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Author Topic: G41M-P26 shutting down, hanging w/ DDR3-1600 RAM. Not compatible?  (Read 24890 times)

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itorres008Topic starter

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Hello,

I am having problems with this board shutting down or hanging after some time, then refusing to post, sometime later it will POST and allow getting to setup, then it may shut down suddenly.  Sometimes it may boot and go through Memtest for acouple of passes OK, but later shutdown.

I have had the system for a couple of years, but was barely used.  MOBO, CPU and RAM bought from local Tiger Direct as wel matched for working together.  I don't see what may have caused problems to start.  From what I've tested and read lately, I suspect the problem is that the RAM is not really appropriate for the board since it is High Density.  Corsair support has told me that.  I've read articles that say this High Density RAM is designed for i3, i5, i7 (Sandy Bridge Family) and will most likely not work with this MOBO/CPU combination.  Also, reading these forums I've gathered only two 1333 DIMMs have been tested as working on this MOBO and others may not.  The best bet is using 800 or 1066 RAM.

Does this sound reasonable?

For completeness, this some of what I've done these past days:
- try MOBO, CPU, RAM only.  Problems are the same.
- try Fail Safe defaults, optimized defaults, load SPD values of RAM, manual setting of timings for 1333. Sometimes it has POSTed and I connect CD to boot  to Memtest.  Could run for couple of hours without errors or fail in minutes.
- tried 2 PSUs and a bought a new one, problem remains.
- try DIMM on slot 2.   
- monitored CPU heat and is within limits.  Anyway, sometimes wil not POST with CPU and RAM cold. 

When it shuts down it may not turn back on at all immediately, and needs CMOS clear or sometimes taking battery out since clear CMOS doesn't work.  I've gotten a couple of "Overclocking failed", but I haven't changed the default 200 MHz BCLK frequency.

I'm in the process of looking among friends for 800 or 1066 RAM to test , my local provider Tiger Direct (and probably everybody else) doesn't carry it anymore.  Looking also for a MOBO with (Sandy Bridge CPU) where to test my 1333 RAM.

In the meantime, I could try updating the BIOS, since it is a few versions behind on what was available on Nov 2011.  I see some updates address memory compatibility issues.  I have to see if I have the working Floppy or USB Flash Drive to do it and recover the BIOS if the machine shuts off as I'm doing the BIOS update (which would be a bit scary).

Should I update the BIOS, anyway?

Well, thanks for any feedback and suggestions.

Iván

Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.8 2011-08-26??
VGA:   Integrated
PSU:   Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: E5700 Intel Dual Core 3 GHz LGA 775, Max TDP-65 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B)
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

badboy2k

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DDR3 Memory    DDR3 800/1066/1333*(OC)

that is what the board supports and 1333 is only if overclocked on the CPU to give it more frequancy and voltage!

1600Mhz is impossible as its outside the specs the board can use and even 1333MHz is a long shot as that depends on the hardware and the silicon lottery of the components which is why its classed as OC!

that board is not men't to be used how you are trying to so its not reasonable! if you want 1066 RAM you should be able to get some from Amazon as they tend to have suppliers with stock of it still!
Logged
OS: Windows7 professional SP1 64bit (OEM)
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70 (bios 1.17) AM3
Processor:AMD phenom IIx4 955 black edition 3.2GHz processor(Clock speed of 4GHz)
Cooler: corsair H100 cooler
Ram: 16GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600MHz ram (2 dual channel kits model: CMP8GX3M2A1600C9) (underclocked at 1333MHz)
GPU: 1: MSI R7870 -2GD5T/OC @ 1155mhz , 2: MSI R7850-Twin Frozer 2GD5/OC @ 925mhz
PSU: Thermaltake tougthpower 1500W (+12v1 20A, +12v2 20A, +12v3 40A, +12v4 40A) (+12v1=20+4 connector, +12v2=CPU power, +12v3=PCI_E connections, +12v4 = molex+sata+PCI_E connectors  )
Extras: 1 x 4 port raid card (model SIL3114) ASUS Xonar Essence STX sound card PCI-E X1.

itorres008Topic starter

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DDR3 Memory    DDR3 800/1066/1333*(OC)

that is what the board supports
I know, but I was told the RAM would run at a slower speed  to be within the speed the system supports.  It seemed reasonable since older generation RAM would run slower if needed, but it would run.  This down shifting doesn't happen with DDR3?

Quote
and 1333 is only if overclocked on the CPU to give it more frequancy and voltage!
1600Mhz is impossible as its outside the specs the board can use and even 1333MHz is a long shot as that depends on the hardware and the silicon lottery of the components which is why its classed as OC!
Sure, I'm not trying to run at 1600, I would be happy if it runs even at 800.

If I were to try to raise the RAM Freq to1333 (to try the long shot) I would have to raise the Base Freq from 200 to 333 MHz, but doing that would raise the CPU freguency from 3.0 GHz to 5 GHz since it has a 15 ratio!  I see some boards allow to reduce the CPU freq ratio in order to keep the CPU freq at a workable level as one increases the RAM frequency.   However, the option is greyed out in the BIOS setup.  Is this because the E5700 CPU doesn't support changing the ratio or what?

Also, in the overclocking process, I see other motherboards allow to RAISE the RAM/FSB freq ratio in order to raise the RAM freq overall, but this board only allows LOWERING the ratio. Available settings are 2:1 (which is the default on Auto), 1.6:1, another one and ends with 1.2:1.  Do you know why the ratio can only be lowered? 

How can overclocking RAM freq to 1333 be achieved on this MOBO, even if it's a longshot?

Thanks for the help.

PS: I updated BIOS to latest, 26.11.  Now Memtest identifies the RAM as DDR3, while it reported it as DDR2 before, but after a few minutes running the test the machine resets/hangs.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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Board: MSI G41M-P26
CPU: E5700 Intel Dual Core 3 GHz LGA 775, Max TDP-65 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B)

Also, in the overclocking process, I see other motherboards allow to RAISE the RAM/FSB freq ratio in order to raise the RAM freq overall, but this board only allows LOWERING the ratio. Available settings are 2:1 (which is the default on Auto), 1.6:1, another one and ends with 1.2:1.  Do you know why the ratio can only be lowered? 

How can overclocking RAM freq to 1333 be achieved on this MOBO, even if it's a longshot?

There are several problems here:
1) your motherboard can boot up properly with DDR3-1066 7-7-7-20 at 1.5V
2) your memory modules default to 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V (with XMP disabled)
3) you cannot use DDR3-1333 with a FSB 800 processor.
To have a chance with DDR3-1333, you need a FSB 1333 (333MHz quad pumped) processor.
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=CPUSupport

To conclude: your CPU/RAM/mobo combination won't work properly no matter what you do.

p.s.
Your (cheap) motherboard is limited to a 2:1 DRAM ratio.
So:
With FSB 800 CPU you can use DDR3-800 (you won't find any :grin: )
With FSB 1066 CPU you can use DDR3-1066
With FSB 1333 CPU you can use DDR3-1333
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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There are several problems here:
1) your motherboard can boot up properly with DDR3-1066 7-7-7-20 at 1.5V
2) your memory modules default to 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V (with XMP disabled)
3) you cannot use DDR3-1333 with a FSB 800 processor.
To have a chance with DDR3-1333, you need a FSB 1333 (333MHz quad pumped) processor.
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=CPUSupport

To conclude: your CPU/RAM/mobo combination won't work properly no matter what you do.
Thanks, RemusM.

