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N49ATV

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Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« on: 24-December-11, 18:06:29 »

Merry Christmas,

My Rig to start:
MSI Z68A-GD65 (g3) BIOS 23.1B5 100010 Base clock (to bring it to 100.1)
i5 2500K under Noctura NH-D14 (N-S)
16GB G.Skill DDR3 1333 CL9 (4x4GB)
Crucial M4 128GB (on Intel Sata3)
MSI R6950 TF II, 900/1325 (1168mV) 6970 Unlocked
Logitech G510/Performance MX


I haven't OCed in years. I finally upgraded my antique machine (S478 P4HT 3.0C, Asus P4C800DLX, OCZ Plat Rev 2).

So I have been messing around with my 2500k, and no matter what I try, I cant get it to load windows if I change the multiplier. I updated the bios to latest Beta, as I couldnt enter the bios with my G510, and mouse was twitchy in stock bios.
I have even tried to set the same settings as OC Genie, and no go. OC genie works. If I change the multiplier, it posts, and goes to MSI splash screen, then when it normally loads windows it just blinks. I have tried some of the bios settings I have seen around the web in OC posts, and even tried giving more voltage than needed (like 4.0/4.2ghz on 1.4V core).

So before I get to crazy, I was wondering if someone can post what everything does, or spot I can see what they all do. Also whats the stock bios look like on these boards, because if I load the defaults, the only thing that seems to change is base clock, multiplier, and core voltage. Things like power options etc, dont go back to enabled.
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Bernhard

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #1 on: 25-December-11, 08:31:23 »

Start your machine with OC Genie enabled. You did say those settings work ?  :think:
If so, let it load into the OS once. Then restart and go into the BIOS. Save this OC Genie setting as a Profile.
Save and shutdown. Disable OC Genie. Go into the BIOS and apply your saved profile. Save and restart. Test if it loads.
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dubflex

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #2 on: 25-December-11, 10:40:36 »

Update Bios to last version to fix your keyboard and mouse issues, lastest official/beta fix G50 cause your bios look like first one (not update).
Using MSI HQ Flash Tool you shuld get this report
MSIHQ: Information detected by MSIHQ Tool ver: 1.19R9
MSIHQ: Report generated in 24/12/2011 at 22:58:23,87
*********************************
Mainboard:  Z68A-GD65 (G3) (MS-7681)
PCB Version:  4.0
BIOS Version: VN.4B9 (aka Version: V23.4B9)
BIOS Date:  14/12/2011
*********************************

I use turbo mode for overclock leaving nearly all voltages at auto , except ram (set to ram specifications).
I think the problem is on those 16 gb ram try to make OC test with just 8gb on dual channel at stock speeds setting manual voltages and timings.
I can try to make son snaps of my config if you want cause we have similar rig

-MSI Z68-GD65 (g3) Bios -> B49
-i5 2500k  4.6Ghz / NOCTUA NH-U9B SE2
-Corsair Vengeance Low Profile White (1.35V) 8GB 1600
-Samsung 830 128 GB SSD
-MSI GTX560-TI OC 2GB/DDR5
-OCZ ZS 750W
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #3 on: 25-December-11, 19:59:46 »

Ill give that a go tomorrow or the next day. Right now im running OC Genie II @ 4.2 just fine.
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #4 on: 26-December-11, 21:37:06 »

Where can I download the B49 Bios, i went into the beta thread, but all i see is N31 as the last one listed in the sig?
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #6 on: 27-December-11, 12:09:34 »

Well, I updated the bios,

im still having issues. It double posts all the time, and now tells me its not using the first bios rom when trying to OC (not oc genie II). Im thinking double post is a failed post on main bios, then loads backup with stock speeds?

