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Author Topic: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx  (Read 17253 times)

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chaoticTopic starter

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a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« on: 12-March-09, 19:52:31 »

i have a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx , how much better is the dka790gx compaired to the ka790gx ? . how much difference does the ACC function make to overclocking etc , i plan on getting a phenom II 940BE or 720BE . i already have the ka790gx so would it be worth building another system using the dka790gx mobo , or should i keep what i already have and just change the cpu ?
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Henry

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #1 on: 12-March-09, 21:13:59 »

 Here's a quickie on where the differences are. You can go to MSI website yourself and see just what the differences are.

1-DrMOS
2-DDR2 memory
3-PCIe/PCI slots
4-RAID
5-TPM
6-CrossFire
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #2 on: 12-March-09, 21:18:42 »

the site does not seem to be working correctly for me atm , this is why i am asking ;)


site error it gives me

Quote
/index.php: Got error 127 from storage engine


also why do some programs say that i have the 780g chipset with the sb750 ?
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Henry

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #3 on: 12-March-09, 23:53:42 »

 "also why do some programs say that i have the 780g chipset with the sb750 ?"
 
 Ignor it, it is a false reading. One of these days those programs shoud have updated versions to fix that reporting error. There are others that have the same problem with the 790 chipset.

 You should not have any problems with this link:

         http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=prodpage1&maincat_no=1
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #4 on: 13-March-09, 02:41:31 »

"also why do some programs say that i have the 780g chipset with the sb750 ?"
 
 Ignor it, it is a false reading. One of these days those programs shoud have updated versions to fix that reporting error. There are others that have the same problem with the 790 chipset.


you would have thought the latest version of AOD 2.1.6 would read it correctly lol , at the end of the day it is their chipset . cpu-z used to say it but the latest bios fixed that  , sisoft and aod both say incorrect names
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Pete B

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #5 on: 13-March-09, 10:12:10 »

2-DDR2 memory

You mean SidePort gfx memory surely? That is on the Platinum, the std DKA790GX doesn't have it but then there is an 'M' version of the KA790 that has it too. Both these boards have 4 slots/2 channels DDR2 up to 8Gb.

I have one of each of these boards in 2 different setups and find them both v good.

Just that slight BIOS issue with the KA790GX with HTT setting remaining on default under certain conditions whatever is set in BIOS as discussed elsewhere but other than that, no problems.
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Main PC
CPU - AMD Phenom x4 9950BE 125WTDP @ 2.6GHz
MoBo - MSI DKA790GX HTT @ 200MHz
RAM - 4x2Gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 8500/1066 MHz @ 6400/800MHz (4-4-4-12/2.0V)
Graphics Card - NVIDIA GeForce 6200 256Mb
Sound - Onboard
HDD - WD SATA2 120Gb + WD SATA2 160Gb + WD SATA2 200Gb
PSU - Corsair TX650 - 5V 30A, 3.3V 24A, 12V 52A
OS - Win XP Pro 64bit SP2

HTPC
CPU - AMD Athlon x2 4800+ (Brisbane) @ CPU/HTT x12
Mobo - MSI KA790GX (BIOS 1.4) HTT @ 210MHz
RAM - 2X1GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 6400/800MHz (5-4-3-11/2.2V)
Graphics Card - Sapphire HD 3450 512Mb
Sound - Onboard
HDD - WD SATA2 80Gb + WD SATA2 500Gb
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LanceH

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #6 on: 13-March-09, 13:39:59 »

The KA versions have weak VRMs - Custom PC mag in the UK has just blown one up running a low end Phenom.

Avoid.
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #7 on: 13-March-09, 14:05:57 »

The KA versions have weak VRMs - Custom PC mag in the UK has just blown one up running a low end Phenom.

Avoid.

i dont like the sound of that , i have one :( . i have looked at their website and found nothing about it
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Pete B

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #8 on: 13-March-09, 14:28:32 »

The KA versions have weak VRMs - Custom PC mag in the UK has just blown one up running a low end Phenom.

Avoid.

Reference then please?

Just done a search of the Custom PC website - nothing found, nor anything from a quick Google search.