Ok, the processor would need to have a 333 FSB to run RAM at 1333.  If I got one, would it likely/maybe/unlikely work?

I gather, then, getting the DDR3-1066 RAM would make this work.  I've read high-density modules, even though they're more affordable, may have compatibility issues with MOBOs.  Is there a way to know if this board handles high-density DIMMs or is it trial and error?

Thanks for the help.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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Thanks, RemusM.

Ok, the processor would need to have a 333 FSB to run RAM at 1333.  If I got one, would it likely/maybe/unlikely work?

With a 333x4 FSB processor you have big chances to run DDR3-1333 on this motherboard.
However ...
With G41 chipset you won't be able to run 2 x 4GB DDR3-1333
You are limited to 2 x 4GB DDR3-1066 or 2 x 2GB DDR3-1333
The 4GB DDR3-1333 module should work properly if you raise the voltage around 1.6V
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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With a 333x4 FSB processor you have big chances to run DDR3-1333 on this motherboard.
However ...
With G41 chipset you won't be able to run 2 x 4GB DDR3-1333
You are limited to 2 x 4GB DDR3-1066 or 2 x 2GB DDR3-1333
The 4GB DDR3-1333 module should work properly if you raise the voltage around 1.6V
Thanks for the answer.  Those configuration limitations using 1333 is something the majority of end-users and maybe even IT Pros would not know.

So, my best option is just to get 1066. My other question remains about high density RAM support.
Can we know if this board will support high-density memory?
Should I look exclusively for low-density?
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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So, my best option is just to get 1066. My other question remains about high density RAM support.
Can we know if this board will support high-density memory?
Should I look exclusively for low-density?

Yes, the 4GB high-density modules are supported.
But DDR3-1066 only.
8GB DDR3-1333 on this motherboard is a russian roulette. ;D
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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Yes, the 4GB high-density modules are supported.
But DDR3-1066 only.
8GB DDR3-1333 on this motherboard is a russian roulette. ;D
Thanks fo the info.

I've read that low-density chips are almost 100 compatible with all systems but that high-density chips are compatible maybe with 10%.  That's very important, but I don't see system specs specifying if they support high-density in clear words or RAM specs specifying in clear language if they are low or high density.  At this point I see one should look for 128x4 (high) or 64x8 (low) and other hints on RAM, but why not say high/low density?  Are they hoping to increase sales when people buy RAM and then if they can't use it they don't return it?

As I researched this problem I'm having and the possibility that it was a high/low density problem, I see the Vengeance RAM I have described as:
- "designed specifically for the latest CPUs." - Fine, but it doesn't warn it may not be compatible with older systems
- "Vengeance modules run at 1.5V for maximum compatibility with all Intel® Core™ i3, i5 and i7 processors, as well as the 2nd generation Intel processor family." or "Sandy Bridge" - are consumer expected to know what 2nd generation Intel processor family is?
- "These extra-dense memory chips allow you to have 8GB of memory using only two DIMMs" - extra-dense seems great!  except for that it may not work with your  system

On some listings at least they specify "server" memory and "desktop" memory, especially on eBay where getting things wrong is a nuisance.  However, when people buy a motherboard they may use it to build a system with a server or desktop role.  So the server/desktop designation is not that clear either.

For future reference, how would one know from the specs of the G41M-P26, not being for Sandy Bridge CPUs, that it supports high-density RAM?

Well, thanks for the help, Remus.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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For future reference, how would one know from the specs of the G41M-P26, not being for Sandy Bridge CPUs, that it supports high-density RAM?

As general rule, all the 2GB modules run on the older motherboards.
The 4GB modules are problematic.
For example, these modules run just fine on MSI G41M-P33 (with a FSB 333x4 processor):
http://www.corsair.com/cmx8gx3m2a1333c9.html
http://www.corsair.com/dominator-with-dhx-pro-connector-8gb-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmp8gx3m4a1333c9.html
They are both native DDR3-1333, 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V
But they run perfect at 1066MHz, 7-7-7-20 at 1.5V
If you can, you should give them a try on G41M-P26
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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As general rule, all the 2GB modules run on the older motherboards.
The 4GB modules are problematic.
For example, these modules run just fine on MSI G41M-P33 (with a FSB 333x4 processor):
http://www.corsair.com/cmx8gx3m2a1333c9.html
http://www.corsair.com/dominator-with-dhx-pro-connector-8gb-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmp8gx3m4a1333c9.html
They are both native DDR3-1333, 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V
But they run perfect at 1066MHz, 7-7-7-20 at 1.5V
If you can, you should give them a try on G41M-P26
Ok. I wanted to know if there is something in the motherboard's description or specification that would confirm it can handle high-density.  There would probably be some combination of module size, memory architecture (channels, addressing limits) that would tell us. 

Anyway, from the example of these DIMMs you mention, I see some 1333 9-9-9-24 memory (which is what I have now) could run at 1066, but like in my case, not run all the way down at 800. 

So,I can improve the CPU or get 1066 RAM.   Although, now I have new doubts, which could be frustrating after this much talking about it.  :undecided: You previously said,
Quote
1) your motherboard can boot up properly with DDR3-1066 7-7-7-20 at 1.5V
I don't know if you're thinking, but didn't write "with a CPU that runs a 1066 FSB".  I have a CPU running 800 FSB.

Can I get 1066 RAM and it will down clock to run at 800 or do I need to get DDR3-800 exactly, given my CPU running 800 FSB?

Thanks.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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So,I can improve the CPU or get 1066 RAM.   Although, now I have new doubts, which could be frustrating after this much talking about it.  :undecided:
You previously said,I don't know if you're thinking, but didn't write "with a CPU that runs a 1066 FSB".  I have a CPU running 800 FSB.

You need a FSB 266x4 processor to use DDR3-1066.
And that's because your DRAM ratio is limited to 2:1
With your current processor, theoretically speaking, your only chance to run DDR3-1066 is to raise the FSB from 200 to 266.
That 33% overcloking is a very bad idea and with the stock cooler it's impossible anyway.
So first of all, you need a FSB 333x4 processor.
With that processor you'll be able to run any 4GB DDR3-1066 memory module (1.6:1 DRAM ratio)
Also, you have big chances to run some of the 4GB DDR3-1333 memory modules (2:1 DRAM ratio)

For example Corsair XMS3 CMX8GX3M2A1333C9.
If your motherboard is not able to run them at 1333MHz, they run perfect at 1066MHz.



 :beerchug:


Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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Thanks for your patience, Remus.

Well, before this forum exchange here, I would ask..."does this RAM work with this MOBO?" and someone could tell me "Yes".  Now I've learned the answer should have been "Yes, with X FSB or CPU" or "Yes, but not with the CPU you have."

Then my problem is too slow a CPU at FSB 800 and too fast or incompatible RAM, DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24.  I’ve read articles, specs for all parts, chipset specs, part prices and thought about it.