Here is what im after,

Id like a nice high OC, without running into temp issues, or 100% fan speed on the NH-D14. Ideally id like to be in the 4.8 area if my chip allows it, and thats the sweet spot. Id like to maintain the step down to 16x multi. After that, it dont really matter.
« Last Edit: 27-December-11, 12:30:06 by N49ATV »
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dubflex

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #7 on: 27-December-11, 19:11:29 »

This motherboard have dual bios so if the first get corrupted makes double post and use the secondary, if i'm not mistake (never run in any issue yet), try to flash again using the usb method posted in this forums, and be sure to clear cmos after. Nest time you boot you should get a msg with the bios version and 2 options configure bios or continue (only happen first time after cmos clear or bios update). On first boot load default and reboot.
Hope that fix your double post issues.
Reaching 4.8 depend only in your cpu if your i5 2500k have letter B in the batch XXXXBXXX should reach 4.8-5, if the batch is A is hard to get more than 4.6, and if you ubber lucky and get a C batch your cpu get 5.0 with ease and low voltage
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #8 on: 27-December-11, 19:26:54 »

Well it's triple posting this morning. If it triple posts it won't do anything at all, I pretty much have to reboot it till it gets to flash menu. When it hangs I can't restart it with reset. Gotta hard power off.

I can stop it before it hangs and enter beta bios. Sometimes 2nd bios 23.1.

At this point kinda wishing I had waited a week and got the Asus that came out just after I ordred mine.

Im batch B
« Last Edit: 27-December-11, 19:35:17 by N49ATV »
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Bernhard

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #9 on: 27-December-11, 19:52:30 »

Use the forum flasher and flash to the latest final BIOS available from the MSI site now.
After that flash do a full CMOS clear and remove the CMOS battery,  Also suggest you first boot with only one RAM module in the slot closest to the CPU and see what it does.
As for the other brand, you should frequent their forum more and you will soon realise that no one is without their troubles. http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=P8Z68+DELUXE%2fGEN3&SLanguage=en-us     :yes:
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #10 on: 27-December-11, 20:01:59 »

Oh each brand has thier issues for sure, i have just never had issues OCing my Asus boards in the past. This board doesnt even like anything above stock without OC genie.

Ill try an official bios again. I reflashed the beta this morning, see how it goes, issue with last final release, is I have to use a seperate keyboard to enter the bios, as my G510 doesnt work with final release bios. Which the beta fixed.
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Bernhard

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #11 on: 27-December-11, 20:06:47 »

Bios 23.4 dated 2011-12-14 is on the site. Is that the one you tried ?
I suspect a RAM issue with 4 slots filled. Thats why I would test with either 1 or 2 modules first to check if it makes a difference.
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #12 on: 27-December-11, 20:08:40 »

Ah the last one I tried about a week ago was 23.3, stock was 23.1.

Ill try pulling some ram, just a PITA with the ND-D14 lol. But im off to buy another truck, ill pop back in later tonight with results.
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Bernhard

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #13 on: 27-December-11, 20:11:32 »

23.1 and 23.2 were very buggy, I have not tried the 23.4 I am still on the .N48 beta. But as far as I can make out 23.4 includes all the fixes up to .N49
And I know the Noctua is huge, I have the -C14 on my P67 and its not easy,  ;-))
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dubflex

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #14 on: 27-December-11, 20:31:00 »

I suspect a RAM issue with 4 slots filled. Thats why I would test with either 1 or 2 modules first to check if it makes a difference.
I think the same, 4 modules are problematic sometimes, a lot of people fix that using 10-10-10-27 latencies instead of the default 9-9-9-24. Anyway i leave my OC config.

CPU Base Frequency [10kHz] 10000
Adjust CPU Ratio [34]
Adjust CPU ratio in OS [Disabled]
Internal PLL Overvoltage [Disabled]
EIST [Enabled]
Intel Turbo Boost [Enabled]
DRAM Frequency [DDR3-1600Mhz] *** TRY FIRST ON AUTO WITH 1-2 MODULES***
Extreme Memory Profile(XMP) [Enabled] *** TRY FIRST DISABLED ***
DRAM Timing Mode [Link] *** MANUAL SET LATENCIES***
Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
VDroop Control [Low VDroop]
CPU Core Voltage [Auto]
CPU I/O Voltage [Auto]
DRAM Voltage [1.365 V] *** MY RAM WORKS AT THIS VOLTAGE/ TRY ON AUTO FIRST***
GPU Voltage [Auto]
System Agent Voltage(SA) [Auto]
CPU PLL Voltage [1.800000 V]
DDR_VREF_CA_A [Auto]
DDR_VREF_CA_B [Auto]
DDR_VREF_DA_A [Auto]
DDR_VREF_DA_B [Auto]
PCH 1.05 [Auto]