The slightly older K9A2-CF (and the near eqivalents from Gb etc - at least MSI admitted it) with 790X & SB600 SB became known for having weak VRM's but that is well known now.

My DKA790GX has been running a top end phenom (9950BE) 24/7 for 3 months now without MoBo/CPU issue but then they do have a different heat dissipation setup. My KA790GX is running a lower power 4800 (65W) without issue but I've seen/heard nothing regarding failure of these MoBo's with 125W CPU's.
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Main PC
CPU - AMD Phenom x4 9950BE 125WTDP @ 2.6GHz
MoBo - MSI DKA790GX HTT @ 200MHz
RAM - 4x2Gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 8500/1066 MHz @ 6400/800MHz (4-4-4-12/2.0V)
Graphics Card - NVIDIA GeForce 6200 256Mb
Sound - Onboard
HDD - WD SATA2 120Gb + WD SATA2 160Gb + WD SATA2 200Gb
PSU - Corsair TX650 - 5V 30A, 3.3V 24A, 12V 52A
OS - Win XP Pro 64bit SP2

HTPC
CPU - AMD Athlon x2 4800+ (Brisbane) @ CPU/HTT x12
Mobo - MSI KA790GX (BIOS 1.4) HTT @ 210MHz
RAM - 2X1GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 6400/800MHz (5-4-3-11/2.2V)
Graphics Card - Sapphire HD 3450 512Mb
Sound - Onboard
HDD - WD SATA2 80Gb + WD SATA2 500Gb
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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #9 on: 13-March-09, 14:37:13 »

The KA versions have weak VRMs - Custom PC mag in the UK has just blown one up running a low end Phenom.

One board or more? Please show the article so we can show MSI there is a problem.
Else it's just a lose remark.
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Henry

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #10 on: 13-March-09, 15:21:07 »

"You mean SidePort gfx memory surely? That is on the Platinum, the std DKA790GX doesn't have it but then there is an 'M' version of the KA790 that has it too. Both these boards have 4 slots/2 channels DDR2 up to 8Gb."

 What I posted had nothing to do with the Platinum and SidePort.

This is the difference shown in the specifications for the 2 MBs in question:
 KA790GX - DDR2 533/667/800/1066
 DKA790GX - DDR2 667/800/1066
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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #11 on: 13-March-09, 15:43:27 »

Quote
KA790GX - DDR2 533/667/800/1066
DKA790GX - DDR2 667/800/1066

This is rubbish, both will take the exact same memory....memory controller is in the CPU, not the board.
Probably mistake by the MSI webteam when building the page.
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Henry

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #12 on: 13-March-09, 16:01:56 »

 Just posting what I found is all. :grin:
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #13 on: 13-March-09, 16:24:15 »

so it is a better version , i may get one of the dka790gx's after i upgrade from my 7750BE . thx all for the info  :biggthumbsup: , but i would like more info on the weak vrm issue
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walkerx

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #14 on: 14-March-09, 06:22:13 »

The KA versions have weak VRMs - Custom PC mag in the UK has just blown one up running a low end Phenom.

Avoid.

Tell them the whole story, custom-pc done a benchmark on various motherboards and processors to see how well the boards stood up for overclocking. The DKA790GX was one of 5 boards that failed the test and actually blew-up with only a slight a overclock.

 

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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #15 on: 14-March-09, 06:24:41 »

Tell them the whole story, custom-pc done a benchmark on various motherboards and processors to see how well the boards stood up for overclocking. The DKA790GX was one of 5 boards that failed the test and actually blew-up with only a slight a overclock.

 



got a link to this ?
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walkerx

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #16 on: 14-March-09, 08:12:38 »

got a link to this ?

nope it was in the actual magazine, i've checked their website to see if they've put up their latest results but they haven't as yet

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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #17 on: 14-March-09, 08:59:05 »

when was the issue out that included this review ?
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Stu

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #18 on: 14-March-09, 10:25:42 »

walkerx,

Please tell me which issue of Custom PC you saw this article, and the article title, and I will try and find it. :hat tip:

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walkerx

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #19 on: 14-March-09, 13:20:33 »

Issue 67, April 2009

but i've managed to get it scanned in, and posted to imageshack

ka790gx in custom pc of which the dka790gx is probably derived from

my mistake further up i posted DKA790GX when it was the KA790GX, the DKA790GX is totally different in the features it has, so would probably not have this issue.

