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Author Topic: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?  (Read 28374 times)

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dogshomeTopic starter

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Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« on: 27-December-08, 13:14:43 »

I just rebuilt my PC :-

Q6600
8800GT (*2)
4GB 800MHz DDR2
Samsung HD103UJ
800W 24+8 pin & 2*PCIE connectors
Foxconn G31 Motherboard >>> MS 7510 Platinum V1.0

PC has run very well with absolutely no problems for approx 4 months with the Foxconn mobo.


I wanted to go SLI, so got the new MSI mobo. Initially it booted and I started to look at the BIOS settings. I was selecting RAID when the keyboard stopped working. Hm. Reboot then. After that no video and no POST.

After a lot of component removal, reseating and general swapping of parts I am convinced the new mobo is the problem. I tried clear CMOS with the mains power off. Not sure, but the button did not feel like it was working properly. It may have been caught by the panel (holding it down). I removed the battery and it was low (2.9V) so I replaced it with a new one. Suspect the button was stuck down while I was looking at the BIOS with the power on :-(

Can't find any real answer as to whether this is my problem or not. There is a lot of negative feedback on this board (eg Newegg) and various RMAs and lots of posts about boot failures.

Is there a component that fails I can replace or has it just got its CMOS in a twist? Can this be straightened out by 'secret' links, testpoints or similar?


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Henry

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #1 on: 27-December-08, 13:33:38 »

 What is the correct name of your MB, is it P7N Diamond?
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #2 on: 27-December-08, 13:39:10 »

Hi Henry, yes it is P7N Diamond (780i).
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cas

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #3 on: 28-December-08, 00:04:50 »

Nah clearing cmos in the proper way as in the power is off wouldn't cause harm to the mobo. As long the power is not on when you're clearing cmos.

When you mention there's isn't any video, what about the fans, are the fans of the processor, graphic and psu is spinning when you power on your rig?

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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #4 on: 28-December-08, 07:14:20 »

 X-((  I think the cover plate was holding the button down whilst the power was on. For the 2 or 3 minutes it was alive.

CPU fan starts, HDD and power LEDs come on and stay on. LEDs on the board for occupied sockets come on. Power button works and it will go back into standby.


Other than that, dead as a doornail  :angryfire:


I can't seem to find a circuit diagram from a typical CMOS battery clear function. Also can't find a clear reason why the button/link would kill a mobo with power on. Why has the battery discharged. Does the button short it out? What's happened - has something fried or has the CMOS just got low volts and got scrambled. OR is it nothing to do with that and I just happened to upset it whilst paddling around in the BIOS setting. Can't see any burnt components. The button has 3V on it with power on.

You can probably tell this is bugging me and I can't send the board back.
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Ivan45nm

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #5 on: 28-December-08, 15:43:37 »

page 2-21 of your manual,,,,, Avoid clearing CMOS while the system is on; it will damage mainboard.
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #6 on: 28-December-08, 16:35:05 »

Yep I spotted that. So now I have done it (due to the back cover not fitting properly): What is broken;  what do I do to fix it   :confused2:

I have an SMD (de)soldering head and solder sucker, plus Scrooge-like attributes to not throw this expensive mobo in the bin  :shocked:
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cas

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #7 on: 30-December-08, 00:07:32 »

Hmm, just a thought, did you try swapping the ram as well as the graphic card?  :think:
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #8 on: 31-December-08, 10:47:57 »

Not swopped them completely. But I did remove one, then the other etc.

I've had a look on other sites and it seems this failing-to-post game isn't a new one.


If holding the cmos button down accidentally with the power on has damaged it - can someone explain why please  :bonk:
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Ivan45nm

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #9 on: 31-December-08, 16:22:20 »

is it worth trying to RMA it, and explain that the ill fitting I/O Plate is the cause of the issue
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Froggy Gremlin

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #10 on: 01-January-09, 00:49:43 »

Ivan45nm has a valid point. Luckily, when mine was built, the CMOS button alignment problem was noticed, & a rat tail file made the necessary clearance. Also, the Q6600 is a very popular CPU, but it seems that this nvidia 780i chipped board doesn't like it very well?

