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Author Topic: 970m Color Options  (Read 3093 times)

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williamdzialoTopic starter

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970m Color Options
« on: 20-October-15, 01:17:49 »

Just recently bought the GE72 2QF notebook and noticed the screen calibration is way off. Unlike the desktop version of Nvidia control panel, there are no color options for the 970m. MSI uses the True Color software but it NEVER works with games and the screen defaults to the factory set colors when fullscreen.

Is there any way to get a solid and reliable color calibration thing going on with this setup? I do a lot of color sensitive work as well and any help would be awesome. Thanks!
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crimsomred

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Re: 970m Color Options
« Reply #1 on: 20-October-15, 11:51:10 »

Hi.  Try this.
MSI True Color has a option that call "App Sync" in "Tools" menu.  Select your application, and what color profile you use.
Cheers :)
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david

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Re: 970m Color Options
« Reply #2 on: 21-October-15, 20:41:01 »

Just recently bought the GE72 2QF notebook and noticed the screen calibration is way off. Unlike the desktop version of Nvidia control panel, there are no color options for the 970m. MSI uses the True Color software but it NEVER works with games and the screen defaults to the factory set colors when fullscreen.

Is there any way to get a solid and reliable color calibration thing going on with this setup? I do a lot of color sensitive work as well and any help would be awesome. Thanks!

Hi williamdzialo,

There is only one truly "solid and reliable" way to do color calibration---get a colorimeter and do it yourself! All True Color can do is offer you various "presets" to configure your display in a general way. True Color cannot really "calibrate" your display without a colorimeter (or other photospectrometer) to measure your monitor. Why? Because no display is static. They change with time and conditions. This means they need to be periodically recalibrated. Even if MSI actually warmed up every display on its assembly line (usually requires 20-30 minutes) and measured and calibrated it, that factory calibration would only be accurate for a few months. And if the operating environment (temperature, humidity, ambient light, etc) where your notebook is used is significantly different than MSI's calibration environment, their "calibration" would never be correct!

So, if you really want "calibration" you have to do it yourself. However, if all you want to do is make "relative" adjustments to the display for different applications, then True Color would be a fine solution---IF it would actually work. Unfortunately, I've read too many reports from users that are having problems to believe that it works very well.

If you want to calibrate, here are some choices:

X-Rite (Pantone)
The best consumer and low-end pro colorimeters are made by X-Rite. Here are the most common models:

1 - ColorMunki Smile (CMUNSML) --- retails for US$99 and is designed for beginners.
2 - ColorMunki Display (CMUNDIS) --- retails for US$189, is faster and is designed for intermediate users.
3 - i1Display Pro (EODIS3) --- retails for US$279, is faster and is designed for advanced and pro users (I use this model).

One of the unique features of X-Rite models---especially the more advanced models---is their dynamic adjustment of the display calibration to the ambient light in your work environment. No one else does it as good as them. If you are forced to work near a window and daylight changes in your workspace throughtout the day, a ColorMunki Display or i1Display Pro can dynamically change the calibration of your monitor to compensate for the changing ambient light. The ColorMunki Display does this only for luminance but the i1Diplay Pro can do it for both luminance and color. This kind of dynamic adjustment is not ideal---the ideal is to locate your display in a controlled environment where the ambient light level does not change---but dynamic adjustment is a necessary "evil" that can transform an "impossible" environment into a "workable" one.

Datacolor
Datacolor has been creating colorimeters about as long as X-Rite. But, until recently, their hardware hasn't been as good. Their biggest weakness has been with low-light sensitivity and calibration of darker colors. However, their latest hardware, the Spyder5 colorimeter, has closed the gap quite a bit. X-Rite still makes the best but the Spyder5 is probably at least as good if not better than a ColorMunki. Here are the most common Datacolor models:

1 - Spyder5Express (S5X100) --- retails for US$129 and is designed for beginners.
2 - Spyder5Pro (S5P100) --- retails for US$189 and is designed for intermediate users to light pros.
3 - Spyder5Elite (S5EL100) --- retails for US$279 and is designed for advanced and pro users.