Remember it wasn't the only board to have problems



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Henry

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #20 on: 14-March-09, 13:31:18 »

 Whatever, doesn't mean a thing without them saying what their settings were. Anybody can get stupid and overdo it.
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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #21 on: 14-March-09, 13:37:29 »

I used to be an avid reader of Custom PC magazine, but some of their 'reviews' left a lot to be desired, hence why I would take a review like this with a pinch of salt.
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walkerx

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #22 on: 14-March-09, 13:43:18 »

Whatever, doesn't mean a thing without them saying what their settings were. Anybody can get stupid and overdo it.

This is a magazine that has been around for years, and does a lot of testing, as they said it was only 1 of 5 boards that done this, so MSI weren't the only one's to have had problem, for all we know they could have been supplied a faulty board, nobody knows and never will. DFI had similar tests done and 1 of their boards blew, but a replacement for it was fine, so faulty products can be supplied.

I for one, try to look all over the net for reviews for products I want, as some magazines can be biased

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #23 on: 14-March-09, 14:10:39 »

Only one problem, the board doesn't overclock with AMD's, if you try that it will start doing strange.
With AMD's you only overclock the CPU and nothing else.
Because you overclock the CPU you can also overclock the memory as the memory controller is inside the CPU.

Boards only provide OC options in the BIOS for the CPU, nothing more.

So I really wonder what they blew to pieces...and what they used to do it.
Sorry to say, but a lot of magazines and reviewers copy each others articles and publish it as their own.
I don't trust their stories as often it's blown way out of proportion if they find something.
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walkerx

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #24 on: 14-March-09, 15:45:10 »

Only one problem, the board doesn't overclock with AMD's, if you try that it will start doing strange.
With AMD's you only overclock the CPU and nothing else.
Because you overclock the CPU you can also overclock the memory as the memory controller is inside the CPU.

Boards only provide OC options in the BIOS for the CPU, nothing more.

So I really wonder what they blew to pieces...and what they used to do it.
Sorry to say, but a lot of magazines and reviewers copy each others articles and publish it as their own.
I don't trust their stories as often it's blown way out of proportion if they find something.

information direct from msi website for the uk, as the board isn't mention on the us website

Quote
Easy OC Switch
• Help end-users upgrade CPU FSB directly
• Buy an essential CPU but want to reach higher performance
• Skip the complicated BIOS OC setting and enjoy the higher level CPU performance

if they use the switch then it should overclock without problems
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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #25 on: 14-March-09, 15:54:57 »

AMD's do not have an FSB.
Somebody doesn't know what they are writing again.
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #26 on: 14-March-09, 16:20:02 »

AMD's do not have an FSB.
Somebody doesn't know what they are writing again.

that may be so but why is it still called FSB in the cell menu in the bios and on the site ?
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Pete B

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #27 on: 14-March-09, 18:11:16 »

Issue 67, April 2009

but i've managed to get it scanned in, and posted to imageshack

ka790gx in custom pc of which the dka790gx is probably derived from

my mistake further up i posted DKA790GX when it was the KA790GX, the DKA790GX is totally different in the features it has, so would probably not have this issue.

Remember it wasn't the only board to have problems

From the article:

"CrossFire is supported thanks to the 2 16x PCI-E-2.0 slots"

With errors like that, the whole article becomes devalued. If they get confused over what board has what, then what else have they got mixed up on?

The KA709GX only has one 16x PCI-e slot and therefore can support hybrid CrossFire only. The DKA versions are required for the 2 16x PCI-E slots & true CrossFire.