Feel free to use me as a confirming reference as to the CMOS I/O plate alignment problem.

This board was a handfull (at least for me), but once working, has proved pretty reliable OC'd or stock.
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Aaron

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #11 on: 01-January-09, 00:53:38 »

Once you get your system functional again, ditch that PSU.  It will not last you very long.
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #12 on: 01-January-09, 03:18:38 »

Well, just RMA, if you modified the board with all the solders, shops hardly accept the board as that might void the warranty

 :hat tip:
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #13 on: 01-January-09, 04:10:38 »

Might void the warranty? Dogshome, for any chance to get a replacement board, keep the soldering iron packed neatly in it's storage case.
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #14 on: 01-January-09, 05:22:09 »

Yeah what I meant was to solder all the legs properly as people can differentiate between machince soldering and hand soldering
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #15 on: 02-January-09, 08:43:40 »

Unfortunately I can't return it. I bought it 'new' from someone who'd (truly) just opened the packaging (and probably then read all the bad reports!). It did work work a few minutes with my Q6600.

I can borrow an older dual core from a friend and I might try that.


Nobody has any design note or circuit diagram for the MSI/Nvidia clear CMOS circuit then? If it's toast because of the button being held down and it can be seen that will happen from a drawing then I'll be happy(ish!) and repair or scrap as required.

Having it sitting there looking at me in a 'might-be-broken' 'might-just-be-playing-firmware-tricks' kind of way is  :shocking:

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #16 on: 02-January-09, 20:56:10 »

well if he or she is a good friend, explain what happened and ask them to RMA it for you
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #17 on: 02-January-09, 21:02:19 »

Well, judging from your situation I say its best just to RMA to avoid further consequences. :yes:
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #18 on: 03-January-09, 00:07:57 »

If the person you bought it from will RMA it for you, that looks like the best way to go. If that's a no-go, contact MSI & explain everything.

(Edit: 20/20 hind sight, I should have probably contacted MSI to report the CMOS button I/O plate alignment Mar. of last year).
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #19 on: 04-January-09, 04:20:27 »

I doubt that it can be returned - It came from ebay and it 'did' work  :cry:

No positive answers as to how holding the button down actually could damage the mobo from anyone then?  :confused2:
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #20 on: 04-January-09, 05:56:15 »

Other than what was said in the manual (2-12), I don't know the specific affected areas of the board. Contacting MSI still might be a good option at this point. They may even fix the board for a small fee, or with a good detailed explanation, exchange it with a refurb? To maybe fix the board yourself even if they provide tech specs & affected components of a CMOS button depressed & power on, another board you pick up 2nd or 3rd party, may have the same problems or something else wrong. When it comes to used parts, & you can't pretest them yourself, look at them with a skeptical eye.
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #21 on: 06-January-09, 13:10:01 »

Wel, my friends borrowed dual core hasn't made any difference. No beep codes although the CPU fan starts and is under control. Pressing reset does something....  Not given up yet though!

It did work when I got it and I don't think I would/could return it without a pack of lies  :nono:


How do you contact MSI about repairs?  I kind of figured the MSI HQ would be a font of MSI knowledge about something they print in every manual - the clear cmos warning -   :angel:
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #22 on: 06-January-09, 13:24:19 »

well if it were me id contact the person off of eBay and explain about the I/O plate and see if he will accept it back to take a look at, if he agrees he would more than likely RMA it for you,( i know i would if it were me selling it) at least then you've explored every route bar the repair by MSI
you got nothing to lose by askin
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #23 on: 06-January-09, 22:59:34 »

Have you tried removing the cmos battery. My reset switch had the same problem on my p45 platinum with the back plate. I pulled the cmos battery. Let it sit for about an hour. Of course with the power cord disconnected. Put the battery back in. Now it works like it never happen.
Good luck
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #24 on: 08-January-09, 12:44:44 »

Yep tried that thanks!