So, if I can buy only one component, RAM or CPU. My four options are:
1. Get DDR3-800 RAM (most expensive due to scarcity, 4GB $77, but almost guaranteed it will work)

2. Get DDR3-1066 RAM (most affordable at 4GB $25-35)
But will DDR3-1066 run with the FSB at 800 by changing the RAM timings manually? (similar to how you say the 1333 can run at 1066)

3. Get a 333 FSB CPU ($20-30 Affordable and fastest, but there are doubts it would work.)
The description for the RAM I have specifies:
"Requirements - Designed for use with all DDR3 motherboards with four memory channels".
This board (or the G41 chipset) supports dual channel memory, and the Corsair XMS3 RAM you mention is "Designed for use with all DDR3 motherboards with two memory channels" which might explain why it works well and mine may not. 
Does this 4 channel design disqualify my RAM for use on this board even at 1333 with 333 FSB CPU?

The board specs say that running 1333 RAM is overclocked, but wouldn't a 333 CPU/system FSB result in a 1333 RAM speed (4x FSB), why would it have to be Overclocked?
(Perhaps because the RAM speed ratio supported by the MOBO at 333 Clock is not 2:1, but limited to 1.6:1 since the chipset supports only 1066 RAM speed, thus needing the overclocking)  If I needed to overclock I wouldn’t take this option, since I’d need better cooling, etc. I rather get 1066 RAM and keep this 1333 RAM for some future system.

4. If #2 and #3 wouldn’t work, it would be cheaper than #1 to buy a 333 FSB CPU and 4GB DDR3-1066 (run at 1.6:1 DRAM ratio).

I think I’ve got the picture complete, except for those three questions in bold.

Thanks, again. Remus.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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So, if I can buy only one component, RAM or CPU. My four options are:
1. Get DDR3-800 RAM (most expensive due to scarcity, 4GB $77, but almost guaranteed it will work)

2. Get DDR3-1066 RAM (most affordable at 4GB $25-35)
But will DDR3-1066 run with the FSB at 800 by changing the RAM timings manually? (similar to how you say the 1333 can run at 1066)

3. Get a 333 FSB CPU ($20-30 Affordable and fastest, but there are doubts it would work.)
Does this 4 channel design disqualify my RAM for use on this board even at 1333 with 333 FSB CPU?

The board specs say that running 1333 RAM is overclocked, but wouldn't a 333 CPU/system FSB result in a 1333 RAM speed (4x FSB), why would it have to be Overclocked?
(Perhaps because the RAM speed ratio supported by the MOBO at 333 Clock is not 2:1, but limited to 1.6:1 since the chipset supports only 1066 RAM speed, thus needing the overclocking)  If I needed to overclock I wouldn’t take this option, since I’d need better cooling, etc. I rather get 1066 RAM and keep this 1333 RAM for some future system.

4. If #2 and #3 wouldn’t work, it would be cheaper than #1 to buy a 333 FSB CPU and 4GB DDR3-1066 (run at 1.6:1 DRAM ratio).

1. DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18) is faster than DDR3-800 (6-6-6-18). In my opinion, this is your last option.

2. They will run at 800MHz because your FSB is 200x4 MHz and your max. DRAM ratio is 2:1

3. A processor with 333x4 MHz FSB is your best option.
See the supported CPUs here: http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=CPUSupport
Core 2 Quad Q8xxx, Q9xxx
Core 2 Duo E8xxx
And forget about that 4x2GB kit. A few years ago they had a 2x4GB Dominator at 1333MHz. Not anymore ...
Just get the Corsair XMS3 CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 kit.
It has been tested on MSI G41M-P33 and I bet it's working fine on G41M-P26

4. That's the "safest" option


The G41 chipset has been designed for socket 775 and DDR2-800.
DDR3 is a workaround on this chipset.
For this reason all these troubles and incompatibilities ...
Anyway, the most popular G41 config is G41M-P33 Combo:
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P33-Combo.html
Many people want to keep their socket 775 processors and DDR2 modules and this mobo is a very good option.
On the top of that, DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18) is as fast as DDR3-1066 (7-7-7-20).
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

Anatta

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@ itorres008

I have MSI G41M-P33 with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 and the DDR3 Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 kit works on this MB @ 800MHz, 1066MHz and 1333MHz.

The minimum FSB of the Q6600 is 266MHz.

For the modules to work @ 800 MHz I let the FSB @ 266 MHz with a 1:1.5 FSB/DRAM ratio.
For the modules to work @ 1066 MHz I let the FSB @ 266 MHz with a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio.
For the modules to work @ 1333 MHZ I raise the FSB to 333 MHz with a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio.

I think these Corsair modules will work @ 800 MHz with your CPUs 200MHz FSB and a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio. If you want to run them @ 1066MHz or 1333MHz you will have to raise the FSB on the CPU.

If you run them @ 800 MHz just make sure to set lower timings in the BIOS because if you let the AUTO setting the MB will keep them @ 8-8-8-20 which is the same for when you run them  @ 1333MHz.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=176120.msg1279102#msg1279102

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RemusM

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I have MSI G41M-P33 with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 and the DDR3 Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 kit works on this MB @ 800MHz, 1066MHz and 1333MHz.

The minimum FSB of the Q6600 is 266MHz.

For the modules to work @ 800 MHz I let the FSB @ 266 MHz with a 1:1.5 FSB/DRAM ratio.
For the modules to work @ 1066 MHz I let the FSB @ 266 MHz with a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio.
For the modules to work @ 1333 MHZ I raise the FSB to 333 MHz with a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio.

I think these Corsair modules will work @ 800 MHz with your CPUs 200MHz FSB and a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio. If you want to run them @ 1066MHz or 1333MHz you will have to raise the FSB on the CPU.

If you run them @ 800 MHz just make sure to set lower timings in the BIOS because if you let the AUTO setting the MB will keep them @ 8-8-8-20 which is the same for when you run them  @ 1333MHz.

Yes, as I said before, those modules run just fine on G41M-P33.
But with your processor (FSB 1066), they run at 1066MHz.
With his processor (FSB 800) they might run at 800MHz.
I said "might" because these modules have not been design to run below 1066MHz (see the above SPD screenshot).
Also, the timings for DDR3-800 are 6-6-6-18.

