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Author Topic: ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !  (Read 2324 times)

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jipan1

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ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !
« on: 16-April-12, 10:23:23 »

I have FINALY :-) install successfully  Windows XP SP3 with all updates and with ASMedia USB 3.0 drivers.
There are non "yellow question marks" in device manager.

and the issue after testing in Windows is the same as in Linux - see my  prematurely closed (by Administrator) thread: http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=157923

I have installed SiSoft Sandra 2012 to see USB controllers and devices attached to them.
- ASMedia USB 3.0 controller enabled in BIOS
- connected APACER USB flash disk to its blue 3.0 ports on back

Here is the result:
http://jpnk.wz.cz/ASMedia.png
http://jpnk.wz.cz/USB.png
 

You can see - even in Windows with proper driver is device connected to ports of ASMedia controller shown to be connected to INTEL controller.

And another very suspect aspect:

if I disable the ASMedia controller in BIOS - the controller really disappears from system (e.g. lspci in Linux do not show it further) but devices connected to these blue USB 3.0 ports work as nothing had happen!

That is why I suspect, that these ports are not at all connected to the ASMedia USB 3.0 controller (as should) and the ASMedia is  although on this mobo but is UNUSABLE while is not connected to any ports or brackets.

BTW - another user in my thread had make test with REAL USB 3.0 DEVICE with the same result - device is under Intels USB 2.0 controller and works as only USB 2.0 device.
See: http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=157923.msg1162099#msg1162099




« Last Edit: 16-April-12, 10:33:01 by jipan1 »
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Froggy Gremlin

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Re: ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !
« Reply #1 on: 16-April-12, 11:38:13 »

Quote
if I disable the ASMedia controller in BIOS - the controller really disappears from system (e.g. lspci in Linux do not show it further) but devices connected to these blue USB 3.0 ports work as nothing had happen!

It's supposed to work like that! The ports don't go dead & become unusable just because the USB 3.0 controller is disabled. The mainboard is designed for those ports to still function as USB 2.0 ports. :bonk:
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Jack

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Re: ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !
« Reply #2 on: 16-April-12, 11:48:53 »

I believe I know the exact and logical explanation.  :lol_anim:

I is a pretty simple one, actually. I kind of feel stupid not to come up with earlier:

The following picture is from the Intel Datasheet for the ICH9 chipset regarding USB functionality.  I know your board uses a different chipset, but the general functionality is exactly the same:



What you see here, is the switching logic for a total of 12 USB ports. Behind the ports are actually eight (!) controller interfaces:  6 for UHCI functionality (each controls 6 ports) and 2 EHC interfaces (USB 2.0), each controlling 6 ports.

Depending on the USB device that is plugged in, the ports will be literally switched to the correspondong controller. Now, that is not hard to understand and pretty obvious, when you look at the picture.

------------------

Now, in your case a third USB controller Interface (XHCI) comes into play the ASMedia 1042, which does only particular thing:

It is implemented to support USB 3.0 (XHCI) but not in terms of being a seperate controller, but is actually integrated as an extension to the already present Intel UHCI and EHCI interfaces.  In other words:  It will give two if the USB ports the possibility to not only switch between UHCI and EHCI but will provide them with a third switching option: XHCI (which is the ASMedia 1042 XHC Interface).

Because, when it comes to USB devices and ports, the assignment to UHCI, EHCI or XHCI is only realized via such a switching logic, the system will literally switch the two ports in question here to either Intel UHCI or Intel EHCI when a) no USB 3.0 device is present or b) the ASMedia controller is disabled in UEFI/BIOS Setup.

As the connection between USB Ports and corresponding controller is NEVER a one way hardwired matter, but one that is based on switches, one and the same USB port can be physically assigned to either the Intel or the ASMedia controller, depending on the connected device.

-------------------

Now, as you can see, this explanation actually explains ALL the symptoms you mentioned.

According to the Intel Information regarding the chipset used on your board:

http://ark.intel.com/products/52806/Intel-BD82H61-PCH

... the chipset actually provided support for precisely 10 USB ports, which means that from the Intel side, there will be 5 UCH interfaces able to control 2 ports each and another two EHC Interfaces designed to control 5 ports each.

However, the board has only 10 USB Ports altogether, not 10+2 as one could expect (10xIntel + 2xASMedia).  So the only logical explanation here, is that, and I already said that, two of these ports have a third switching option for XHCI (ASMedia) operation.

