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Author Topic: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?  (Read 17096 times)

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jimcplTopic starter

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K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« on: 23-January-10, 01:23:25 »

Hi,

I've had a K9NBPM2-FID mobo for awhile, and from the beginning, I've had 6GB of GSKILL memory in it (I use Win2K3 Enterprise, which supports a bunch of memory). 

Awhile ago, my son gave me 2 2GB sticks of Transcend memory (JM4GDDR2-8K), but when I replaced the 2 1GB sticks of GSKILL memory, the system would crash constantly.

I finally got around to RMA'ing the Transcend memory, and the replacement memory just arrived today.

However, after I removed the 2 1GB sticks, and installed the new memory, the system is crashing again :(...

To be clear, by "crashing", I mean that it boots into Windows, and then, randomly, the system just reboots.

Also, I noticed that when the Transcend memory is in the system, the BIOS boot displays "667Mhz" for the memory speed, instead of "800Mhz".

I upgraded the BIOS to the latest on MSI's website, but that didn't seem to help.

I looked through the BIOS settings, and it looks like there aren't many settings to try to tweak.  I did try disabling "Spread spectrum", but that also didn't help.

I also ran Memtest86+ 4.00 on it, for about 5 hours, and it completed almost 2 passes with no errors.

So, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to why, when I have the full 8GB of memory in the machine, it crashes like that?  Any suggestions as to how to get the system stable with the full 8GB of memory?

Thanks,
Jim
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SEAGATE 500GB PATA
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PSU: (was Antec Earthwatts 500) Ultra LSP750

jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #1 on: 23-January-10, 01:26:05 »

P.S.  BTW, I have this machine setup for multibooting, and I ran it for awhile on Windows XP after installing the 2x2GB of memory, and it seemed like it was stable.  Of course, with WinXP, I only have 3GB+ available in Windows :(...

Jim
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #2 on: 23-January-10, 02:31:14 »

Hi,

I just swapped memory around, so that, first, the 2 Transcend sticks were in the 1st 2 slots (total 4GB).  With these 2 sticks in, BIOS showed 4GB and 800 Mhz.

As soon as I installed one of the 2GB GSKILL sticks (so total 6GB), BIOS shows 667 Mhz :(...

I'm testing to see if it crashes like this.

Jim
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #3 on: 23-January-10, 02:49:23 »

Hi,

The machine seemed to run ok with 6GB, but as soon as I added in the last 2GB GSKILL stick, it crashed again :(...

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #4 on: 23-January-10, 04:58:48 »

Mixing memories is not a good idea, and as your CPU only supports max 800mhz, if you use 4 sticks the speed will drop to 667mhz.

There is a sticky topic somewhere here that explains all this... :think: ;-))
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #5 on: 23-January-10, 05:16:51 »

Also set command-rate to 2T and speed 667.

And make sure to put the slowest sticks are put in first and checked dual channel, in the slots closest to the CPU.
Run CPU-z to verify.

Then fill the last slots with the other 2 sticks.

This to make sure the memory is balanced over the channels.
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #6 on: 23-January-10, 13:15:57 »

Hi,

Thanks for the info re. dropping back to 667Mhz with 4 sticks.  That had me worried.

I've looked through the BIOS settings, and I don't see anywhere to set memory timings.  The only memory-related setting that I could find was for voltage, and maybe "Spread spectrum (maybe not memory-related).  I've tried a couple of voltage settings (1.80, 1.90, 1.95, etc.) but still crashes with all 4 sticks.

I don't have a choice re. mixing brands in this case, as I was "given" the 2 Transcend 2GB sticks.

My only choice may be to go back to the original configuration, i.e., 2 x 2GB GSKILL and 2 x 1GB GSKILL, as that seemed to work.

Jim
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MSI K9NBPM2-FID  BIOS 5.50
AMD Athlon X2 5200+ Windsor
G.SKILL 4GB Kit (F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ)
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SEAGATE 500GB PATA
SEAGATE 200GB PATA
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Windows 2003 Enterprise Server SP2
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(http://www.eagle-techusa.com/Product_PC.asp?Product_ID=133)
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #7 on: 23-January-10, 14:32:55 »

Hi,

I need the machine to be working, for the moment, I put the original 4GB+2GB GSKILL memory back, and it's stable again (thank GOODNESS :)!!)...