Now for a secret: Datacolor provides the exact same colorimeter hardware (the Spyder5 colorimeter) with most of their models. What you really pay more for when you buy a more expensive Datacolor model is for more advanced software. But an X-Rite i1Display Pro colorimeter is still superior optically and sensor-wise to a Spyder5 colorimeter. So, if you want the best hardware at an advanced user or pro level, X-Rite is the best choice.

Now for a second secret: Some users who want a good colorimeter with pro-grade software but don't have a "pro" budget buy the Datacolor Spyder5Express just to get the Spyder5 colorimeter. Then they get a copy of two open-source programs for their software. They get the Argyll Color Management System and the dispcalGUI software to control it. The Argyll CMS is the engine that drives the measurement and calibration. The dispcalGUI is the front-end software that provides the user interface to control the engine and provide input and output. And the dispcalGUI is available for Windows, OS-X and Linux.

By the way, the Argyll CMS + dispcalGUI solution also works great with the X-Rite colorimeters, too. But I find the X-Rite software to be pretty decent on its own. I've used either Pantone or X-Rite colorimeters for several decades. So my experience with color calibration is decent.

Kind regards, David
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GT80 2QE Titan SLI-001 • i7-4720HQ • 32 GB DRAM • 2 x GTX 980M in SLI • 16 GB VRAM (8 GB/GPU) • 2 x 512 GB Micron M600 M.2 SSDs in mirrored Recovery array • 2 x 128 Toshiba M.2 SSDs in mirrored RAID-1 • 2 TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD • MiniPro RAID V2 external case w/ 2 x 2 TB Seagate ST2000LM003 HD in RAID-1 for local backup • 40" Philips 4K UHD BDM4065UC monitor • Logitech G910 Orion Spectrum RGB external keyboard • Logitech G903 Lightspeed wireless mouse w/ Powerplay charging mousepad • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit • Adobe Master Collection CS6

gregg.plummer

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Re: 970m Color Options
« Reply #3 on: 20-June-18, 13:57:55 »

Hi williamdzialo,

There is only one truly "solid and reliable" way to do color calibration---get a colorimeter and do it yourself! All True Color can do is offer you various "presets" to configure your display in a general way. True Color cannot really "calibrate" your display without a colorimeter (or other photospectrometer) to measure your monitor. Why? Because no display is static. They change with time and conditions. This means they need to be periodically recalibrated. Even if MSI actually warmed up every display on its assembly line (usually requires 20-30 minutes) and measured and calibrated it, that factory calibration would only be accurate for a few months. And if the operating environment (temperature, humidity, ambient light, etc) where your notebook is used is significantly different than MSI's calibration environment, their "calibration" would never be correct!

So, if you really want "calibration" you have to do it yourself. However, if all you want to do is make "relative" adjustments to the display for different applications, then True Color would be a fine solution---IF it would actually work. Unfortunately, I've read too many reports from users that are having problems to believe that it works very well.

If you want to calibrate, here are some choices:

X-Rite (Pantone)
The best consumer and low-end pro colorimeters are made by X-Rite. Here are the most common models:

1 - ColorMunki Smile (CMUNSML) --- retails for US$99 and is designed for beginners.
2 - ColorMunki Display (CMUNDIS) --- retails for US$189, is faster and is designed for intermediate users.
3 - i1Display Pro (EODIS3) --- retails for US$279, is faster and is designed for advanced and pro users (I use this model).