Also, which Phenom is tested? Maybe the whole article is clearer on this but some of the older 9850 & 9950 versions being marketed are still 140W TDP, therefore OC'ing to that level will go above the 140W that these (and possibly any other) boards are capable of.
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Main PC
CPU - AMD Phenom x4 9950BE 125WTDP @ 2.6GHz
MoBo - MSI DKA790GX HTT @ 200MHz
RAM - 4x2Gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 8500/1066 MHz @ 6400/800MHz (4-4-4-12/2.0V)
Graphics Card - NVIDIA GeForce 6200 256Mb
Sound - Onboard
HDD - WD SATA2 120Gb + WD SATA2 160Gb + WD SATA2 200Gb
PSU - Corsair TX650 - 5V 30A, 3.3V 24A, 12V 52A
OS - Win XP Pro 64bit SP2

HTPC
CPU - AMD Athlon x2 4800+ (Brisbane) @ CPU/HTT x12
Mobo - MSI KA790GX (BIOS 1.4) HTT @ 210MHz
RAM - 2X1GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 6400/800MHz (5-4-3-11/2.2V)
Graphics Card - Sapphire HD 3450 512Mb
Sound - Onboard
HDD - WD SATA2 80Gb + WD SATA2 500Gb
PSU - Hiper 350W - 5V 25A, 3.3V 28A, 12V1 15A, 12V2 15A
OS - Dual boot Win XP Home 32bit SP2/Win 7 RC 64bit

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #28 on: 14-March-09, 18:19:47 »

that may be so but why is it still called FSB in the cell menu in the bios and on the site ?

I know, and it's stupid they do....but it's wrong...FSB is a Intel thing (AMD too before K8), but the K8 and up do not have it.
As FSB = FrontSize BUS, the K8 uses HyperTransport...HT-bus....no FSB in sight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperTransport

Have fun reading...
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #29 on: 14-March-09, 18:31:16 »

i read that months ago ;) , but back to my original question . would my ka790gx work ok with the 940be or would the 720be be better as i plan to overclock it
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LanceH

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #30 on: 15-March-09, 04:06:51 »

It's largely irrelevant what other boards had VRM issues other than the KA790GX - the fact is it died at stock settings. Since there is little cost difference between the more robust DKA790GX (or Platinum if you really need 1394) why bother with the proven weakling? There are other examples around of the KA not having a robust power section.  There's no way I would use even a 95W TDP CPU in the KA and absolutely not O/C.....!

As for the credentials of Custom PC, I have generally found their reviews accurate and balanced, and echo my own findings where applicable. If a little too infrequent.

The fact that the KA has such a huge VRM heatsink leads me to my other comments on the Forum, particularly regarding the "fudge" aspect:

"""Henry is spot on - the notion that adding a heatsink to the top of the D2PAK or whatever MOSFETS is effective is virtually worthless. The device's die thermal junction is the tab on the device back - which is always against the PCB pad. The majority of heat is therefore dissipated in to the board, and the fact that the epoxy plastic encapsulation gets hot is simply due to the inability of the heat to be conducted away from the device die via the tab. Not sure when Epoxy become an effective conductor of heat.... Good practice is to increase the size of the PCB pad (or "land" in American) such that the enlarged PCB copper area acts as an adequate heatsink. This is still not as effective as clamping a power device tab to an actual piece of ali or copper, but since the devices used are SMD devices, this is not possible. However, the surface area required to provide sufficient PCB copper area to act as a heatsink for several devices isn't available in the current motherboard layouts. Where industrial SBC designs differ in this respect is to place the VRM MOSFETs on the back of the PCB on very enlarged PCB pads - where real estate for components is not an issue.

Gigabyte's UD3 2oz copper mainboards sound like a good idea, on the face of it. However, without knowing how they have connected the device tabs to where and what remains a mystery. I suspect it is more hype than solution, although there will be some positive effect. From an electrical perspective, having lower resistance connecting whatever to whatever (probably just a 0V plane) is no bad thing.

The way the likes of ASUS sort of get round the problem is to increase the sheer number of MOSFET devices and effectively spread the heat dissipation over a larger physical area. This works to a degree, there is the same amount of heat being dissipated, but over several more square inches. The other advantage of this is that each leg of the VRM circuit passes less current and therefore localised heat is reduced. Remember that as well as absolute peak operating temperature causing reduced component life, thermal cycling stresses the mechanical aspects of components (die wire bonds for example) as well as the solder joints on the board. Keeping components at a relatively constant temperature, even if this is high (but within operating temperature limits), is a means of promoting longevity.