If you have any suggestions as to how, if it's possible, to get this working with the full 8GB (other than buying another 4GB of GSKILL), pls post.

I'll be looking for some new GSKILL memory, but at the moment, I'm not looking to buy a new pair of 2GB sticks :(...

Thanks,
Jim
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MSI K9NBPM2-FID  BIOS 5.50
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #8 on: 23-January-10, 14:38:02 »

Hi,

BTW, I just saw this:

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php/topic,134892.0.html

and I also have an Antec PSU (500 earth-something).

I happen to have several new Ultra 750 PSUs sitting around, that I've been saving, and I wonder if maybe replacing the Antec PSU with one of the Ultra 750 PSUs might get the Transcend memory to work in this system?

Or, is the 12V issue only for graphics?

Jim
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #9 on: 23-January-10, 14:43:50 »

Hi,

Also, I'm curious:  As mentioned earlier, I ran Memtest86+ for quite awhile with the 8GB (total), and that passed fine.  Why would it crash when under Windows (vs. Memtest86+)?

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #10 on: 23-January-10, 15:00:09 »

Passing memtest do not guarantee that memory is fine.
Do deep testing ==> https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=103598.msg760534#msg760534
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #11 on: 23-January-10, 20:40:58 »

Passing memtest do not guarantee that memory is fine.
Do deep testing ==> https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=103598.msg760534#msg760534


Hi,

I may try what you suggested (Memtest 5+7)...  I'm still trying to decide what I want to do, but if I do run the additional memtest, I'll post back about that.

I "borrowed" a pair (2x2GB) of OCZ Fatal1ty sticks from one of my sons, and the machine seems to be running stable now, with the full 8GB (4GB G.Skill + 4GB OCZ).

I still am wondering if it would be worthwhile trying the other PSU.  Might that help/fix the problem?

Also, I'm still curious about the earlier post, about speed dropping to 667Mhz with 4 sticks.  With the 8GB now, the BIOS shows 667, but it's still dual-channel, as opposed to, with the Transcend memory, single-channel.

If anyone knows about the above 2 things, let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

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MSI K9NBPM2-FID  BIOS 5.50
AMD Athlon X2 5200+ Windsor
G.SKILL 4GB Kit (F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ)
G.SKILL 2GB Kit (F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ)
SEAGATE 500GB PATA
SEAGATE 200GB PATA
WD RAPTOR 150GB SATA
SEAGATE 320GB SATA
WD 750GB SATA ("Green")
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(http://www.eagle-techusa.com/Product_PC.asp?Product_ID=133)
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #12 on: 23-January-10, 20:59:02 »

Mixing memories is not a good idea, and as your CPU only supports max 800mhz, if you use 4 sticks the speed will drop to 667mhz.

There is a sticky topic somewhere here that explains all this... :think: ;-))


Stu,

Is this:

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php/topic,130043.0.html

where it says:

"To get the most out of your memory, use two sticks in dual channel mode. If you use 4 sticks, then your memory will work, but only at a lower speed."

what you were referring to above (about dropping to 667)?

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #13 on: 23-January-10, 21:17:08 »

Hi,

I may try what you suggested (Memtest 5+7)...  I'm still trying to decide what I want to do, but if I do run the additional memtest, I'll post back about that.

I "borrowed" a pair (2x2GB) of OCZ Fatal1ty sticks from one of my sons, and the machine seems to be running stable now, with the full 8GB (4GB G.Skill + 4GB OCZ).

I still am wondering if it would be worthwhile trying the other PSU.  Might that help/fix the problem?

Also, I'm still curious about the earlier post, about speed dropping to 667Mhz with 4 sticks.  With the 8GB now, the BIOS shows 667, but it's still dual-channel, as opposed to, with the Transcend memory, single-channel.

If anyone knows about the above 2 things, let me know.

Thanks,
Jim




Hi,

Sigh :(...  Need to correct the above.  System crashed, even with the 2x2GB G.Skill + 2x2GB OCZ memory :(...

Jim
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #14 on: 23-January-10, 21:21:21 »

Hi,

I'm currently running the memtest86+ test #5, but, in the meantime, I'm starting to think that this isn't a memory problem, but maybe something else?  Maybe the PSU, maybe Windows 2003 itself?

