v ,sdram based mobo wif gf2,dvd,7200rpm drives and audigy..is that enuf?????
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #17 on: 05-August-02, 14:16:30 »

the calculation is only a guide

the sums do not work on an antec true power as it has totally independant 5v and 3.3 v rails but its the only one i have found to date to be like that

the best thing to look at is the quoted combined figure

if they dont quote it appears to me they are normally of inferior quality and a good guide in the main to avoiding them in the first place

if your pc works with what you have fine

but if you get odd lock ups and other strange behavior
then you have an idea as to what may be causing it
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« Reply #18 on: 05-August-02, 14:27:14 »

hehe...mmm..guess i don hav any probs now...my sys is stable :) even my 5v reads 4.83v somtimes
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tweetyoost

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« Reply #19 on: 06-August-02, 19:50:30 »

tomorrow i have  something better a 550w psu  :P
that should to i think :D
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WarLord

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« Reply #20 on: 10-October-02, 23:32:10 »

I have a TTGI 320w 3.3c 5.0v combined is 180w running a XP1800 768mb of PC2100 G4ti4400 D740x 60g Maxtor 16x10x40 cdr SBive Run the :censored: out of it and no problems. i suppose when i upgrade i'll need a new one 8o thanx for the info Bas :]  
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quality does matter
« Reply #21 on: 12-October-02, 22:07:56 »

This is funny, 1 month ago I bought a Netserver from IBM. The big one (10 000$).

2cpu (pIII 1.2 gig, 2gig ecc ram,, 2 nic, scsi controler and 5 hd, video and all other stuff , big Loud fans,

and a redundant FAT [size=15]200w [/SIZE]    power supply!!!!!

anyway, quality  is a bigger factor than raw power....

I'm buying soon the xpc ss51g with a small 200w power supply and

running ok with 2 hd, ati9700, audigy, p4 2.4 , i gig mem,

thanks! :]

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« Reply #22 on: 07-November-02, 20:09:30 »

I have a p4 1.53 ghz . on power supplys you talk about amd how abou p4 is a 340 watt enlight ok for a p4
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #23 on: 07-November-02, 20:28:21 »

calculations the same,p4 draws a bit less juice but i would still look to get 180 watts combined or 200 for a gf4 system myself
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« Reply #24 on: 07-November-02, 20:34:27 »

ok thank you very much
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thinker

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« Reply #25 on: 18-November-02, 10:19:10 »

I'm running a enermax 330watt psu. Everything seems to run fine for me. I have a 400watt in the closet that I'll probably use when I upgrade  :)
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #26 on: 01-December-02, 15:15:52 »

from pc answers xmas 2002 issue       typical pc with gf4

p4,athlon                  65-75watts                        75

motherboard            20-30watts                         30

graphics card          15-100watts                       100

7200drive                     30 watts        x2             60

ram per 128mb             10watts        x4              40

cdrom                            25watts                         25

dvdrom/writter              30watts                         30

sound card                5-10watts                          10

floppy/pcicard                 5watts                          10

zip drive                        10watts                          -

networkcard                   5watts                           5


                                                        TOTAL       385watts

so add a bit for upgrades and get that 430 antec
   
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« Reply #27 on: 02-December-02, 02:27:52 »

I did your calculations, but I did not come up with the same as my power supply says. I have a Raidmax 350w powersupply that I had replaced with a Antec PSU. Using the chart on the side of the Raidmax PSU, they come up with 178w combined. With your calculation I only came u with 118?

3.3v=16A 52.8
+5=25A 125
125+52.8=177.8
177.8/3=59.2666
59.2666*2=118.5333
So what have I done wrong in this calculation?
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #28 on: 02-December-02, 03:21:35 »

if the raid max is worked the same way as the antec true power it would be correct,i do not know if it is
up to now the true power has been unique in having 3 seperate power rails and not getting 3.3 current from 5 v rail as most power supplies do

here is a review of a much later 400 watt only claims 180 watt combined so i think some things wrong there
as its amps are double for 3.3 and greater for 5 v

http://www.pcabusers.com/reviews/raidmax400w/p2.html

you have to divide calculated by 3 and times by 2 to get an approximate combined
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« Reply #29 on: 02-December-02, 09:02:50 »

I have looked at a lot of PSU's and used the calculation
and there not too many PSU's that qualify for 200w
combined manufactors say they do but calculation's
say they don't. ?????????? ?(
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+12V 20A = 220W, Win XPro SP 2, DSL....

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« Reply #30 on: 02-December-02, 09:15:05 »

if they say they do then you have to accept it,its a basic formula to find something that need to be measured to get properley
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« Reply #31 on: 04-February-03, 21:45:39 »

                             Tigerpro TP-420 420W
http://mixpc.zoovy.com/product/PS_TP4420

I ordered this one for $35 and free shipping.

It has +3.3=28A
           +5 =40A

So with wonkanoby's formula =194.93W

Is this a good deal or what  :]
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #32 on: 04-February-03, 22:16:33 »

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« Reply #33 on: 24-February-03, 15:32:22 »

I wonder doest -12, -5V imoportant how many Amps it is.
I saw some PSU with like .3A
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« Reply #34 on: 24-February-03, 15:38:11 »

Quote
Originally posted by diabllo
                             Tigerpro TP-420 420W
http://mixpc.zoovy.com/product/PS_TP4420

I ordered this one for $35 and free shipping.

It has +3.3=28A
           +5 =40A

So with wonkanoby's formula =194.93W

Is this a good deal or what  :]


Interesting that by label this PSU said 245W output on +5 and 3.3..