 "CPU Features" section.
Active Processor Cores [All]
Limit CPUID Maximum [Disabled]
Execute Disable Bit [Enabled]
Intel Virtualization Tech [Enabled]
Power technology [Custom]
C1E Support [Disabled]
OverSpeed Protection [Disabled]
Intel C-State [Enabled]
Intel C-State limit [C2]
Long duration power limit(W) 200
Long duration maintained(ms) 1000
Short duration power limit(W) 250
Primary plane turbo power limit(W) 0
Secondary plane turbo power limit(W) 0
1-Core ratio Limit 46  *** HERE IS WHERE YOU SET THE OC**** I got 4.8 estable but Voltage was 1,386 on load and only 1,342 with 4.6
2-Core ratio Limit 46
3-Core ratio Limit 46
4-Core ratio Limit 46

ECO TAB
EUP 2013 [Disabled]
CPU Phase Control [Intel SVID Mode]
Motherboard LED Control [Auto]
C1E support [Disabled]
Intel C-state [Enabled]
Package C State limit [C2]
« Last Edit: 27-December-11, 20:34:13 by dubflex »
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #15 on: 27-December-11, 23:41:03 »

Ill look through. I dont get the option for XMP, but thats fine, I dont need to OC the memory, what really confuses me is why OC genie works, yet if I set the exact same settings, it wont boot.

So with your setup above, thats a turbo overclock? So if it thinks it needs turbo mode, it ramps up? Does it still go down to 1600mhz when idle?
« Last Edit: 27-December-11, 23:53:07 by N49ATV »
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dubflex

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #16 on: 28-December-11, 00:19:46 »

Yes is OC by turbo, so when you cpu load cpu ratio jump to 4.6 and (1,34V) and when you idle you stay at 1.6 (0.96)V.
Those power saving options come from enabled *Intel C-State [Enabled] Intel C-State limit [C2]*
C1E Support [Disabled] is another saving feature but i get higher voltage on idle with this option
Haven't test both options at same time
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #17 on: 28-December-11, 00:27:42 »

Well pulled 2 sticks, tried stock, tried oc genie (both work), tried manual oc, no dice. Tried your settings above, posted and booted. Ran at 1600 idle, put on intel burn test, loaded it up, only went to 34 multiplier through 10 runs at 100% load

And yes its on maximum test. Id like to run higher, basically I built this to play skyrim (which runs good at 4.2), but its shown to gain FPS with higher CPU clocks, so I wanna see how high it helps, and find a nice OC and stay there. So if turbo mode only goes to 3.4 thats not gonna help me, so ill have to force manual OC on there.

Also is there a way to flash the second bios? Id like to try the new one (doing so right now, getting it ready), if it works with my keyboard id like to flash it to that. Because the stock bios doesnt work with my keyboard (cant get in), is that possible?
« Last Edit: 28-December-11, 00:44:11 by N49ATV »
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #18 on: 28-December-11, 00:57:01 »

Quote
Also is there a way to flash the second bios? Id like to try the new one (doing so right now, getting it ready), if it works with my keyboard id like to flash it to that. Because the stock bios doesnt work with my keyboard (cant get in), is that possible?
Some say if you have the Auto Update 'Enabled', it will flash the secondary in addition to the flashing of the primary, although confirmation of this has not been verified.

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #19 on: 28-December-11, 00:59:41 »

Check that and core clocks
OverSpeed Protection [Disabled]
Intel Turbo Boost [Enabled]
And try to flash bios again using the usb key method posted in forums, cause if you boot with second bios you are using and old one with some bugs, if you enable Bios Multi-update second bios would copy to main bios when first one is detected as corrupted at least that probably solve your double post problem
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #20 on: 28-December-11, 01:28:52 »

Downgrading bios now
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #21 on: 28-December-11, 01:59:18 »

Well, downgraded to 23.4, double posts, but loads into windows with 23.4 (according to click bios II, and CPUID). Still only goes to 34x.