I read another thread here about serial BIOS recovery via the pin header. Now my MOBO isn't even trying the floppy or beeping the speaker: But it does power up and down and the CPU fan speed alters as the temperature changes.

We have a modern prommer at work that should accept serial EEPROM chips - I could make up a simple adaptor. This might be my next course.....  We've recovered someone elses BIOS on a PLCC chip before.


Unless someone knows the circuit for the clear cmos and can confirm it will have caused component failure?  :waiting:   :-P)  ;D
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #25 on: 14-January-09, 07:04:57 »

A new pre-programmed BIOS chip is £17 delivered. So that's less than a DIL header to flying lead PROMMER adaptor plus not having to find the right setup for our Dataman 4.

8 legs to cut. 8 to solder.

I'll post if it works (or otherwise)   :angel:
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #26 on: 14-January-09, 14:21:20 »

best of luck with it friend  :hat tip:
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #27 on: 15-January-09, 12:46:14 »

I always find that 'flogging a dead horse' gives some satisfaction  ;D

Chip is here (£14!).
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #28 on: 15-January-09, 14:24:55 »

Chip is in but still no POST  >:(



I think they maybe altered the CPU fan defaults in V1.2 because it responds differently now to the original V1.0 chip (fan runs-down to normal speed quicker). Convinced BIOS is loading and doing something!

I don't have a spare PCI-e video card and am using PCI (Voodoo1 ha-ha!) but horse is now in a mushy red squish.....................   ;-((


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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #29 on: 15-January-09, 15:45:23 »

unlucky there, worth a try, got a question for you, did the motherboard come with everything in the box or was there anything missing such as I/O plate or crossfire bridge?
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #30 on: 15-January-09, 16:46:39 »

The crossfire bridge was missing.....      :rolleyes:   :idea:
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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #31 on: 15-January-09, 17:21:00 »

now i bet your wondering why i asked and how could i know that?
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #32 on: 16-January-09, 05:11:27 »

There was nothing missing. All three SLI bridges were there and the only bag that had been opened was the main board.

It did work and I think it was my own stupid fault for not checking the CMOS button properly  :cry:
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #33 on: 22-January-09, 14:13:21 »

Last attempt. I borrowed a stick of 512M DDR2 ECC server RAM from out IT man at work. Can anyone confirm that this should work in this Mobo? The pinout and slot is the same and it physically fits...

It's micron 512M, DDR2, 400, CL3, ECC, REG. 1.8V

MT18HTF6472Y-40EB2

(PC2 3200 Hmmm...)
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Unhappy SLI system   :-(
MS-7510 V1.0
Q6600 b3
Buffalo D2U800C 2*2G
800W ebuyer PSU no-name 20A*4*12V
Samsung HD103UJ*2
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #34 on: 29-January-09, 13:48:20 »

RIP P7N  :cry:
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Unhappy SLI system   :-(
MS-7510 V1.0
Q6600 b3
Buffalo D2U800C 2*2G
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Samsung HD103UJ*2
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #35 on: 01-February-09, 17:24:27 »

And no-one cares  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
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Buffalo D2U800C 2*2G
800W ebuyer PSU no-name 20A*4*12V
Samsung HD103UJ*2
Asus 8800GT 256M *2 with Accelero S1+turbo
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Aaron

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #36 on: 01-February-09, 17:33:27 »

The thing left to do here is simple:  buy another board.

You really don't need someone to tell you that. :lol_anim:
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Henry

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #37 on: 01-February-09, 17:47:32 »


 
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dogshomeTopic starter

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Re: Clear CMOS button - can it damage your motherboard?
« Reply #38 on: 02-February-09, 12:45:57 »

TWO Forum gods care  :grin:
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Unhappy SLI system   :-(
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Buffalo D2U800C 2*2G
800W ebuyer PSU no-name 20A*4*12V
Samsung HD103UJ*2
Asus 8800GT 256M *2 with Accelero S1+turbo
OCZ Gladiator max
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