On the other hand, 333x4 MHz for your Q6600 processor is way too much (25% overclocking).
So your chances to run DDR3-1333 are not so great

In any case, you have different motherboard, CPU and memory modules.
 :beerchug:


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Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
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OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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1. DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18) is faster than DDR3-800 (6-6-6-18). In my opinion, this is your last option.
Interesting, tidbit, but my board can't use DDR2.  Yeah, this is the worst option. I wrote "it's the most expensive", which to me in this case means the worst option, but I didn't actually write "worst".  For less than the 4GB DDR3-800 costs I can get 4GB DDR3-1066 and a 333 FSB CPU!
Quote
2. They will run at 800MHz because your FSB is 200x4 MHz and your max. DRAM ratio is 2:1
Sure.  I ask because I can buy a DDR3-800 for $78, but I can buy the DDR3-1066 for $30 and run the same speed.  Maybe I can even use the 1066 in some other system in the future.  I sometimes get parts from systems other people discard and keep building and improving machines for misc uses.
Quote
3. A processor with 333x4 MHz FSB is your best option.
See the supported CPUs here: http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=CPUSupport
Core 2 Quad Q8xxx, Q9xxx
Core 2 Duo E8xxx
Yes, best option given it's cheaper to get the CPU than a slower RAM. But I didn't get the answer about if I can use the current RAM I have now, given it's description says "Designed for use with all DDR3 motherboards with four memory channels".  Will the 1333 RAM I already have, run on this board with a 333 FSB CPU and setting timings manually for it to run at 1066?
If it does, then I only buy the CPU.
Quote
And forget about that 4x2GB kit. A few years ago they had a 2x4GB Dominator at 1333MHz. Not anymore ...
Just get the Corsair XMS3 CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 kit.
It has been tested on MSI G41M-P33 and I bet it's working fine on G41M-P26
Why do you recommend this RAM when I already have a 4 GB DIMM of DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 like it?
The only difference may be the line about mine being designed for motherboards with four channel memory.  I would like to know why my RAM wouldn't work if I buy the 333 FSB CPU.  :confused2:
Quote
The G41 chipset has been designed for socket 775 and DDR2-800.
DDR3 is a workaround on this chipset.
For this reason all these troubles and incompatibilities ...
Oh, Ok.
Quote
Anyway, the most popular G41 config is G41M-P33 Combo:
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P33-Combo.html
Many people want to keep their socket 775 processors and DDR2 modules and this mobo is a very good option.
On the top of that, DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18) is as fast as DDR3-1066 (7-7-7-20).
I see it's popular, but when I bought these parts it's what they had on hand at the local CompUSA/TigerDirect store.  Which, supposedly worked together. :nooo:

It may seem I'm being too thorough with this, and I appreciate you guy's patience.  It's that I'm thinking and looking to in the future buy parts, to use with the parts left over from this combo, to build a slightly better 2nd desktop.  So, my ideal choice is to get a 333 FSB CPU and have it work with my current RAM (pending answer of questions above).  :)  If I can't do that because my RAM won't work, I might get just some DDR3-1066 RAM and run it at 800 with this CPU.  Then the money I would have used for the 333 FSB CPU can go to building a Sandy Bridge system with a new MOBO, maybe some i5 or i7 CPU and the 1333 RAM I already have.   Getting the most out of little money by planning, see?  :-))

Thanks for the help, all!
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Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
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RemusM

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Yes, best option given it's cheaper to get the CPU than a slower RAM.
But I didn't get the answer about if I can use the current RAM I have now, given it's description says "Designed for use with all DDR3 motherboards with four memory channels".
Will the 1333 RAM I already have, run on this board with a 333 FSB CPU and setting timings manually for it to run at 1066?
If it does, then I only buy the CPU.
Why do you recommend this RAM when I already have a 4 GB DIMM of DDR3-1333 9-9-9-24 like it?

Here is the recommended memory:


Here is your current memory:


The 1st one runs perfect at 1333 (9-9-9-24) and 1066 (7-7-7-20)
The 2nd one runs perfect at 1333 and 1600 (both with 9-9-9-24).
The 2nd one is not an option for your current processor (FSB 800).
But with FSB 1333 processor you have big chances to run them stable at 1333MHz.
 :beerchug:
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OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

Anatta

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Yes, as I said before, those modules run just fine on G41M-P33.
But with your processor (FSB 1066), they run at 1066MHz.
With his processor (FSB 800) they might run at 800MHz.
I said "might" because these modules have not been design to run below 1066MHz (see the above SPD screenshot).
Also, the timings for DDR3-800 are 6-6-6-18.

On the other hand, 333x4 MHz for your Q6600 processor is way too much (25% overclocking).
So your chances to run DDR3-1333 are not so great

In any case, you have different motherboard, CPU and memory modules.
 :beerchug:

I may be lucky, but I use my Q6600 overclocked to 333MHz without any issues and the Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 modules run @ 1333MHz (the link is with my actual config). They also work downclocked to 800MHz (the posted pic is with these modules @ 800 MHz, I made the changes in BIOS as I was curios to see if they work at this frequency) if the FSB is not high enough as it's the case for the OP.
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RemusM

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I may be lucky, but I use my Q6600 overclocked to 333MHz without any issues and the Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 modules run @ 1333MHz (the link is with my actual config). They also work downclocked to 800MHz (the posted pic is with these modules @ 800 MHz, I made the changes in BIOS as I was curios to see if they work at this frequency) if the FSB is not high enough as it's the case for the OP.

You are lucky, that's for sure.
Intel Q6600 has been designed to run with FSB 1066.
Many people bricked their CPUs because they ran them at 333 instead of 266 MHz.
Overclocking is a faulty activity anyway.
 :grin:
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Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
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OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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@ itorres008

I have MSI G41M-P33 with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 and the DDR3 Corsair CMX8GX3M2A1333C9 kit works on this MB @ 800MHz, 1066MHz and 1333MHz.

The minimum FSB of the Q6600 is 266MHz.

For the modules to work @ 800 MHz I let the FSB @ 266 MHz with a 1:1.5 FSB/DRAM ratio.
For the modules to work @ 1066 MHz I let the FSB @ 266 MHz with a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio.
For the modules to work @ 1333 MHZ I raise the FSB to 333 MHz with a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio.

I think these Corsair modules will work @ 800 MHz with your CPUs 200MHz FSB and a 1:2 FSB/DRAM ratio. If you want to run them @ 1066MHz or 1333MHz you will have to raise the FSB on the CPU.

If you run them @ 800 MHz just make sure to set lower timings in the BIOS because if you let the AUTO setting the MB will keep them @ 8-8-8-20 which is the same for when you run them  @ 1333MHz.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=176120.msg1279102#msg1279102


Thanks for the info, Anatta.   
This RAM is an option.   I will keep it in mind if they fit in the choice solution I follow, meaning  buying RAM instead of a CPU. (and availability and price)
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CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
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OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

itorres008Topic starter

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The 1st one runs perfect at 1333 (9-9-9-24) and 1066 (7-7-7-20)
The 2nd one runs perfect at 1333 and 1600 (both with 9-9-9-24).
The 2nd one is not an option for your current processor (FSB 800).
But with FSB 1333 processor you have big chances to run them stable at 1333MHz.
Yes, Remus, my first option would be just getting a 1333 FSB CPU for my RAM.  However, you say
The 2nd one (that I have) runs perfect at 1333 and 1600 (both with 9-9-9-24). but then under that you say "with FSB 1333 processor you have big chances to run them stable at 1333MHz".
So,1. with 1333 FSB CPU runs perfectly or have big chances?
2. Why do the MOBO specs say running 1333 RAM is Over-clocking, wouldn't the 333 FSB result in a 1333 RAM speed or will the MOBO limit RAM speed at 1066, the G41 Chipset default limit?