Here is what I have:
Base Clock: 10000
Ratio: 33
Adjust Ratio in OS [E]
Internal PLL Over [E]
EIST [E]
Turbo [E]
Dram:1333
Timing Mode [link]
GT OC: [E] (only available in OS version of bios?)
GT Ratio [22]
Spread Spectrum [D]
Vdroop: [Low Vdroop]
CPU Core [A]
CPU I/O [A]
Dram Volt [A]
GPU Volt [A]
SA [A]
CPU PLL Volt [1.800000V]


CPU:
Active Processor Cores [all]
Limit CPUID Max [D]
Execute Disable Bit [E]
Intel Virt Tech [E]
Power [Custom]
C1E [D]
Overspeed [D]
C-State [E]
C State Limit [C2]
Long Duration Power [200]
Long Duration Time [1000]
Short Duration Power [250]
Primary Plane Turbo Power

Secondary Plane Turbo Power

1 Core Ratio [48]
2 Core Ratio [48]
3...[48]
4...[48]

Eco
2013 [D]
CPU Phase [intel SVID]
Mobo LED [A]
C1E [D]
Intel C-state [E]
C-state limit [C2]


Keeps telling me im not using first bios, but rather second. Boots with 23.4 (last official dated Dec 14, 2011).

I tried messing with Control Center, set the Vcore to 1.4, and slowly raised multi with standard IBT running. Held at 45, crashed at 46. Of course this isnt the best way to test it, infact id be its horrible lol, but just kept going up, CPU runs fine. Im sure changing it mid test isnt the best. Ill try again real quick without test on. Issue is without test, it clocks down, so cant see my forced values.
« Last Edit: 28-December-11, 02:12:22 by N49ATV »
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #22 on: 28-December-11, 02:49:32 »

Set Primary & Secondary Turbo Power to 200-250 range. Disable GT Overclocking. On Auto CPU V., I think setting 4.8 is a bit too much on the 4 cores.
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #23 on: 28-December-11, 02:50:39 »

I have to disable GT in the OS bios, ill give that a go.
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #24 on: 28-December-11, 03:23:10 »

Well, it keeps double posting, and telling me I'm jot using first bios. When I go into bios it tells me I'm using 23.4, windows says that, but not doing anything. Bios flash tool keeps telling me I'm still using n49 beta. How to I flash over the beta bios? With a lower number?



Well, tried the restore to older bios option. It's bricked. Said was all good, rebooted after I hit y, all lights up and no display or keyboard power. Onboard video, pci-e nada. Clear CMOS and battery removal does not fix it.


Now what?

Edit*

Well tried hitting oc genie button, it's cycle booting now. With blue led on for a second, then it reboots with it on slow flash, then reboots to fast flash, back to single on for a sec, again to slow flash, and booted to windows.
« Last Edit: 28-December-11, 03:34:28 by N49ATV »
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #25 on: 28-December-11, 03:31:26 »

What does the BIOS LED indicate? Solid or flashing?
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #26 on: 28-December-11, 03:35:28 »

See edit above

currently with pri bios fail.
« Last Edit: 28-December-11, 03:47:36 by N49ATV »
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #27 on: 28-December-11, 03:45:53 »

Enable Auto Update if not done so yet, otherwise there is a chance of a bricked board. Sometimes the primary is not corrupt enough to trigger the secondary to enable itself. At this point, recommend to use the forum USB Flash Tool & flash the very latest beta with the Auto Update 'Enabled'. For flashing, all settings need to be returned to Auto/Stock/Default. After the flash, it is also recommended to remove the battery & clear CMOS, reset & test. 
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #28 on: 28-December-11, 03:48:19 »

See it in the manual now.
« Last Edit: 28-December-11, 04:14:24 by N49ATV »
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #29 on: 28-December-11, 04:26:45 »

Nm musta had it on when bios went corrupt. Flashing now
« Last Edit: 28-December-11, 05:00:45 by N49ATV »
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #30 on: 28-December-11, 05:13:39 »

Well got primary bios fixed, its flashed to the latest official 23.4, I have everything set as above, I disabled GT overclocking in OS ClickBiosII, and also added the 200W and 250W limiters for primary and secondary turbo planes.

Still only ramps up to 34x, when its set to go to 48x
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Froggy Gremlin

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #31 on: 28-December-11, 05:43:04 »

Try 'Disable' Adjust Ratio In OS. Change C-State Limit to 'No Limit'. If still no go, disable C-States. Disable all the Phase controls & test again.
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #32 on: 28-December-11, 06:14:46 »

Quote
Ill look through. I dont get the option for XMP, but thats fine,
XMP will only be available in the BIOS if the mem modules have a XMP profile. Suspect your's don't, thats why its not available.