One of the unique features of X-Rite models---especially the more advanced models---is their dynamic adjustment of the display calibration to the ambient light in your work environment. No one else does it as good as them. If you are forced to work near a window and daylight changes in your workspace throughtout the day, a ColorMunki Display or i1Display Pro can dynamically change the calibration of your monitor to compensate for the changing ambient light. The ColorMunki Display does this only for luminance but the i1Diplay Pro can do it for both luminance and color. This kind of dynamic adjustment is not ideal---the ideal is to locate your display in a controlled environment where the ambient light level does not change---but dynamic adjustment is a necessary "evil" that can transform an "impossible" environment into a "workable" one.

Datacolor
Datacolor has been creating colorimeters about as long as X-Rite. But, until recently, their hardware hasn't been as good. Their biggest weakness has been with low-light sensitivity and calibration of darker colors. However, their latest hardware, the Spyder5 colorimeter, has closed the gap quite a bit. X-Rite still makes the best but the Spyder5 is probably at least as good if not better than a ColorMunki. Here are the most common Datacolor models:

1 - Spyder5Express (S5X100) --- retails for US$129 and is designed for beginners.
2 - Spyder5Pro (S5P100) --- retails for US$189 and is designed for intermediate users to light pros.
3 - Spyder5Elite (S5EL100) --- retails for US$279 and is designed for advanced and pro users.

Now for a secret: Datacolor provides the exact same colorimeter hardware (the Spyder5 colorimeter) with most of their models. What you really pay more for when you buy a more expensive Datacolor model is for more advanced software. But an X-Rite i1Display Pro colorimeter is still superior optically and sensor-wise to a Spyder5 colorimeter. So, if you want the best hardware at an advanced user or pro level, X-Rite is the best choice.

Now for a second secret: Some users who want a good colorimeter with pro-grade software but don't have a "pro" budget buy the Datacolor Spyder5Express just to get the Spyder5 colorimeter. Then they get a copy of two open-source programs for their software. They get the Argyll Color Management System and the dispcalGUI software to control it. The Argyll CMS is the engine that drives the measurement and calibration. The dispcalGUI is the front-end software that provides the user interface to control the engine and provide input and output. And the dispcalGUI is available for Windows, OS-X and Linux.

By the way, the Argyll CMS + dispcalGUI solution also works great with the X-Rite colorimeters, too. But I find the X-Rite software to be pretty decent on its own. I've used either Pantone or X-Rite colorimeters for several decades. So my experience with color calibration is decent.

Kind regards, David

I realize this was posted long ago but I'm hoping David will see this and respond.

I have an MSI GS73VR 6RF STEALTH PRO laptop with 4K display. The manufacturer (AU Optronics) claims this LCD panel is capable of displaying 100% Adobe RGB color gamut. The Truecolor app also shows a mode setting for Adobe RGB. I'm not sure if using this app to switch from sRGB to Adobe RGB actually increases the color gamut or if it just changes to a different profile and adjusts brightness, contrast, gamma and color temperatures. The AppSync feature doesn't seem to be working, so I just leave it set to Adobe RGB. I plan to abandon this app and buy a colorimeter to manage my display for photo editing in Lightroom and Photoshop.

Since my laptop has 2 GPUs - the integrated Intel GPU and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060, I have a utility which I use to assign specific apps to the GPUs. All of my photo related apps (Lightroom, Photoshop, Topaz, etc.) are set to the NVIDIA GPU. 

When I use a colorimeter, will I be able to make adjustments for a specific GPU? I assume I'll need to assign the calibration software to the NVIDIA GPU before making appropriate adjustments.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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david

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Re: 970m Color Options
« Reply #4 on: 20-June-18, 21:35:06 »

Hi gregg.plummer,

In the future, you should not dig up an old thread like this unless it is 100% on topic for your post. Your post is not. Next time create a new thread. And don't think that past participants of a thread will be aware that an old thread is activated again. Many users like me have disabled all notifications. The only notifications I receive are those that an admin or moderator send directly to me. And I do not accept any PMs from members. Remember, this is a volunteer user-to-user forum and we users can choose and pick what we want to respond to, if anything. Therefore, the only thing that brings a post to my attention is that it is new. Period.