If it's not "runs perfectly" I would not risk buying the 1333 FSB CPU for my RAM no to work with it.  I would keep current FSB 800 CPU and buy DDR3-1066 RAM to down-clock and run at 800. 
Why run 1066 RAM at 800?  Because 800 RAM is 2.5x more expensive than 1066 due to scarcity and I would buy 1066 RAM. 
Why not run 1066 RAM at 1066, because I believe I need to overclock and that needs buying additional cooling solution. 3. Right?

Another unanswered one: 
4. How does it matter that my RAM is designed for motherboards with four memory channels, should it run with this G41M-P26?

Thanks.
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MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
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RemusM

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Yes, Remus, my first option would be just getting a 1333 FSB CPU for my RAM.  However, you say
The 2nd one (that I have) runs perfect at 1333 and 1600 (both with 9-9-9-24). but then under that you say "with FSB 1333 processor you have big chances to run them stable at 1333MHz".
So,1. with 1333 FSB CPU runs perfectly or have big chances?
2. Why do the MOBO specs say running 1333 RAM is Over-clocking, wouldn't the 333 FSB result in a 1333 RAM speed or will the MOBO limit RAM speed at 1066, the G41 Chipset default limit?

If it's not "runs perfectly" I would not risk buying the 1333 FSB CPU for my RAM no to work with it.  I would keep current FSB 800 CPU and buy DDR3-1066 RAM to down-clock and run at 800. 
Why run 1066 RAM at 800?  Because 800 RAM is 2.5x more expensive than 1066 due to scarcity and I would buy 1066 RAM.

Why not run 1066 RAM at 1066, because I believe I need to overclock and that needs buying additional cooling solution. 3. Right?

Another unanswered one: 
4. How does it matter that my RAM is designed for motherboards with four memory channels, should it run with this G41M-P26?

1. & 2.
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=Detail
Supports two unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 800/1066/1333* (OC) DRAM, 8GB Max
MSI is telling you that with DDR3-1333 you need to "gamble".
But with a FSB 1333 processor you have big chances to win.
 :grin:

3. Right!

4. Your current memory is a single 4GB memory module.
http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance-16gb-single-module-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz4gx3m1a1600c9.html
The recommended memory is 2 x 4GB memory kit.
http://www.corsair.com/cmx8gx3m2a1333c9.html
I thought you want to run 8GB memory on your mobo ...
 :beerchug:
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OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

Anatta

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itorres008, keep in mind that it may not be a CPU issue for why your Corsair CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B doesn't work. The module may simply not be compatible with the G41M-P26 MB.

Before I put my current Corsair modules on the G41M-P33, I tried the Kingston HyperX khx16c9b1rk2/8x kit which would default to 1333MHz when installed (they go to 1600 MHz with XMP enabled) and even with the FSB raised to 333MHz they didn't work, the PC would beep a few times and kept restarting.

Even if you buy a CPU with 333MHz FSB, your Corsair CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B may still not work.
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itorres008Topic starter

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1. & 2.
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=Detail
Supports two unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 800/1066/1333* (OC) DRAM, 8GB Max
MSI is telling you that with DDR3-1333 you need to "gamble".
But with a FSB 1333 processor you have big chances to win.
5. But with a 1333 FSB CPU will RAM speed be:
a) automatically set to 667MHz/1333 MT
b) automatically set to 533MHz/1066 MT, because G41 Chipset supports 533/1066 max RAM speed and you need to overclock by 25% to reach 1333 RAM
c) automatically set to 533MHz/1066 MT, because G41 Chipset supports 533/1066 max RAM speed and you can run my RAM at 1066 with manual timings   
d)  both b and c

Quote
4. Your current memory is a single 4GB memory module.
http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance-16gb-single-module-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz4gx3m1a1600c9.html
I know.  I'm referring to that this one says "designed for motherboards with four memory channels"  while this following one "1333c9" says "Designed for use with all DDR3 motherboards with two memory channels".  So the question is,
Does Memory designed for four memory channels:
a) work on two memory channel motherboards as well as four channel motherboards (will work on mine) or
b) work only on four channel boards (will not work on mine)?

Quote
The recommended memory is 2 x 4GB memory kit.
http://www.corsair.com/cmx8gx3m2a1333c9.html
I understand, but they both run 9-9-9-24 1333, except mine could run faster, which I don't need.
Quote
I thought you want to run 8GB memory on your mobo ...
I'm happy with the 4GB I have.  My biggest goal now is running my same 4 GB RAM with a 333 FSB CPU at any RAM speed that doesn't require overclocking and buying additional cooling equipment.  If I can't have that, I'll buy 1066 RAM and use the 800 CPU.
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MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
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RemusM

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5. But with a 1333 FSB CPU will RAM speed be:
a) automatically set to 667MHz/1333 MT
b) automatically set to 533MHz/1066 MT, because G41 Chipset supports 533/1066 max RAM speed and you need to overclock by 25% to reach 1333 RAM
c) automatically set to 533MHz/1066 MT, because G41 Chipset supports 533/1066 max RAM speed and you can run my RAM at 1066 with manual timings   
d)  both b and c
I know.  I'm referring to that this one says "designed for motherboards with four memory channels"  while this following one "1333c9" says "Designed for use with all DDR3 motherboards with two memory channels".  So the question is,
Does Memory designed for four memory channels:
a) work on two memory channel motherboards as well as four channel motherboards (will work on mine) or
b) work only on four channel boards (will not work on mine)?
I understand, but they both run 9-9-9-24 1333, except mine could run faster, which I don't need.I'm happy with the 4GB I have.  My biggest goal now is running my same 4 GB RAM with a 333 FSB CPU at any RAM speed that doesn't require overclocking and buying additional cooling equipment.  If I can't have that, I'll buy 1066 RAM and use the 800 CPU.

With a 333x4 FSB processor, the RAM will default to 1333 MHz (2:1 DRAM ratio).
If you want only 4GB RAM, that 4GB module should work fine at 1333MHz.

If you are an overclocker ( ;D ), until you buy a better CPU, try the following:
- raise the FSB to 233 MHz
- set the DRAM ratio to 2:1, the timings to 7-7-7-20 and the DRAM voltage around 1.55V
(so the memory will run at 933 MHz)
- see if you can boot up
- if you can, perform a few tests and check out the system stability.
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
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OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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itorres008, keep in mind that it may not be a CPU issue for why your Corsair CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B doesn't work. The module may simply not be compatible with the G41M-P26 MB.
Oh, yes. Definitely, it could be a combination of things and that's why I ask all these questions.  Since, Remus has been so kind to answer.  I don't want to buy parts only to find out things were not going to work together anyhow. 

My current problem is too slow a CPU FSB and too fast RAM speed to run together on this board.  There was a time when you could use faster RAM than you need, and it would down clock automatically.   Now, I must select between the 4 options I described before, only using theoretical knowledge.  If I had a 1333 FSB CPU, a 1066 RAM, and an 800 RAM I would have tested all options and be done in a couple of hours.