If all else fails, you may have to pull the cooler and then take off the CPU for a full inspection of the pins and pin imprints on the CPU. It is not impossible that a pin or two may be bent causing improper pin contact.
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N49ATV

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #33 on: 01-January-12, 02:15:52 »

Well pulled the CPU today. All looked good. Reseated it. New paste, reinstalled cooler. Tried turbo oc, 3.4 only. Tried a 4.2 oc. Double post but entered windows at 4.2 with 1.375 vcore (auto).

 So getting somewhere, or so I thought...
Went up 1 at a time. 46 good, 47 hangs before showing starting windows screen. Blinking underscore second line. Tried 1.4vcore. No go. Went back to auto and 46. Hangs. Down to 44. Hangs. Bathing boys I'll try 43 after.

Same settings as above but turbo off, c state off, c1e off. Nothing changed except multi, and tried 1.4 vcore, then back to auto.

Double posting, no bios lights.

I'm wondering if as I oc the board is changing the voltage to the sata controller too high, thus it won't load off the ssd, but still post? What is stock gpu, I/O, and sa volts?
« Last Edit: 01-January-12, 02:20:30 by N49ATV »
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Froggy Gremlin

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #34 on: 01-January-12, 03:11:14 »

Quote
What is stock gpu, I/O, and sa volts?
Since values can change, best to look it up in the latest releases of the Intel datasheets.
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #35 on: 01-January-12, 06:15:21 »

Well finally found the data sheet for the i5 2500k. SA was .925 (.971 max)
CPU I/O was 1.05
GPU said it was .25-1.52 (std slot blank). I'm not using it anyway.

Setting those smarted the CPU up. I have been in windows at 48. But got a bsod 124. Which is normally considered ram or hdd. So I'm testing ram. And I'm seeing something odd. Using my MSI HQ USB boot stick and running memtest 4.20. It's telling me my bclk is 70 and ram is at 466mhz or ddr3-934. Odd.

*edit*
Googled it, and its been shown its an error in Memtest86+ 4.20

Also loaded defaults again so wife could type up a report for work (last thing I want is a crash and hearing her say she lost an hour of work), and i quickly checked out defaults again, and changed the turbo. And it seems to work now, which is odd. Still crashed, so im back to stock till she is done her typing.
« Last Edit: 01-January-12, 06:39:26 by N49ATV »
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Bernhard

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #36 on: 01-January-12, 06:41:31 »

Quote
But got a bsod 124

This is normally and indications of too little VCore.
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #37 on: 01-January-12, 07:36:31 »

I'll try 4.5 with 1.4v and go from there.

Try and find it sweet spot. Intel says max 1.52 core. But on air even with my nh-d14 temps will become an issu after 1.4 ish.
« Last Edit: 01-January-12, 07:46:21 by N49ATV »
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Bernhard

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #38 on: 01-January-12, 08:17:38 »

1,4 is the max. 1,52 is the absolute, but CPU deterioration or reduced lifetime can be expected if the CPU is used continuously above 1,4V.
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #39 on: 01-January-12, 09:09:29 »

Im not too worried about deteriation, I had my oldschool s478 P4 3.0c @ 4.0 for years. Much longer then I plan to have this CPU. So if it only lasts 5 years instead of 50, ah well. It will prob be replaced in 2 or less.

I backed it down to 4.5, and ran some prime, and IBT. IBT kicked me back an error, and BSOD 1A. Yet im passing Memtest, ill run mem test through the night. See what happens.
« Last Edit: 01-January-12, 09:13:49 by N49ATV »
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Bernhard

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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #40 on: 01-January-12, 09:15:11 »

Test it with 2 mem modules only and see if you still get the IBT error.
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #41 on: 01-January-12, 09:44:49 »

Quote
But got a bsod 124. BSOD 1A.
As Bernhard said, not enough CPU V. Same with 1A. 1.400v's is the recommended everyday maximum. Take in to account it will raise above that under heavy loads usually. It's your stuff, but there is not that much real world performance advantage at or above the 4.4 - 4.8 range. Most of us keep at or below 1.400v's with the max multi it will remain stable at. Also, if it's done all within the Auto setting for CPU V., then all the power saving features are available as well. A win win in most cases.
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Re: Whats everything in the BIOS do?
« Reply #42 on: 01-January-12, 19:03:21 »

Yeah after Xmas today (wife was in hospital) I'll try going back down to 2 ram sticks. VRAM is at 1.65, auto wants to feed 1.775 to it.
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