The fact that you chose a 4K notebook display to use with Photoshop sounds crazy to me. Good luck with your vision. The smallest display that I would use for Photoshop at a 4K resolution is an external 40-inch. That's what I'm using now and I plan to upgrade to 55 or 65-inch in the near future.

... I have an MSI GS73VR 6RF STEALTH PRO laptop with 4K display. The manufacturer (AU Optronics) claims this LCD panel is capable of displaying 100% Adobe RGB color gamut. ...

AU Optronics either doesn't understand the scope of the gamut of the Adobe RGB (aRGB) color space or they are lying. As far as I'm aware, no one makes an LCD panel and backlight for a notebook that can achieve 100% aRGB. The high-end professional LCD monitors made for precise color work cannot even do that (they can only get close like 98%). Many marketers are ignorant on this subject (though they may think otherwise). They confuse aRGB with sRGB. There are some really good LCD panels and backlights that can achieve 100% sRGB when carefully calibrated. But the gamut of the sRGB color space is different and much smaller than aRGB. To achieve a high aRGB score with LCD, you have to have a purpose-built panel and backlight for it and they're very expensive. Nowadays, I wouldn't waste my time trying to achieve a high aRGB capability with a backlit LCD---I'd probably choose an emissive technology like OLED.

Quote from: gregg.plummer
... When I use a colorimeter, will I be able to make adjustments for a specific GPU? I assume I'll need to assign the calibration software to the NVIDIA GPU before making appropriate adjustments. ...

The answer is probably "no". You're using Win 10 and I don't use it. I'm staying with Win 7 until the end, then I'm abandoning Microsoft Windows. Under Win 7 (and Win 8.x, I believe), the color profile created by calibration software is used by Windows at its system level. As far as I know, it's ignorant as to whether a display is being driven by an iGPU or dGPU. So there is no way to automatically change/select profiles based on which GPU is rendering the image for a display. And there's no way to assign a profile to a specific GPU. If the iGPU and dGPU do not drive the display the same and you need a different calibration for each, you'll have to create them manually and enable them manually each time you switch GPUs. That would be a mess because most MSI gaming notebooks use NVidia Optimus and it controls the switch---not the user. But, again, I don't use Win 10 and it may have some new features in this area. I just don't know.

Personally, I would not tolerate a multi GPU system that I could not control completely and Optimus does not allow absolute user control. So you will not see me using any computer for important color work that requires Optimus. It will override user preference settings for applications whenever it thinks it needs to. And it's my understanding that it's still buggy. If you want to do serious color work with a notebook you need one that you can lock down the GPU choice and the only MSI gaming notebooks that allow that are the few top-of-the-line GT models that support dual dGPU in SLI. NVidia Optimus is incompatible with SLI so these systems (like my GT80 2QE Titan which has two NVidia GTX 980m in SLI) use a hardware switch (the "GPU" button) to control whether the Intel iGPU is used or the dual NVidia 980m dGPUs. Every time you switch the GPU, you must reboot and the deselected GPU system is gone---it doesn't even show up in the Windows Device Manager. This is how desktop motherboards used to work years ago (only with them, you used a BIOS setting to make the switch---but those BIOS settings are not present in MSI gaming notebooks).

Notebooks that use Optimus must have both the iGPU and dGPU on all the time and the iGPU serves as the full-time display controller even when the dGPU is doing the rendering.

There are also other systems in some MSI gaming notebooks which work differently. It's a very confusing mess for users and MSI needs to do a much better job of explaining how each model works because many users are clueless. And even old-timers like me are having a hard time keeping up as things change to accommodate G-Sync (incompatible with the iGPU) and VR.

Kind regards, David
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gregg.plummer

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Re: 970m Color Options
« Reply #5 on: 20-June-18, 23:31:38 »

Thanks for your response.
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