For myself, the first thing I do with a seperate VRM heatsink is take it off and use a quiet fan to blow air on to the VRM area of the PCB - this is where the heat is. This has the added benefit of actively cooling the inductors and capacitors too....

Cooling the epoxy component body is a fudge. If the epoxy (and thus any heatsink plonked on top of it) is running at 60C, the component die is way above that.....

It's better than nothing, but only just."""
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #31 on: 15-March-09, 05:03:34 »

at stock settings ? , i read they were running the ht @270 and overvolted . so how is this at stock speeds ?

you also mention the little cost difference , the ka790gx cost me £73 while the dka790gx costs £122 at the same store
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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #32 on: 15-March-09, 06:32:09 »

I paid £102 for the DKA790GX from Scan on Today Only. EBuyer were selling them for £105 Free delivery. EBuyer's prices are all over the place at them moment.

You can even buy them from Play for £119 delivered...

For all the reasons I have given, I would avoid the KA personally, or for my clients

The DKA is at least reliable, even if it has some minor faults....

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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #33 on: 15-March-09, 06:56:24 »

looks like a mobo change to the dka790gx next month and the Phenom II 720BE , wish i could get the 940BE but funds will not allow lol . thx all  :biggthumbsup:
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Stu

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #34 on: 15-March-09, 07:11:03 »

LanceH,

You'll find that not everyone is interested in overclocking. ;-))
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LanceH

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #35 on: 15-March-09, 07:12:16 »

Including me
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #36 on: 15-March-09, 07:56:39 »

tbh i am no overclocker lol , i just want a 3ghz cpu so the 940BE might be the way to go
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walkerx

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #37 on: 16-March-09, 16:36:34 »

AMD's do not have an FSB.
Somebody doesn't know what they are writing again.

I know, and it's stupid they do....but it's wrong...FSB is a Intel thing (AMD too before K8), but the K8 and up do not have it.
As FSB = FrontSize BUS, the K8 uses HyperTransport...HT-bus....no FSB in sight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperTransport

Have fun reading...


So if MSI can't get it right MSI KA790GX how they expect end-users to get it right :P


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Mike

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #38 on: 16-March-09, 22:11:27 »

It's not a matter of MSI getting it "right." This "error" is made all over the net at technical sites and across many manufacturers. It's more a misnomer than an "error."
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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #39 on: 17-March-09, 15:08:54 »

You could say that, or you could say the AMD marketing of the word hasn't been all successful. HT has many similarities to the old +3200 thing, where performance is said to be what is measured, not the frequency per se.
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baggzy

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #40 on: 10-July-09, 11:28:16 »

Hi all!  Thought I'd join the merry band of MSI owners. :agrees

So, chaotic, did you get a DKA790GX in the end?  How'd it work out? :biggthumbsup: :biggthumbsdown: ?

I know I'm a few months behind the times, but I just bought a KA790GX and a DKA790GX, so I've read up on both.  The KA is an oddball.  The motherboard layout is completely different to the DKA because it's basically the 780 motherboard with a 790 chipset.  As a result some of the 790GX features aren't available, because there's nowhere on the board for those pin-outs to solder in.  From what I've read the 790 can overclock much further than the 780, which may be why the capacitors on the KA can't cope with how far the Custom PC people pushed it.  270MHz is pretty high (the highest HTT of any of the boards in the Custom PC test).  By the way, the Custom PC article is now online here: http://www.custompc.co.uk/labs/605478/msi-ka790gx.html.

The KA is now going for £78 v £82 for the DKA.  For the difference you may as well just get the DKA and get the extra features.  I got one of each because they didn't have two DKA's in stock and I thought what the heck, the KA will do. :smile:  I haven't build my system yet, but I'll let you know how it goes...
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chaoticTopic starter

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #41 on: 11-July-09, 18:09:36 »

no i got a different brand cause of the price of the dka , i have put this board in my dads system cause he only browses the net  .
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baggzy

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Re: a few questions about the ka790gx and dka790gx
« Reply #42 on: 14-July-09, 10:09:04 »

Fair enough.  I'll let you know how I get on, in case you (or anyone else) is curious.  Most likely I'll blow the thing up... X-((
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