If you read my post before this one you can see where it's narrowed down to a couple of options.  I'm trying to refine Remus' prediction of  the "chances" of my RAM working with the FSB 1333 (as there are three possibilities).  If we're pretty sure it would work, I get the CPU.  If we're not too sure, I'll get some other RAM and keep my same CPU.
Quote
Before I put my current Corsair modules on the G41M-P33, I tried the Kingston HyperX khx16c9b1rk2/8x kit which would default to 1333MHz when installed (they go to 1600 MHz with XMP enabled) and even with the FSB raised to 333MHz they didn't work, the PC would beep a few times and kept restarting.
Those are similar specs as mine.  And I can hypothesize why they fail, but I need an expert to tell me. (If we don't have the parts, we can only speculate and ask)
- These DIMMS run at 1333, the board supposedly goes up to only 1066 because of the G41 chipset, so that's probably why the board specs say 1333 (OC).  My mobo is a P26, but I believe yours must say the same.  I suspect the RAM speed only goes to 1066 in the BIOS and then we would have to overclock the CPU to get to 1333
- Then, can we run them at 1066 avoiding overclocking, getting better cooling solutions, etc?  If I had the CPU, I'd test it, but I'm not going to buy a CPU just to test - so, we theorize.  :-))
- The other option I have is getting 800 or 1066 RAM for the CPU I have.  The 800 costs $78, the 1066 around $25.  That's why I ask if I can run the 1066 at 800.  :-))  If I can't, instead of buying a 800 DIMM I'd rather buy a 1333 FSB CPU and RAM for it, which may still be cheaper and a faster system.
- another consideration is the RAM "made for two or four channel motherboards".  By reading that, it is not obvious if RAM made for four channel boards happily works on two channels.  I don't know if running on four channel boards is an absolute requirement or a nice option.
- there's also the low/high density issue
So, many variables.

But, the problem is not having a shop with spare parts to swap and test. :undecided:
Quote
Even if you buy a CPU with 333MHz FSB, your Corsair CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B may still not work.
Right, that's why ask about the "chances" of that working.  Although, I could buy the CPU and if it doesn't work, then get compatible RAM, and keep the Vengeance for future use.  Or if I knew for sure it wont work, I'd just get RAM for the 800 FSB CPU.  Eventually out of this I will get two systems.  But I can't buy all the parts now. An advantage of getting some RAM for the current CPU is that the Vengeance RAM can be used to build an i3/i5/i7 or higher system later and keep this system for light use.

Well, we'll see.  Thanks for your interest and help.
Logged
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MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
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itorres008Topic starter

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With a 333x4 FSB processor, the RAM will default to 1333 MHz (2:1 DRAM ratio).
If you want only 4GB RAM, that 4GB module should work fine at 1333MHz.
Well, that's something that sounds good.  When you say "if you only want 4 GB" I know what you're implying, from what you wrote before.

How will it show 1333 RAM speed if these specs for G41 chipset  http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/mainstream-chipsets/g41-express-chipset.html say "Dual-Channel DDR3 memory support:    Delivers up to 17 GB/s (DDR3 1066 dual 8.5 GB/s) of bandwidth and 4 GB maximum supported memory size"?
And motherboard specs says RAM 1333 (OC),  Doesn't 1333 need overclocking in this MOBO?

Quote
If you are an overclocker ( ;D ), until you buy a better CPU, try the following:
- raise the FSB to 233 MHz
- set the DRAM ratio to 2:1, the timings to 7-7-7-20 and the DRAM voltage around 1.55V
(so the memory will run at 933 MHz)
- see if you can boot up
- if you can, perform a few tests and check out the system stability.
Whoa!  Can this be done with stock heatsink and fan?  :shocked:  I'm not an over-clocker, but I can try...something I wouldn't know is how far speed and heat can be raised and be safe.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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1. How will it show 1333 RAM speed if these specs for G41 chipset  http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/mainstream-chipsets/g41-express-chipset.html say "Dual-Channel DDR3 memory support:    Delivers up to 17 GB/s (DDR3 1066 dual 8.5 GB/s) of bandwidth and 4 GB maximum supported memory size"?
And motherboard specs says RAM 1333 (OC),  Doesn't 1333 need overclocking in this MOBO?

2. Whoa!  Can this be done with stock heatsink and fan?  :shocked:  I'm not an over-clocker, but I can try...something I wouldn't know is how far speed and heat can be raised and be safe.

1. See again the MSI statement:
Supports two unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 800/1066/1333* (OC) DRAM, 8GB Max
So yes, with DDR3-1333 you will overclock the northbridge.
But as I stated before, with a proper CPU you have big chances to work (stable).
 :grin:

2. in case of decent ambient temperature (less than 24°C) and good case airflow, the stock cooler should be enough for 933MHz.
Just give it a shot and see how (if) it works.
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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1. See again the MSI statement:
Supports two unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 800/1066/1333* (OC) DRAM, 8GB Max
So yes, with DDR3-1333 you will overclock the northbridge.
But as I stated before, with a proper CPU you have big chances to work (stable).
The bus will run at 1333 automatically and thus we just call it overclocked,  or
Do I manually need to increase Clock on the BIOS or increase some voltage?

I'll read up on overclocking, because I don't know if we need to raise CLK rate, raise Voltages, what temperature limits are, etc.
Quote
2. in case of decent ambient temperature (less than 24°C) and good case airflow, the stock cooler should be enough for 933MHz.
Just give it a shot and see how (if) it works.
My ambient temperature is 30°C indoors at 9 pm.  :-))  I did a Prime Test on this system and CPU temp went to mid to high 60°Cs, but I read it throttles back on it's own to avoid overheating.  I think CPU takes up to 72-3°C.  I'll do some reading before trying.

Thanks.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
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OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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1) The bus will run at 1333 automatically and thus we just call it overclocked,  or
Do I manually need to increase Clock on the BIOS or increase some voltage?

2) I'll read up on overclocking, because I don't know if we need to raise CLK rate, raise Voltages, what temperature limits are, etc.My ambient temperature is 30°C indoors at 9 pm.  :-))  I did a Prime Test on this system and CPU temp went to mid to high 60°Cs, but I read it throttles back on it's own to avoid overheating.  I think CPU takes up to 72-3°C.  I'll do some reading before trying.

1) With a FSB 333 processor, DDR3-1333 and BIOS default settings, the bus will run at 1333 automatically.
However, in case of stability issues, you might need to raise the northbridge (and the memory) voltage a little bit.

2) to raise the FSB is not a good idea :grin: , but this test might help you to decide if you keep the current processor or not.
If it fails at 933Mhz, I don't see any reason to keep it.
As I said from the very beginning, a FSB 1333 processor is your best option.