Comments?

Jim
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jimcplTopic starter

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #15 on: 24-January-10, 02:39:11 »

Hi,

I ran the memtest #5 test, 20 passes, and got 0 errors :(...  Am now running the #7 test...

So, I guess I'm asking again:  If it's not memory, what else could be the problem?  Recall that the system runs stably with the 6GB G.SKILL memory...

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #16 on: 24-January-10, 09:37:20 »

Hi,

I ran the memtest #5 test, 20 passes, and got 0 errors :(...  Am now running the #7 test...

So, I guess I'm asking again:  If it's not memory, what else could be the problem?  Recall that the system runs stably with the 6GB G.SKILL memory...

Jim

Hi,

I'm currently running the memtest86+ test #5, but, in the meantime, I'm starting to think that this isn't a memory problem, but maybe something else?  Maybe the PSU, maybe Windows 2003 itself?

Comments?

Jim



Hi,

Sigh :(...  Need to correct the above.  System crashed, even with the 2x2GB G.Skill + 2x2GB OCZ memory :(...

Jim

Test by this way:
Get Orthos, (https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=99013.0) use Large FFT's in-place, set priority to 9, run test at least 12 hours ensure no errors there.


Quote
Maybe the PSU, maybe Windows 2003 itself?
Quote
System crashed,

Do the Orthos test suggested above.
Give more info about the "crash".
Where exactly its crashed? Describe the crash: BSOD? lockup? reboot? shutdown by itself?

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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #17 on: 24-January-10, 11:51:21 »

Test by this way:
Get Orthos, (https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=99013.0) use Large FFT's in-place, set priority to 9, run test at least 12 hours ensure no errors there.


Do the Orthos test suggested above.
Give more info about the "crash".
Where exactly its crashed? Describe the crash: BSOD? lockup? reboot? shutdown by itself?




Svet,

As posted in the first msg:

"To be clear, by "crashing", I mean that it boots into Windows, and then, randomly, the system just reboots."

The shutdowns/reboots are kind of random.  They *seem* to happen when the system is "doing more", but that's just a 'guess' on my part.

Jim
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(http://www.eagle-techusa.com/Product_PC.asp?Product_ID=133)
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #18 on: 24-January-10, 11:52:58 »

follow suggestions above, also check the CPU for overheating
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #19 on: 24-January-10, 13:29:51 »

follow suggestions above, also check the CPU for overheating

Svet,

I've finished the memtest #5 and #7 tests, with no errors (20 passes each).  There is no overheating, according to BIOS monitor.

I can't do the rest (Orthos, etc.) as Windows won't stay up (system crashes/reboots soon after I get into Windows).

Next steps?

Jim
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MSI K9NBPM2-FID  BIOS 5.50
AMD Athlon X2 5200+ Windsor
G.SKILL 4GB Kit (F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ)
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SEAGATE 500GB PATA
SEAGATE 200GB PATA
WD RAPTOR 150GB SATA
SEAGATE 320GB SATA
WD 750GB SATA ("Green")
Windows 2003 Enterprise Server SP2
Case: Eagle KSR 4500 Mid Tower Case
(http://www.eagle-techusa.com/Product_PC.asp?Product_ID=133)
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #20 on: 24-January-10, 14:06:23 »

Quote
I can't do the rest (Orthos, etc.) as Windows won't stay up (system crashes/reboots soon after I get into Windows).

Next steps?

That's suggest OS problem, try do clean OS install and see how its goes.


Quote
Windows 2003 Enterprise Server SP2

Put XP and see how its going there.
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #21 on: 24-January-10, 14:28:16 »

That's suggest OS problem, try do clean OS install and see how its goes.


Hi,

I was thinking of that (re-install Win2K3 Enterprise).  I'm wondering if maybe, since I installed before the 6GB->8GB, that maybe there's something else in Win2K3 that needs to be set.  PAE is already enabled in boot.ini, but maybe 4GT or /3GB. 

Put XP and see how its going there.

WinXP only sees 3GB+, so would running Orthos, etc. under WinXP really help?

Jim
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AMD Athlon X2 5200+ Windsor
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(http://www.eagle-techusa.com/Product_PC.asp?Product_ID=133)
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #22 on: 25-January-10, 06:59:18 »

You have a reboot without BSOD? Or do you get a BSOD if you turn off automatic restart of Windows?