--------------------------------
--------------------------------

Now that we have explained ALL the things you keep pointing out as normal and logical system behaviour, all you need to do is plug in an USB 3.0 device.  The port will then automatically be switched not to Intel UHCI nor to Intel EHCI but correctly and logically to ASMedia XHCI.  
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Jack

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Re: ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !
« Reply #3 on: 16-April-12, 12:06:53 »

Quote
another user in my thread had make test with REAL USB 3.0 DEVICE with the same result - device is under Intels USB 2.0 controller and works as only USB 2.0 device.
See: http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=157923.msg1162099#msg1162099

He is using an USB 3.0 hard drive which appeares under this entry:


Quote
Bus 002 Device 005: ID 174c:5106 ASMedia Technology Inc.
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.10
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x174c ASMedia Technology Inc.
  idProduct          0x5106
  bcdDevice            0.01
  iManufacturer           2 ASMedia
  iProduct                3 AS2105
  iSerial                 1             5WS07G34
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength           32
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                0mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass         8 Mass Storage
      bInterfaceSubClass      6 SCSI
      bInterfaceProtocol     80 Bulk (Zip)
      iInterface              0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x02  EP 2 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               0
Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
  bLength                10
  bDescriptorType         6
  bcdUSB               2.10
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  bNumConfigurations      1
Device Status:     0x0001
  Self Powered
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Jack

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Re: ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !
« Reply #4 on: 16-April-12, 12:15:49 »

Quote
# lsusb -t
/:  Bus 04.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/2p, 5000M
/:  Bus 03.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/2p, 480M
/:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci_hcd/2p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=hub, Driver=hub/6p, 480M
        |__ Port 5: Dev 5, If 0, Class=stor., Driver=usb-storage, 480M
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci_hcd/2p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
        |__ Port 3: Dev 5, If 0, Class=HID, Driver=usbhid, 1.5M
        |__ Port 3: Dev 5, If 1, Class=HID, Driver=usbhid, 1.5M
        |__ Port 4: Dev 6, If 0, Class=HID, Driver=usbhid, 1.5M

Bus 02, Dev 5 is ASMedia:

Quote
# lsusb
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 005: ID 174c:5106 ASMedia Technology Inc.
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 006: ID 046d:c025 Logitech, Inc. MX500 Optical Mouse
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 1e54:2030 TypeMatrix 2030 USB Keyboard
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

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jipan1

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Re: ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !
« Reply #5 on: 16-April-12, 13:18:33 »

I have to apologize to you, Jack! That's a really one useful answer.  Thanks.

That is similar to what I speculated on
http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=157923.msg1162726#msg1162726
Quote
Could be possible, that the mobo is so clever to (if ASMedia controller is disabled) physically switch these blue back ports to the other (Intel)  USB controller ? To reach these ports remain usable / not dead ?

So it could be the right explanation.

Only 2 questions left:

1. why ACids real USB 3.0 disk was not routed to ASMedia XHCI controller to works like real USB 3.0 device ?
2. it would be perfect to test this theory in Windows with proper driver on such USB 3.0 device. Unfortunately I have not such one :-(

But I'm sure not the only one with this mobo -  hopefully will someone test and replay here.

P.S.: the lsusb listing are still a little confusing for me: why is
Port 5: Dev 5, If 0, Class=stor., Driver=usb-storage, 480M on Bus 02
(if it is really the ASMedia and Disk in one (?)) shown connected to
Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=hub, Driver=hub/6p, 480M on Bus 02
which is sure the Intel HUB  ?

Maybe (how Jack wrote) is the Intel controller not just simply USB HUB but port "switcher" too - and to this switcher could be seen ASMedia as really connected. If the theory is right :-)



« Last Edit: 16-April-12, 13:23:12 by jipan1 »
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Jack

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Re: ASMedia USB 3.0 on H61MA-E35 (B3) issues !
« Reply #6 on: 16-April-12, 13:24:55 »

Quote
Only 2 questions left:

1. why ACids real USB 3.0 disk was not routed to ASMedia XHCI controller to works like real USB 3.0 device ?

http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=157923.msg1162205#msg1162205

Quote
You need to understand that it's Linux itself that supports devices IF the manufacturer from such a device writes a drive or discloses the device information to the Linux programmers.

Not a single board manufacturer writes device drivers for Windows, only chip manufacturers do.

So if Linux lacks the drivers it will never work at full speed.

After all, only proper driver integration on the operating system level can ensure that this whole switching game works correctly. Linux certainly has its merrits compared to Windows, there is no point in doubting that.  However, proper driver support especially for the latest components is and probably always will be Linux' "Achilles' heel", there is no point in denying that either.

Quote
That is similar to what I speculated on

Yes, that is why I said:

Quote
I is a pretty simple one, actually. I kind of feel stupid not to come up with earlier:

----------

Quote
Maybe (how Jack wrote) is the Intel controller not just simply USB HUB but "switcher" too - and to this switcher is could be ASMedia really connected. If the theory is right :-)

Something like that, yes.

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