Also, never bet on CPU throttling!
Yes, it throttles to avoid overheating, but it gets damage if you run it at high temperatures all the time.
For Intel E5700, Tcase is 74.1°C
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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1) With a FSB 333 processor, DDR3-1333 and BIOS default settings, the bus will run at 1333 automatically.
However, in case of stability issues, you might need to raise the northbridge (and the memory) voltage a little bit.
OK, that's an important one to know.  An article I'm reading just spoke about that, that voltage would increase stability.
Quote
2) to raise the FSB is not a good idea :grin: , but this test might help you to decide if you keep the current processor or not.
If it fails at 933Mhz, I don't see any reason to keep it.
As I said from the very beginning, a FSB 1333 processor is your best option.
:yes: Yes, Remus, as I've said that's my first option, no doubt.  I've just been making sure this RAM will work with the 1333 setup.  Because if it didn't, and then had to buy RAM anyway I'd waste the old processor.  If I suspected the current RAM were not to work with the 1333 CPU, I would buy RAM for the 800 CPU and save the current RAM for a future system buid with a Sandy Bridge CPU and MOBO.  :-))
Quote
Also, never bet on CPU throttling!
Ok.
Quote
Yes, it throttles to avoid overheating, but it gets damage if you run it at high temperatures all the time.
For Intel E5700, Tcase is 74.1°C
Yes, I read the E5700 specs, the hardest part is that they don't just label it "Max safe operation temperature."  :nooo:
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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Quote
Yes, it throttles to avoid overheating, but it gets damage if you run it at high temperatures all the time.
For Intel E5700, Tcase is 74.1°C

Yes, I read the E5700 specs, the hardest part is that they don't just label it "Max safe operation temperature."

Tcase is max temperature at the case/heatspreader level.
Tjunct is the max temperature at the core level.
Tjunc = Tcase + 10...15°C.

However, you need to keep the CPU in the safe zone.
And that's 15-20°C below Tjunct.
The bottom line: no more than 70°C in CoreTemp.
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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If you are an overclocker ( ;D ), until you buy a better CPU, try the following:
- raise the FSB to 233 MHz
- set the DRAM ratio to 2:1, the timings to 7-7-7-20 and the DRAM voltage around 1.55V
(so the memory will run at 933 MHz)
- see if you can boot up
- if you can, perform a few tests and check out the system stability.
Remus, I tried this and I saw no option for changing voltages to RAM or CPU on setup.  As I expected maybe less than a minute before the PC would shut down/reset, I set the FSB and RAM timings, Saved and reboot. 

Booted to Setup again, to look a bit more for voltage adjustments but there are none.  As I was doing it, after half a minute maybe, it reset.  Power LED on, HDD LED on, CD-drive access LED flashing as if it were seeking.  Maybe it would reset again after a few seconfs and stay in that loop.  [Note: I have tested without drives and the result is the same.  I connected the drives to go into Windows and run some utilities when it has given me time.]

So, I'll get a 333 FSB CPU and see what happens.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

itorres008Topic starter

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I got a 1333 FSB Quad Core CPU - Q8200, but I have the same symptoms and no settings combination works.

I have 3 basic things I can do in combination after Clearing CMOS:
1. Load Fail Safe Setting | Load Optimized Setting | Not use any of those options
2. Let RAM Freq at 1066 rate Default or run at 1333 Rate by setting RAM multiplier manually to 2:1  to get 667 RAM freq out of 333 Bus clock freq
3. Set RAM timings to Auto (supposedly SPD is read from DIMM) or entering them manually
3a. If manually I can set timing 1N or 2N,  I'm using 2N initially.

This is 12 possibilities of which I'm first trying Optimized settings, which I don't know what they are but I understand are usually provided by the MOBO manufacturer.  Then I'll try the four combinations of 1066 or 1333 speed with Auto (SPD) or Manually set timings.

I can't test this quickly because when PC hangs I cannot reset CMOS quickly, I have to leave it a few hours or overnight.  I try Clear Jumper, removing battery, unplugging PSU, pressing On switch with PSU Off and unplugged to release any stored charge, but none work immediately.

So far I've tried:
Not loading any default settings, 1066 default and Auto - don't work.
Loading Optimized setting, 1066 default and Auto - don't work
Optimized settings, 1333, Manually entering SPD values - don't work.
** Theres a problem with entering SPD values manually in that the tRFC value is supposed to be 104, but the max CLK available on setup screen drop-down for tRFC is 78.  So, I leave that as Auto. 
It's curious that 104:78 is 4:3.  So, I wonder if the BIOS or chipset are miscalculating CLKs according to RAM clock frequency or not identifying the correct RAM clock frequency or somehow not supporting the RAM speed. 

In my testing if I set all values manually and leave tRFC as Auto.  Is this a problem?

Should I just set the 9-9-9-24 and leave everything else as Auto?

I'm testing using 2N timing. Should 2N or 1N timing be more close to working?

It seems this isn't going to work no matter what.  My next decision is to get Low Density RAM at 1066 or 1333 rate (which is overclocking RAM on this MOBO).  I feel inclined to not risk trying to overclock it, and just get 1066.  :undecided:

Any information on questions above or suggestions appreciated.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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I got a 1333 FSB Quad Core CPU - Q8200, but I have the same symptoms and no settings combination works.

So it fails with that CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B module?
Can you borrow a 2GB DDR3-1333 module from a friend or something?
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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So it fails with that CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B module?
Can you borrow a 2GB DDR3-1333 module from a friend or something?
Hi Remus,
No. Since the beginning I've asked 3 people and none have that type of memory. 

Do you have any theories I could look into by doing research (since I don't have ways to test)?
Any ideas about what I asked, or none of that is important as it should just work on default settings without much trouble?

I think the problem is because it is a high-density DIMM. (according to Corsair, I can't see under the heat sink).  That's why I asked about being to tell if the system supports high-density DIMMS from MOBO or Chipset specs, but no-one had an answer.

I see some generic chips I can order from China made with the tested DRAM ICs, but it may be expensive with the shipping and dealing with people so far away.  I also see low-density 1066 or 1333 4GB for around $36 which I can order. 
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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Booted to Setup again, to look a bit more for voltage adjustments but there are none.

Do you have any theories I could look into by doing research (since I don't have ways to test)?

As I told you before, I've tested 2 x 4GB DDR3-1066 and DDR3-1333 (both of them Corsair kits) on MSI G41M-P33.
With very good results!
However, for DDR3-1333 I had to raise the DRAM and the NB voltage a little bit in order to get stability.
Here is the Cell Menu of G41M-P33 (Core 2 Duo E8200 + 2x4GB DDR3-1066):



Don't you have the same screen on G41M-P26?
If you cannot change those voltages, you won't be able to use DDR3-1333 modules.
Simply because they always default to 1333MHz (not to 1066).
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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As I told you before, I've tested 2 x 4GB DDR3-1066 and DDR3-1333 (both of them Corsair kits) on MSI G41M-P33.
With very good results!
However, for DDR3-1333 I had to raise the DRAM and the NB voltage a little bit in order to get stability.
Here is the Cell Menu of G41M-P33 (Core 2 Duo E8200 + 2x4GB DDR3-1066):
I don't precisely remember you telling me that you had tested those Corsair modules.  I'll re-read thread to see what I may have missed.  (I just saw you had said something about running RAM at 1066 with 7-7-7-20 timings.)
Were those Corsair kits you tested high-density?
Quote
Don't you have the same screen on G41M-P26?
If you cannot change those voltages, you won't be able to use DDR3-1333 modules.
Simply because they always default to 1333MHz (not to 1066).
I don't have those three fields for changing voltages.  Could they depend on some other option being enabled on setup?  It seems not, some people complain this board is not over-clocking friendly.

I don't understand "they always default to 1333", since the RAM freq defaults to 1066 and can be set to 1333, and the RAM timings can be adjusted.