Without: Your processor can't manage. Set memory speed down of decrease the amount of memory.
With BSOD: Could except for above be a non-optimal Windows installation/configuration.
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Hi,

I am really glad to report that I *think* that my problem has been solved :)!!

What I did was replace the original Antec Earthwatts 500 power supply with an Ultra 750 power supply.

The machine has been up now, for about an hour, and appears to be stable so far (no more spontaneous reboots).

This is with the 2x2GB G.Skill + 2x2GB Transcend memory, total 8GB :)!!

Thanks for all of the suggestions in this thread, but I figured it'd be useful to report this.

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #24 on: 25-January-10, 08:16:48 »

It is! Very! Thank you kindly!  :biggthumbsup:
You must be all smile now.
To be picky: The Ultra may be better than the Antec, but there are far better still. But if things run be happy!
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #25 on: 25-January-10, 08:31:16 »

Fredrik,

You got that (all smiles) right :)!!

I spent almost all weekend on this, and I am glad that it seems to be working, but I'm kicking myself for not having tried the new PSU earlier :(...

Understood about better PSUs, but I happened to have two brand-new Ultras that I got a really good deal on awhile ago, that I've been "saving".  Quite honestly, I was kind of doubtful that it'd be the power supply, and, as I said, I was saving the Ultras for either a new future build or maybe sale on Ebay, but after many, many hours, and a good night's sleep, I decided that it was a quick thing to test.  Besides that, I already had the Transcend memory, which I also got for free, and I hated having to waste those.

Anyway, "All's well that ends well" :)...

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #26 on: 25-January-10, 12:53:55 »

Hi,

Sorry to prolong this thread a little longer, but I'm still kind of surprised, and curious, about why the new PSU would've made this work....

Here's the original Antec:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

and, here's the new (working one) Ultra 750:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3276567&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs

So, the specs are:

--3.3V+5V+12V1+12V2-12V+5VSB
Antec25A24A22A22A0.8A2.5A
Ultra28A32A45A---0.6A2A


I'm curious which of thise voltages made the difference?

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #27 on: 25-January-10, 13:11:45 »

Probably the stronger single 12v rail of the Ultra. ;-))
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #28 on: 25-January-10, 16:41:29 »

Antec is crap with PSU's, I have seen many fail and not able to produce anything near the amps they promise to do.

Glad you proved that also by moving to a more powerfull PSU :biggthumbsup: :lol_anim:

However, to be honest, Ultra isn't very good either, 45A for a 750W? That's not a lot.
Most decent 750's do about 60A @ 12V.

Heck a Corsair VX550 does the same as your Ultra, probably cheaper too.

Very sorry, but couldn't resist. :bonk:
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #29 on: 25-January-10, 17:41:14 »

Antec is crap with PSU's, I have seen many fail and not able to produce anything near the amps they promise to do.

Glad you proved that also by moving to a more powerfull PSU :biggthumbsup: :lol_anim:

However, to be honest, Ultra isn't very good either, 45A for a 750W? That's not a lot.
Most decent 750's do about 60A @ 12V.

Heck a Corsair VX550 does the same as your Ultra, probably cheaper too.

Very sorry, but couldn't resist. :bonk:


Bas,

I doubt that ANY PSU would be cheaper than what I paid for the Ultra 750s.  I just wish I had bought more of them now (at that price) :)...

Later,
Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #30 on: 25-January-10, 17:42:15 »

Hi,

BTW, I'm still looking for the reference re. 4 sticks ==> 667Mhz.  Curious about that...

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #32 on: 25-January-10, 18:39:20 »

 I've had problems with my Ultra. 1st it blew a couple of capacitors when I swapped out a 9600GT for a 250GTS and I repaired it. Yesterday I discoveerd some little niggling problems I thought were caused by RAM or failing HDD or or bad SATA data cables was actually bad SATA power connectors on the PSU and now have only 2 good SATA power connectors on it. I sure hope the Ultra lasts long enough to save up a few more dollars so I can finally get another Corsair PSU for this rig.

 Yes like Bas said those Antecs are overpriced and overrated. It seems like there must be 3 or 4 a week we see go down the tubes lately.
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #34 on: 25-January-10, 21:44:40 »

Hi,

Sorry.  This thread seems to be turning into "the never-ending story" :(...