MY PSU (450W) said 260W output but
my 3.3 and 5 have lover Amps out..
by wonkanoby's formula 175

Therefore may be all PSU that build in are different.. some of them might share Amps one way or another..
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« Reply #35 on: 24-February-03, 15:51:45 »

Hi,

It's my formula :D
And it's only meant for PSU (cheap ones) that don't mention any of this stuff on the label.....
It's not a rule!!!!
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #36 on: 24-February-03, 15:54:42 »

if you read the other psu thread i initially held with another formula all the 5v watts plus 1/2 the 3.3v watts

in this case that formula works better for your psu

as it says all the way through this if it says more you have to trust them

if it says bugger all formula here,which is bas,s not mine gives worse case normally and no benefit of the dout
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« Reply #37 on: 24-February-03, 16:55:38 »

I understand it's jut like show you the point of view how to choose PSU.
However I am curious person and try look at diferent angel.
Most people stear at one point like here it's the Amps how ever if some people start running just for amps not stable Voltage (noise) and possible shared voltage/Amps (like +5 volts come from 12V "limited resiter from 12 volt that will decrease it to 5")
I hope I am not rude nor pain in the butt :) If I am then I am sorry.
PS I guess good PSU is one that hopefully contain (enoguth amps (Watts), Low noise, Impitance (Resistance between like +5V and Ground)
I noticed all topics on PSU here is related to Watts and Ampers and leave other important stuff somewhere behind.

PSS I just wanna know as much as possible (about PC PSU)
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #38 on: 24-February-03, 17:03:35 »

like most things you get what you pay for

buy a 550 antec or its enermax equivilent and never worry again
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« Reply #39 on: 24-February-03, 17:15:11 »

Quote
Originally posted by Bas
Hi,

It's my formula :D
And it's only meant for PSU (cheap ones) that don't mention any of this stuff on the label.....
It's not a rule!!!!


Sowwy that i said it's uhmm others guy forumla.
I just beleve all companies would lie and trick you by saing that their PSU cheap and best (I don't belive that good quality items could be sold cheap)
like that link for PSu for 35$ outbit everyting (if you look at lablel) higher amsp everwhere and they said it's 420W PSU my is 450W and I have everything lover (except 1) lower..
here pics..

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FireFlyPower

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« Reply #40 on: 24-February-03, 17:17:13 »

Quote
Originally posted by wonkanoby
like most things you get what you pay for

buy a 550 antec or its enermax equivilent and never worry again


heh another time when i get new job (company go poof)
I need more info becosue in future I wanna build P4 system.
PS the antec company have pretty good tech data on their PSU
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« Reply #41 on: 24-February-03, 17:34:07 »

take no notice of peak amps or watts ,they are what it can do for a second not all day long

for them using that alone i would avoid the second one
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« Reply #42 on: 24-February-03, 17:42:48 »

Quote
Originally posted by wonkanoby
take no notice of peak amps or watts ,they are what it can do for a second not all day long

for them using that alone i would avoid the second one


I bit confused what you exseactly mean by "i would avoid the second one"
do you mean like you would avoid to have PSU (PCMCIS) the like 2nd picture i posted and would prefer have the first one (TigerPro)
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #43 on: 24-February-03, 17:47:39 »

yes i do ,makers that still quote peak amps are trying to fool people as far as im concerned
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« Reply #44 on: 24-February-03, 19:28:58 »

Hi,

My turn now..... :D
We are talking switching powersupplies here.......
I created a formula that combines the 3.3+5V and you take 2/3 of the wattage it gives as a number....
This was meant only to give a guide on cheap PSU's that doesn't mention anything on the label at all....
Nothing more then a guide....
BUT!!!!!!! here it comes!!!!

You can't just say I want to use a 1000W PSU that will be best, it doesn't work that way......
As it will fail just as bad....!
Switching PSU's have a min and max load to be stable.....
My calc is only a guide to find a good PSU that handle both, between min and max load.....
Because if you are below the minimum load it can get as unstable as if you get over the top....
That is why a decent PSU gives numbers like this:

3.3 2-28A
5 1-15A

It means your load has to stay between all off them to be stable....
More watts doesn't mean a more stable system.....
The middle rule between the numbers is the best!
Checking the label for the numbers is better then using my rule in any case.....!!!!
It's guide, no more or less.....
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« Reply #45 on: 24-February-03, 19:38:33 »

Thanks BAS  :D
I'll keep in mind.
PS make another guide on choosing good makers of PSU for pc  :))
PSS I am done with that topic (I got enough info)
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Wedlock

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« Reply #46 on: 24-February-03, 23:32:38 »


Does anyone have an idea, or knows an URL, where I could find the combined wattage for the q-tec 550W dual fan?

I'm thinking about buying one of those, but I don't know its combined load.. ;)

-w
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FireFlyPower

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« Reply #47 on: 24-February-03, 23:53:32 »

specs for this power supply i belive is:


AC           PEAK    MAX
+5v     =  40A      35A
+3.3    =  30A      20A
3.3+5=285W

+12     =  20A      14A --240W
-12      =  1.0A     0.5A--5W
-5        =  1.0A     0.5A--12W
+5VSB =  3A        n/a--n/a
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« Reply #48 on: 24-February-03, 23:53:34 »

here is ther site  http://www.qtec.info/products/pgroup.htm?mpg=PSU
but as you can see they list no specs there..........I would not buy any power supply from a company that does not posts its specs........dont care if it is gold plated or not.....

Get an Antec
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Wonkanoby

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« Reply #49 on: 25-February-03, 01:40:57 »

got one in my kids box

dont accept is a 550 watt as they quote all this peak crap

but it runs 4 drives a gf4600 and xp 1800
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Intel QX 6700
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