And can't DDR3-1333 RAM be forced to run at 1066? (I actually thought it would work at the lower speed automatically)
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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1) I don't precisely remember you telling me that you had tested those Corsair modules.  I'll re-read thread to see what I may have missed.  (I just saw you had said something about running RAM at 1066 with 7-7-7-20 timings.)
Were those Corsair kits you tested high-density?I don't have those three fields for changing voltages.  Could they depend on some other option being enabled on setup?  It seems not, some people complain this board is not over-clocking friendly.

2) I don't understand "they always default to 1333", since the RAM freq defaults to 1066 and can be set to 1333, and the RAM timings can be adjusted.
And can't DDR3-1333 RAM be forced to run at 1066? (I actually thought it would work at the lower speed automatically)

1)
Quote from: RemusM
Yes, the 4GB high-density modules are supported.
But DDR3-1066 only.
8GB DDR3-1333 on this motherboard is a russian roulette.

For example, these modules run just fine on MSI G41M-P33 (with a FSB 333x4 processor):
http://www.corsair.com/cmx8gx3m2a1333c9.html

2) Your 4GB module, rated at 1600 defaults at 1333.
Most of the DDR3-1333 modules will default at 1333MHz, 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V
Some modules rated at 1333MHz will default at 1066MHz, 7-7-7-20 at 1.5V

How can you make a DDR3-1333 module to run at 1066MHz, if you cannot change those voltages and you get a freeze in 30 seconds?  :think:
 :grin:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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1)
2) Your 4GB module, rated at 1600 defaults at 1333.
Most of the DDR3-1333 modules will default at 1333MHz, 9-9-9-24 at 1.5V
Some modules rated at 1333MHz will default at 1066MHz, 7-7-7-20 at 1.5V

How can you make a DDR3-1333 module to run at 1066MHz, if you cannot change those voltages and you get a freeze in 30 seconds?
I don't know, that's why I'm asking if it can be done.  Older generations of RAM would run automatically at the speed the MB supported if the DIMM was faster, so I wouldn't find strange that a DIMM could run at a lower speed.  Perhaps that was when RAM was asynchronous.  I also thought that changing voltage would be needed to Over-clock, but not to run slower.  I don't know all the intricacies of voltage - frequency relationship.

Well, the MB specs say it supports RAM running at 1333 (OC), but it doesn't have voltage control.  So, besides changing the multiplier to 2:1, how do they expect it to work?

(Interesting that MSI has recently removed the pages for this MOBO from their site. eg.http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=CPUSupport )
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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I don't know, that's why I'm asking if it can be done.  Older generations of RAM would run automatically at the speed the MB supported if the DIMM was faster, so I wouldn't find strange that a DIMM could run at a lower speed.  Perhaps that was when RAM was asynchronous.  I also thought that changing voltage would be needed to Over-clock, but not to run slower.  I don't know all the intricacies of voltage - frequency relationship.

Well, the MB specs say it supports RAM running at 1333 (OC), but it doesn't have voltage control.  So, besides changing the multiplier to 2:1, how do they expect it to work?

(Interesting that MSI has recently removed the pages for this MOBO from their site. eg.http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=CPUSupport )

Yes, all the native DDR3-1333 modules can run stable at 1066MHz (with 7-7-7-20 and 1.5V)
But never by default!
You need to manually perform those changes.

You have 3 big problems:
1) DDR3-1333 is not officially supported on this mobo
2) your system is freezing in 30 seconds no matter what you do.
3) you cannot change the DRAM and NB voltages.

Obviously, G41M-P33 is better than G41M-P26, but the main question is "did MSI remove those voltage regulators (controllers) on P26"?
Or it's only a poor (misfeatured) BIOS?

In my opinion, all those problems are reduced to a single one:
your computer is freezing because the DRAM and/or NB voltage is too low.
Unfortunately, I cannot see any solution for G41M-P26
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

itorres008Topic starter

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Yes, all the native DDR3-1333 modules can run stable at 1066MHz (with 7-7-7-20 and 1.5V)
But never by default!
You need to manually perform those changes.
"all the native DDR3-1333 modules can run stable at 1066MHz (with 7-7-7-20 and 1.5V)"
If that held true, then my system should work by setting it like that, but I just tried it and it didn't.  :sad: After a few minutes on setup utility I boot to Memtest CD and it ran for approx 10-15 minutes (I watched for 5 min and left it),  Correctly reported 1066 and 7-7-7-20.
Quote
You have 3 big problems:
1) DDR3-1333 is not officially supported on this mobo
2) your system is freezing in 30 seconds no matter what you do.
3) you cannot change the DRAM and NB voltages.
1. Ok, I'd be happy if this RAM could run at 1066, and I didn't have to spend more money.
2. No, when I get it to boot after clearing CMOS I usually have time to set up things.
3. Yes.  But if I wan't to run at 1066 I shouldn't need to change/increase voltage, no?
Quote
Obviously, G41M-P33 is better than G41M-P26, but the main question is "did MSI remove those voltage regulators (controllers) on P26"?
Or it's only a poor (misfeatured) BIOS?
I can try to research that.  It will be difficult to find an answer.  I suspect MSI didn't provide the settings, meaning this to be just a basic board
Quote
In my opinion, all those problems are reduced to a single one:
your computer is freezing because the DRAM and/or NB voltage is too low.
Unfortunately, I cannot see any solution for G41M-P26
Ok, not at 1333m but shouldn't it run at 1066 (7-7-7-20)?

Well, I'll complete testing all the possible configurations (except varying timings, since I'm not familiar with that).  If nothing works I'll order some low-density 1066 4GB non-ecc DIMM.
Logged
Board: MSI G41M-P26
Bios: AMI Version 26.11 2012-12-10
VGA: Integrated
PSU: Coolmax I-500 500W (34a 12v rail)
CPU: Q8200 Intel Core2 Quad (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) LGA 775, Max TDP-95 W
MEM: Corsair Vengeance — 4GB Single Module DDR3 Memory Kit (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9B) SPD 9-9-9-24
COOLER: Stock for CPU
OC: None
OS: Windows XP, but just testing POST to setup or boot to Memtest86

RemusM

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If nothing works I'll order some low-density 1066 4GB non-ecc DIMM.

A 4GB DDR3-1066 module might run stable (or not) if the DRAM voltage is less than 1.5V

In the current situation ("locked" low voltages) I see only 2 solutions:
1) 2 x 2GB DDR3-1066 (they will run stable even with 1.45V)
2) a new PSU (it might "improve" those voltages)
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!

RemusM

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(Interesting that MSI has recently removed the pages for this MOBO from their site. eg.http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41M-P26.html#/?div=CPUSupport )

I forgot to ask you something important: what is the current version of your BIOS?
26.10 and 26.11 include "Improved memory compatibility" updates.
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/G41MP26.html#/?div=BIOS
 :beerchug:
Logged

Mainboard: HC85
Processor: Zilog Z80 3.5MHz
System RAM: 48KB
Video RAM: 16KB (only 6912 bytes are used for Pixel Shader effects)
Video Card: integrated (16 colors)
PSU: 5V/3A
OS: BASIC Spectrum Sinclair

note: NO overclocking!
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