I've updated my signature.  As you can see, I had/have a bunch of drives in this system (I kind of collect them :))...

Anyway, when I got back home this evening, I spent some time installing the Ultra PSU (I hadn't installed the PSU into the case earlier, when I reported the system no longer spontaneously rebooting) and cleaning up the system (I had some of the hard drives unplugged earlier).

Well, when I finally got around to powering the system, guess what (you can probably guess, right :)?)?

Yep, back to crashing/reboots :(...

So, I started unplugging power from drives, until I now have all of the drives powered, except for the old Seagate 200GB and the DVD burner, and it's running ok. 

It looks like, if I also plug in the 200GB and the DVD burner (I haven't tested with one or the other yet), along with all the other drives, I get the reboots...

Aside from the obvious "junk power supply", this all still seems a little strange to me.  Remember, this exact same system was running fine (for over a year) with all of those drives, including the 200GB and the DVD burner previously, with the Antec 500W PSU, albeit with the 6GB (G.Skill 2x2GB + G.Skill 2x1GB) memory, instead of with the 8GB (G.Skill 2x2GB + Transcend 2x2GB) memory that I have in there now.

Sorry, it just doesn't make much sense to me :(...

I do have one other question:  I think that earlier in this whole ordeal, I had changed the DDR voltage from the default 1.9V to 1.8V, and I think that's what it's set to now.  I'm wondering, if I bump that back up to 1.9V, would the system run ok, including with the DVD and the 200GB drive?  That's the next "experiment" :)...

Jim




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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #35 on: 26-January-10, 04:13:15 »

That CPU of yours only support 4 sticks at 667 and 2T command.

But why do you try to put so much memory in? Do you have special 64bit software that uses it?
As 32bit software won't use it, no matter if your OS can access more.
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #36 on: 26-January-10, 09:25:25 »

That CPU of yours only support 4 sticks at 667 and 2T command.

But why do you try to put so much memory in? Do you have special 64bit software that uses it?
As 32bit software won't use it, no matter if your OS can access more.


Hi Bas,

I'm running Win2K3 Enterprise, which supports either 32GB or 64GB memory, I think.

The reason that I need/want that much memory is that I do a lot of development using virtual machines, either MS VPC or VMware, and sometimes, I need to have several of the virtual machines running simultaneously.

Jim
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #37 on: 26-January-10, 10:19:14 »

That only helps if you run 64bit Host OS and 64bit VMware.

What version of the sever do you have installed?
When it's a 32bit version the extra ram isn't of much use.
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Re: K9NBPM2-FID and 8GB memory = CRASH?
« Reply #38 on: 26-January-10, 14:11:52 »

That only helps if you run 64bit Host OS and 64bit VMware.

What version of the sever do you have installed?
When it's a 32bit version the extra ram isn't of much use.


Bas,

I don't mean to argue, but I have to "beg to differ"...

As I mentioned, I originally had 6GB in this machine, and have always been running Win2K3 Enterprise (32-bit), so it's been awhile, and I've been using this for development for test configurations, etc.

The whole reason that I started this whole thing about upgrading to 8GB was that a couple of weeks again, I was working on a project where I had to have two largish machines (guests).  Both were 64-bit guests, running under VMware Workstation (32-bit).  One guest was running Oracle 11G DB, and I allocated 2.5GB memory to that.  The other guest was for an application we're working with, and I initially allocated 2.5GB for it also.  I installed 64-bit Redhat on both guests.

I was then able to run both guests simultaneously under VMware workstation, i.e., 2.5GB+2.5GB = 5GB guests' memory.

The reason I'm looking to go to 8GB on my machine is that that application LOVES memory, and I'd really like to increase the amount of memory I allocate to that guest, maybe to 3GB, which I think would be the maximum per process/application that would be allowable, since I'm running 32-bit VMware Workstation and Win2K3 Enterprise 32-bit.

I think that, with "PAE", each process/application can use UP TO 3GB, i.e., 32-bit Windows 2003 Enterprise supports something like 32GB or 64GB, but each application can only use up to 3GB.

Sorry for the long-windedness :)...

Anyway, this is getting a little off-topic?  I'd like to keep this thread focussed on the rebooting problem...

Thanks,
Jim
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